Temp at which meat stops accepting smoke....

[Its_Raw]

Watched a video where the comment was made that meat no longer accepts smoke once the internal temp reaches 158-degrees. Any truth to this? Not to bias your answer, but the same person in the video claimed it took 3-hours to cook ribs to in internal temp of 200-degrees with a temp setting of 250-degrees for the pit.

Thank you!

 

[SmokinEdge]

Meat stops taking in smoke at the stall which is right around 160. Smoke will continue to build on the surface but the smoke ring inside stops growing.

 

[babydocsmoke]

Meat stops taking in smoke at the stall which is right around 160. Smoke will continue to build on the surface but the smoke ring inside stops growing.

So....just for my own education....going really low and really slow up to 160F will result in a bigger smoke ring? And then bumping up the temp on the smoker when you hit that (in theory) would just result in a faster cook, but no change in smoke flavor?

 

[SmokinEdge]

So....just for my own education....going really low and really slow up to 160F will result in a bigger smoke ring? And then bumping up the temp on the smoker when you hit that (in theory) would just result in a faster cook, but no change in smoke flavor?

The smoke ring is an elusive subject itself. Sometimes you get a great smoke ring but not much smoke flavor, other time almost no smoke ring but a deep rich smoke flavor. Smoke will penetrate meat up to the stall, which is where the muscle fibers constrict and squeeze juices out of the meat to the surface. This causes an evaporative effect causing the temp climb to stall, at the same time because juices are flowing out of the meat the smoke can no longer go in or farther in.

The smoke ring is formed from a combination of nitric oxide gas and carbon monoxide gas given off by the burning wood. The levels of these gases is dependent on the wood itself. Which is dependent on the soil the tree grew in, mostly nitrate content of the soil. Which is why fruit woods perform well here with the orchards being fertilized, but that said other woods may be low in nitrates but may give off sufficient quantities of carbon monoxide which will produce the same pink ring. Lots of variables go into formation of smoke rings, fresh air is another big factor. I’m happy to discuss it further if you like. And happy to share what I’ve seen and know.

 

[jcam222]

I'd have to look for it but there is a great article by Meathead on this. Summary of my understanding 1) Smoke ring does stop building around the stall temp. 2) Meat will take on smoke as long as smoke is applied. There is no temp or time where it stops. This means the longer you apply the smokier it is so does impact flavor. (especially true if you keep surface moist) Note that the contention is smoke actually never penetrates much further than 1/8 inch. Nice little experiment cited. The smoke ring on the other hand has zero to do with flavor. Here is a long but great read on the science of smoke. https://amazingribs.com/more-techni...r-setup-and-firing/science-of-wood-and-smoke/

 

[babydocsmoke]

The smoke ring is an elusive subject itself. Sometimes you get a great smoke ring but not much smoke flavor, other time almost no smoke ring but a deep rich smoke flavor. Smoke will penetrate meat up to the stall, which is where the muscle fibers constrict and squeeze juices out of the meat to the surface. This causes an evaporative effect causing the temp climb to stall, at the same time because juices are flowing out of the meat the smoke can no longer go in or farther in.

The smoke ring is formed from a combination of nitric oxide gas and carbon monoxide gas given off by the burning wood. The levels of these gases is dependent on the wood itself. Which is dependent on the soil the tree grew in, mostly nitrate content of the soil. Which is why fruit woods perform well here with the orchards being fertilized, but that said other woods may be low in nitrates but may give off sufficient quantities of carbon monoxide which will produce the same pink ring. Lots of variables go into formation of smoke rings, fresh air is another big factor. I’m happy to discuss it further if you like. And happy to share what I’ve seen and know.

Wonderful info Edge!

I'd have to look for it but there is a great article by Meathead on this. Summary of my understanding 1) Smoke ring does stop building around the stall temp. 2) Meat will take on smoke as long as smoke is applied. There is no temp or time where it stops. This means the longer you apply the smokier it is so does impact flavor. (especially true if you keep surface moist) Note that the contention is smoke actually never penetrates much further than 1/8 inch. Nice little experiment cited. The smoke ring on the other hand has zero to do with flavor. Here is a long but great read on the science of smoke. https://amazingribs.com/more-techni...r-setup-and-firing/science-of-wood-and-smoke/

Thanks guys! Love learning about this stuff!!

 

[paulgeorge]

The smoke ring is an elusive subject itself. Sometimes you get a great smoke ring but not much smoke flavor, other time almost no smoke ring but a deep rich smoke flavor. Smoke will penetrate meat up to the stall, which is where the muscle fibers constrict and squeeze juices out of the meat to the surface. This causes an evaporative effect causing the temp climb to stall, at the same time because juices are flowing out of the meat the smoke can no longer go in or farther in.

The smoke ring is formed from a combination of nitric oxide gas and carbon monoxide gas given off by the burning wood. The levels of these gases is dependent on the wood itself. Which is dependent on the soil the tree grew in, mostly nitrate content of the soil. Which is why fruit woods perform well here with the orchards being fertilized, but that said other woods may be low in nitrates but may give off sufficient quantities of carbon monoxide which will produce the same pink ring. Lots of variables go into formation of smoke rings, fresh air is another big factor. I’m happy to discuss it further if you like. And happy to share what I’ve seen and know. wedding photography Sunshine Coast

Strange question I know but how long does meat accept smoke flavor effectively? If you put a shoulder or brisket on the smoker for 2 hours and then move it to another cooking method (be it oven or something else) that makes for easier maintenance of temps, what would the flavor change be?

I ask because my duo is very difficult to tend for more than a few hours as it uses quite a bit of fuel and I'm thinking about transferring to an oven for the remainder of the time until internal hits desired temp.

