Smoking Canned Fish

[jackschmidling]

Seems like a simple question but it is impossible to get an answer by searching in the usual way. The statement is hijacked to everything but smoking canned fish.

Living about as far from fresh fish as one can get and loving smoked fish, it occurred to me that the inexpensive canned mackerel from Walmart would be a possible candidate for smoking.

Dinner tonight is a frozen mackerel that I cold smoked yesterday for 20 hours and I have been drooling over it all day.

At about 10 times the price of the canned, it would be a welcome alternative.

Anyone ever do this?

Jack

 

[SmokinEdge]

Never smoked canned fish but it can be done as long as temperature is kept below 40F the whole time.

 

[indaswamp]

^^^^^^...or you add cure #1 to the fish.....

 

[Fueling Around]

Canned fish (or anything canned) is already cooked.
Does smoking cooked food do anything besides perfume the meat?
I don't think you can add nitrite (cure #1) to cooked meat. Correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[Colin1230]

Interesting question, Jack. You must be from Kansas.

 

[indaswamp]

Canned fish (or anything canned) is already cooked.
Does smoking cooked food do anything besides perfume the meat?
I don't think you can add nitrite (cure #1) to cooked meat. Correct me if I'm wrong!

This topic came up when I posted a thread years ago on how to go about smoking boudin and whether cure #1 would be effective or not. Chef jimmyj posted that cure #1 could definitely be used on cooked meat and would protect against botulism. I asked if I should weight just the meat, the meat and liquid, or the meat liquid and rice (the finished boudin)...he told me just to weight the finished boudin add the cure and mix accordingly.

*edit to add:
Now the color would be set from cooking, you would not get the cured reddish pink look, but fish does not have much myoglobin in it anyways...but the NO gas will still diffuse through the meat and offer protection.

 

[Fueling Around]

Interesting.
I realy doubt cooked meat takes in any nitrites. The protein structure is changed.
I really miss Chef Jimmy J as many of the other members that have moved on to after ...

 

[DougE]

Interesting.
I realy doubt cooked meat takes in any nitrites. The protein structure is changed.

Interesting discussion. So you're positing that osmosis would cease to happen with cooked meat? Were that the case, dried meats could not be rehydrated. I agree with inda that you would not get the color we expect to see in cured meats, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the nitrite isn't taken in by the meat, thereby protecting it from botulism during smoking.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Interesting discussion. So you're positing that osmosis would cease to happen with cooked meat? Were that the case, dried meats could not be rehydrated. I agree with inda that you would not get the color we expect to see in cured meats, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the nitrite isn't taken in by the meat, thereby protecting it from botulism during smoking.

This is a good thought. In that the reduction of nitrite into nitric Oxide is thought to be the botulism control and is what links with the hemoglobin and iron molecules to fix the red color of meat, but from what I have researched, nitric oxide has little to no effect on bacteria generally. In that transformation process from nitrite to nitric oxide, another element is produced partially, called nitrous acid and it is thought that this is what actually combats bacteria. So as long as the nitrite converts through interaction with protein, the nitrous acid will be produced as it transforms into nitric oxide and yes botulism will be controlled, however smoking at refrigeration temperature this really is a non issue, the canned meat is sterile and if kept cold while smoking no significant bacteria could grow.

 

[DougE]

So as long as the nitrite converts through interaction with protein, the nitrous oxide will be produced as it transforms into nitric oxide and yes botulism will be controlled,

So you're saying that even cure applied to previously cooked meat would still do its thing, and that's what I was getting at.

 

[SmokinEdge]

So you're saying that even cure applied to previously cooked meat would still do its thing, and that's what I was getting at.

Yes, I believe so. I miss printed in that post and have fixed it, but the element that controls botulism is thought to be nitrous acid, not nitrous oxide. At any rate, as long as the reduction takes place from nitrite into nitric oxide, then nitrous acid will also be produced and neutralize botulism. mixing The cure #1 evenly would be tricky and there are other physical issues, like I said earlier, smoking at refrigeration temperature is the way to go and not worry about adding nitrite.

 

[DougE]

I can't think of a reason I'd add cure to something already cooked, but just wanted some confirmation that it would still work as I expected it would.

 

[jackschmidling]

The answer is....... Smoking canned fish works!

Starting with a $3 can of "Pampa" brand mackerel from Walmart...

1. drained it
2. dry-salted for 1 hr
3. air dried overnight
4. cold smoked for 4 hrs (never got above 70F)
5. hot smoked at 150F for 1 hr
5. opened a bottle of Sam Adams

My wife had to take it away before I ate it all. It is very possibly, the best smoked fish I have ever tasted.

The only downside is that she thinks it's a bit too salty. It's packed in "brine" but don't know what that means but I could possibly skip that step or reduce the dry-salt time.

Could also reduce or eliminate the hot smoke time to keep a bit more moisture.

Big bonus is that the bones are like an extra treat, like bits of corn chips. She liked the bones better than the meat AND the dark meat is as good a the light.

I'm sold.

Jack

 

[Retired Spook]

Just sprinkle some liquid smoke on it...

 

[DougE]

Just sprinkle some liquid smoke on it...

Yeah, no. I'd rather make some salmon burgers without smoke than use that.

 

[gmc2003]

The answer is....... Smoking canned fish works!

Starting with a $3 can of "Pampa" brand mackerel from Walmart...

1. drained it
2. dry-salted for 1 hr
3. air dried overnight
4. cold smoked for 4 hrs (never got above 70F)
5. hot smoked at 150F for 1 hr
5. opened a bottle of Sam Adams

My wife had to take it away before I ate it all. It is very possibly, the best smoked fish I have ever tasted.

The only downside is that she thinks it's a bit too salty. It's packed in "brine" but don't know what that means but I could possibly skip that step or reduce the dry-salt time.

Could also reduce or eliminate the hot smoke time to keep a bit more moisture.

Big bonus is that the bones are like an extra treat, like bits of corn chips. She liked the bones better than the meat AND the dark meat is as good a the light.

I'm sold.

Jack

I'm not sure why you would need to dry salt the canned mackerel or hot smoke it for that matter. Even though I've never had canned mackerel it comes pre-cooked in the can like salmon, sardines, and anchovies. I do eat at least one can of sardines a week, but I've never thought about smoking them. May have to give it a try.

Chris

 

[DougE]

I do eat at least one can of sardines a week, but I've never thought about smoking them. May have to give it a try.

Maybe I'll try it this week for the heck of it and report back.

 

[Retired Spook]

I eat an average of 2-cans of mackerel / sardines every week - been doing it for 30-years. Every once in a while I get real crazy and eat a can of anchovies right out of the can! Always put anchovies in my salads. My hat is off to anyone that can get the mackerel / sardines out of the can and keep em in one piece to smoke em!

How would you get the olive oil off of it and keep it together?

 

[gmc2003]

Maybe I'll try it this week for the heck of it and report back.

Cool, it be neat to see how they turn out. A mat is definitely needed for this one.

Chis

 

[DougE]

Cool, it be neat to see how they turn out. A mat is definitely needed for this one.

Chis

For sure.