smoking bacon... COLD OR HOT SMOKE?

[tallbm]

 
That was what I was thinking a Fridge or cooler or something to keep it cool for a while. I just hear stuff about the smoke issues with creosote. I wonder how to get around that. Great thinking. It was 90 hear today. I checked the boxes outside . They were right up there on the inside!

My understanding is that the longer the travel of the smoke the less creosote hangs around since the smoke cools down.

One of the members (johnmeyer) found a way to use a Scotch Brite stainless steel scrubber as a filter to catch creosote.  I bet it would work wonders in this situation.  See his thread here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/258297/mailbox-popcorn-mod-with-a-small-twist

I could see the use of a mailbox mod, the AMNPS, and about 4 foot of duct with stainless steel scrubbies as filters rigged up to a cooler to make this happen.  I personally would put a little computer fan or something on the exit smoke vent to suck air and smoke through the cooler so it doesn't just linger all stagnant.

Does this provide any food for thought? :)

 

[ddrian]

My understanding is that the longer the travel of the smoke the less creosote hangs around since the smoke cools down.
One of the members (johnmeyer) found a way to use a Scotch Brite stainless steel scrubber as a filter to catch creosote.  I bet it would work wonders in this situation.  See his thread here:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/258297/mailbox-popcorn-mod-with-a-small-twist

I could see the use of a mailbox mod, the AMNPS, and about 4 foot of duct with stainless steel scrubbies as filters rigged up to a cooler to make this happen.  I personally would put a little computer fan or something on the exit smoke vent to suck air and smoke through the cooler so it doesn't just linger all stagnant.

Does this provide any food for thought? :)

Thx Fantastic info that is on point!
I just returned from a Salmon trip with 300 pounds of fillets that I want to smoke! Lox are a fav with me!!!

Thanks for the info!

 

[daveomak]

I find the creosote condenses in my MB mod, providing pretty clean smoke to the meat...   Now... that being said, I haven't pulled the duct work to see what's in there...  but I'm sure there's quite a bit...    I should pull it and clean it to see...   If I do ???????   I'll take pics and report back.....  

MB Mob Creosote buildup 001.JPG

• daveomak
• Jun 1, 2017

MB Mob Creosote buildup 002.JPG

• daveomak
• Jun 1, 2017

 

[tallbm]

Thx Fantastic info that is on point!
I just returned from a Salmon trip with 300 pounds of fillets that I want to smoke! Lox are a fav with me!!!

Thanks for the info!

300 pounds?! Heaven!

You totally have a reason to try and figure out a cooler cold smoking chamber then.  That or just freeze and wait 4-5 months.

I did mine with Alder wood and it came out great!  The alder was a little strong at first but mellowed after a 1 day sit in the fridge after smoking.

Let us know what you find out :)

 

[jackstraw]

So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f. Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!

 

[tallbm]

So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f. Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!

HI there and welcome!

You could always set the MES to a temp of like 50F. That would keep the bacon from freezing and be well within cold smoking temps. As for your cold smoker attachment not working well I'm not sure what to say about that. I use the AMNPS and a Mailbox Mod. I think the AMNPS would allow the pellets to burn as long as there was oxygen and airflow.
With the heat on 50F and outside temps freezing you might get a good draft going.

I built a cold smoking assist device that creates draft for me when cold smoking. It is basically a cardboard tube with a compuer blower fan rigged on the side so that the fan blows into and upwards through the cardboard tube. When I place the tube over the MES vent and plug in the fan it creates a draft/suction that easily pulls air through the MES which in turn helps pull the smoke from the AMNPS and air through my AMNPS and Mailbox mod.
This way I don't get stale lingering smoke, the smoke circulates well, and I have no issues with my pellets burning :)

I hope this gives you some food for thought :)

 

[indaswamp]

I may also save a smaller piece of pork belly to experiment with by walking a temp up to 160F. I've read that when smoking sausage to use a temp of 160-165F max to keep the fat in sausage from rendering. I'm wondering if the bacon fat would also work at those temps. Only playing around will let me know but I will only experiment with one piece of the whole batch

Don't know if this has been addressed yet, but sausage is ground meat. The rules are different for ground meat verses whole intact cuts like bacon, pork butt, etc...

 

[Bearcarver]

So can you cold smoke too cold? I had the MES cold smoker attachment hooked to my MES 30 with some flex aluminum duct. It hasn't been above freezing up here in over a week and doesn't look to be warming up anytime soon. The first day I tried smoking this way it was so cold in the box, the smoke just sat in the bottom of the box and in the flex tube (now I know how they make liquid smoke). I removed the duct and hooked it directly to the mes the way it's meant to work and was able to get temps up around 55 f. Overnight, I'm afraid it'll freeze. I've been pulling the bacon and putting it in a fridge to keep it warm at night, then back in the box when the sun comes out. Come on spring!

Just as a thought, I don't worry about mine freezing because I don't cold smoke.
The lowest you can set an MES is 100°, and I run my Bacon between 100° and 130° for about 11 hours.
This way it won't freeze, it won't render any fat, and it gets the same color & flavor as I have gotten when cold smoking, except in less than half the time.
Here's one:
Bacon (Extra Smoky)


Bear

 

[tallbm]

Don't know if this has been addressed yet, but sausage is ground meat. The rules are different for ground meat verses whole intact cuts like bacon, pork butt, etc...

Yeah that has been addressed in one way or another. The post you quoted was from last year :)
I've smoked bacon a number of times since then and all questions have been answered :)

 

[nanuk]

I am trying to learn as much as I can on here.
sometimes I read stuff that I need clarification on.

From the Article posted: Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.