I'm saving for a better smoker now so I won't have this problem in the future but until then, this may be my best option.

 

[DougE]

I'd have to look for it but there is a great article by Meathead on this. Summary of my understanding 1) Smoke ring does stop building around the stall temp. 2) Meat will take on smoke as long as smoke is applied. There is no temp or time where it stops. This means the longer you apply the smokier it is so does impact flavor. (especially true if you keep surface moist) Note that the contention is smoke actually never penetrates much further than 1/8 inch. Nice little experiment cited. The smoke ring on the other hand has zero to do with flavor. Here is a long but great read on the science of smoke. https://amazingribs.com/more-techni...r-setup-and-firing/science-of-wood-and-smoke/

Pretty much this. The smoke ring formation stops at around 160°, but the meat will continue to absorb smoke flavor to the point where it is inedible if exposed to smoke long enough.

 

[jcam222]

Strange question I know but how long does meat accept smoke flavor effectively? If you put a shoulder or brisket on the smoker for 2 hours and then move it to another cooking method (be it oven or something else) that makes for easier maintenance of temps, what would the flavor change be?

I ask because my duo is very difficult to tend for more than a few hours as it uses quite a bit of fuel and I'm thinking about transferring to an oven for the remainder of the time until internal hits desired temp.

I'm saving for a better smoker now so I won't have this problem in the future but until then, this may be my best option.

In my opinion if you only do those for a couple hours you lose a ton of smoke flavor. I'd smoke all the way to the stall. Once wrapped you can cook in oven.

 

[Chasdev]

Franklin does a comparison with two briskets, one wrapped at the stall, the other cooked naked, both for 10/12 hours.
The naked brisket developed a much darker and crispier bark.

 

[chef k-dude]

The OP seemed to be referring to ribs, which of course still have a stall but the the real question for me...or answer, is how much smoke do you want? When I first started smoking I followed a lot of the info out there, and here. My wife was a little off-put and said, my ribs for instance were "too smokey". I agreed to some point and also realized everything that isn't tied down doesn't have to be smoked! In my opinion...If everything tastes like smoke, smoking loses its "special event" status.

I try to get a solid "kiss" of smoke. Enough that I can taste it, but not enough that I can taste it for days when I burp!

 

[thirdeye]

...but the the real question for me...or answer, is how much smoke do you want?

That is one of the most asked questions in barbecue circles. People running stick burners will often aim for little or zero visible smoke. The only charcoal cooker that I burn full size chunks in are my drums, and they have huge fire baskets. For everything else I split chunks down, and in my Eggs I layer chips or pellets within the lump to give me gentle smoke for the entire cook.

 

[gmc2003]

You'll get some smoke penetration up until the bark is formed. At that point only the outside of the meat continues taking on smoke. Lightly spritzing the outside will help with the smoke profile as the smoke will stick to the moist surface.

Chris

 

[Fueling Around]

I don't know the answer on when smoke penetration stops or if it even penetrates much at all.
I do know items can be under and over smoked which is an individual taste.

...
The smoke ring is formed from a combination of nitric oxide gas and carbon monoxide gas given off by the burning wood.
...

This is a key point. Creating a lowered oxygen environment will allow other gases to bond with the meat. NO and CO have a much higher bonding affinity than O2 and produce a deeper coloration.
I believe a smoke ring is not part of BBQ judging. thirdeye can you kick in?

 

[thirdeye]

I believe a smoke ring is not part of BBQ judging. thirdeye can you kick in?

In KCBS competitions, judges are taught to (and instructed to) not consider a smoke ring in appearance judging because they can be artificially produced by using things like Cure #1, Tender Quick, celery seed, etc.

Appearance scoring is based solely 'eye appeal', and how appetizing an entry looks. Not considered when scoring are things like small imperfections in the sauce, or the garnish, layout of the box, or how identical the meat samples are.

To give you an idea, here is a brisket that was doctored with Tender Quick.

 

[jcam222]

In KCBS competitions, judges are taught to (and instructed to) not consider a smoke ring in appearance judging because they can be artificially produced by using things like Cure #1, Tender Quick, celery seed, etc.

Appearance scoring is based solely 'eye appeal', and how appetizing an entry looks. Not considered when scoring are things like small imperfections in the sauce, or the garnish, layout of the box, or how identical the meat samples are.

To give you an idea, here is a brisket that was doctored with Tender Quick.
View attachment 710518

I've heard you can do that with cure, I get rings like that in the Lang with no "cheat". I was surprised that they don't judge on box layout or sauce work for visual appeal. I'd say that even if not consciously judged it can play into overall satisfaction perception

 

[thirdeye]

I was surprised that they don't judge on box layout or sauce work for visual appeal. I'd say that even if not consciously judged it can play into overall satisfaction perception

One thing that non-judges don't realize is that most judges spend about 3 or 4 seconds before scoring, and part of that time is verifying that a legal garnish is used. That said... most seasoned cooks will have a well planned arrangement, some even repeat the same arrangement all season.

Now larger issues, like a very gloppy sauce, or a burned sauce, or bland (or dry) looking meat slices without sauce could be reasons for a judge to think the meat is unappetizing. And I've seen it go the other direction too. I've had chicken entries that looked great and would get a top score (9). But the taste and tenderness were way off.

 

[Fueling Around]

...
I've had chicken entries that looked great and would get a top score (9). But the taste and tenderness were way off.

That's been my experience. Been to a few of the professional (?) competitions.
Much of the top rated stuff isn't fit for hog slop in my book.

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

The reaction that causes the smoke ring will stop at a certain point. We know that moisture attracts smoke. The stall ends when the moisture coming to the surface of the meat slows and the evaporative cooling slows down. So I would imagine that you would get less smoke flavor once the surface dries out after the stall.