This is contrary to what folks on here (except Pops) usually say.... surface needs to be dry for smoke to "Stick"; damp or wet surfaces hinder smoke penetration.

Can anyone enlighten the subject?

 

[Bearcarver]

I am trying to learn as much as I can on here.
sometimes I read stuff that I need clarification on.

From the Article posted: Hot smoking dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration.

This is contrary to what folks on here (except Pops) usually say.... surface needs to be dry for smoke to "Stick"; damp or wet surfaces hinder smoke penetration.

Can anyone enlighten the subject?

A Pellicle helps get good smoke flavor on Bacon.
I would say Smoking Bacon with a Wet Surface can give you a bitter smoky taste (Not Good).

First of all, we have to know what somebody is calling Hot Smoking.
I personally call 225° and above "Hot Smoking".
And Cold Smoking below 100°.
And I call Warm Smoking between 100° and 130°.

I Personally use Warm smoking (100° to 130°) on my Belly Bacon for about 11 hours. ( I don't worry about the IT of this)

I also use Warm Smoking on CB & BBB, but then after I'm happy with the color, I use Hot Smoking (225°) to finish them out to an IT of 145°.

Bear

 

[SonnyE]

I'm set up now for cold smoking, or more accurately, as close to ambient as I can get.
For example, I've been working on "cold" smoking and holding close to ~ 2-3 degrees above ambient. (By observation)
I force cooled my tube from my Mod, to my smoker, with a fan on low. And (Blessedly) the AMNPS takes care of a steady smoke stream.

Reason is for fish. I have some very thin filet of flounder I wanted to smoke, then finish cooking Sous Vide method.
So far, so good. My flounder emerged smoked and uncooked.
I don't know if it helped or not, but I did put clean filtered water in my water pan and did an overnight smoke, the thought was to hold the humidity better inside my smoker. (Cooler for my latitude) To keep the fish humidified.

I don't have means for recording my smoker temperatures, but do have my outdoor temperatures recorded with my weather station. And now a TP-08 I can monitor from around the house.

The other day Indaswamp posted a very (to me) interesting video of how one company does their Salmon, and their target is 70-80 degrees in their smoker ovens. So that gave me a target to hit for next time. And I have a temperature controller to help hold that temperature in my MES 30, provided the ambient is low enough.

So, while not Bacon, I am on track to be able to do cold smoking. Much more on track than I have ever been before.
I don't know what temperatures commercial bacon producers smoke at. But most assuredly they have a method.
Here are some USDA guidelines.
I've always felt 'Makin Bacon' was a bit more than I thought I should tackle. I wouldn't be objecting to adding smoke to some already cured bacon though. I'm a dabbler, not someone who desires to go pro.

 

[nanuk]

I was more interested in the "... dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration." issue.

I have read on here and elsewhere that a pellicle is needed for smoke to adhere and/or penetrate.
but the Article seems to contradict that.
As well, I have read that Pops will take his product out of the water and straight into the smoke house. (I can't remember now if he applies smoke immediately or warms to dry a bit)

I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison, using two identical products, one allowed to dry first, the second left wet and smoke applied to see the effects.

 

[Bearcarver]

I was more interested in the "... dries out the surface of the meat creating a barrier for smoke penetration." issue.

I have read on here and elsewhere that a pellicle is needed for smoke to adhere and/or penetrate.
but the Article seems to contradict that.
As well, I have read that Pops will take his product out of the water and straight into the smoke house. (I can't remember now if he applies smoke immediately or warms to dry a bit)

I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison, using two identical products, one allowed to dry first, the second left wet and smoke applied to see the effects.

nanuk,
I thought I gave my opinion above (post #72) on this, but I'll say again "When making things like Bacon, BBB, CB, Dried Beef, etc, after curing you better get a Pellicle, or at least get it dried real good before putting the smoke on, or you'll be taking a chance on getting some nasty tasting stuff, once the smoke hits the wet surface!"

Bear

 

[nanuk]

Thanks Bear. That was what I had in my mind also. So why would it say dry surface inhibits smoke when pretty every where I read DRY surface is better?

This is why I love forums! Real world experience! I don’t need to make all the mistakes, just research what has already proven to work!

Thanks again!

 

[Bearcarver]

Thanks Bear. That was what I had in my mind also. So why would it say dry surface inhibits smoke when pretty every where I read DRY surface is better?

This is why I love forums! Real world experience! I don’t need to make all the mistakes, just research what has already proven to work!

Thanks again!

Hmmmm,
Maybe they mean the hardened surface from "Hot Smoking" keeps some smoke from penetrating the meat.
If you hot smoke bacon, it can form a tougher skin that can block some of the smoke from penetrating, which doesn't happen when Cold Smoking (below 100°) or when Warm Smoking (100° to 130°).

Bear

 

[parrot-head]

Why do you have to "cold smoke" at or below a certain temperature? Isn't cold smoking just that...cold smoking?

 

[SonnyE]

Why do you have to "cold smoke" at or below a certain temperature? Isn't cold smoking just that...cold smoking?

Probably so pellet smoker's don't get confused. :p
Cold smoking has a ceiling where it becomes a warm smoking, and warm smoking has a ceiling were becomes hot smoking.
Some things I like to "cold smoke" are Almonds, Cheeses, and some fish. Also seasonings, SPOG and Cyan pepper.
Imagine what happens to a cube of butter at 120 degrees. :confused: Where at 40-60, it can be smoked and still resemble a cube. ;)
Since I live in a hotter climate, I will typically do my "cold" smoking at night to start off with as low an ambient temperature as possible.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ed Crain]

Ouch