sausage "Binding" poll

[cal1956]

i have never used "bindings " in any of my sausages and wasn't even sure what the term meant regarding sausage until a few days ago , still don't see where i need to use them
so my question is do you use binders in your sausage ?

 

[Dabutcher]

I use a carrot fiber binder . Its fairly inexpensive , no noticable flavor and binds really good . I use it in all my smoked sausages .

 

[navigator]

Carrot fiber, sure gel or high temp dry milk powder. makes the sausages more moist and helps bind the fat in so if you cut or bite into a hot sausage all the grease wont run/squirt out.

 

[smokerjim]

I dont use any but I never did try it so I can't say if it helps

 

[cal1956]

i have never had any of the problems navigator described

 

[cal1956]

looks like a split decision on if binders are needed or not !!

 

[SmokinEdge]

It’s called protein extraction. You would know this if you made sausage. It’s fundamental 101 type stuff in sausage making. Bind is produced through protein extraction, no filler required. Fillers are actually extenders, they help make more volume and thus more sausage. This though is not required. For a man who has made a lot of sausage, you sure ask a lot of basic questions. Just saying.

 

[Brokenhandle]

No binders used here. Not an expert by any means so I could be wrong. But sure enjoy making my own sausage. One of the many things I have learned on this site...and am greatly appreciative of the people that have documented their posts, and shown me how to do it!

Ryan

 

[indaswamp]

^^^^^with pichers!!!!

For those that don't get the joke why I spelled it that way, here ya go...

 

[cal1956]

i never understood the reason for all the references to "binders " it made me wonder if the word was being misused
i still suspect that most sausage makers don't use or need "binders" that was the reason for the poll ,what was even more suprising was that some said they used them in smoked sausage , where there is clearly no need for them. after all why would anyone need a "binder " for sausage thats already bound inside a casing ? maybe its a texture thing they are going for

 

[indaswamp]

i never understood the reason for all the references to "binders " it made me wonder if the word was being misused
i still suspect that most sausage makers don't use or need "binders" that was the reason for the poll ,what was even more suprising was that some said they used them in smoked sausage , where there is clearly no need for them. after all why would anyone need a "binder " for sausage thats already bound inside a casing ? maybe its a texture thing they are going for

You clearly don't understand why binders are used. Smoke sausages are one sausage that will benefit greatly from the use of a binder. Here is a quote from an old member Reinhard:

First of all I have to say, if you use a binder or not and you are happy with the sausage you make, that is what is important. I've made sausage without binders at times like most folks. That was to see what difference it made. Well it made a lot of difference. I have posted pics on here before of some of the stuff I have made. All of that sausage was made with added powdered dry milk. In my opinion [and I have said it before a few times LOL] to have a nice and juicy sausage [links] you should use a binder. To have that nice texture in summer sausage, you should use a binder. After all when all is said and done, the appearance is a important factor, to the taste buds before you even chomp on sausage.

What does a binder do as far as appearance? It prevents shrinkage!!. A binder does what the word says. It binds the fat to the meat, thus keeping the sausage nice and juicy. Just like making any sausage, when using a binder, the correct amount of water [or beer] should be used. After all the spices, cure [if used], binder and water have been mixed well, the end result should be a sticky mix ready for stuffing.

Well what about shrinkage. I can tell you that after smoking or cooking in the oven even 25 pounds of polish for example, I may have about two or three drops on the foil below the sausage or drip pan total. And that has been consistent with me so far. I use a binder in fresh sausage as well. I vary the amount of powdered milk I use depending on how lean of a type of sausage mix I have. The more fat in the mix I can go up to 1 cup per 5 pounds and less of course in something like summer sausage, but it's in there.

I remember my grandfather who owned a butcher shop in Germany. He would use bread crumbs in sausage to act as a binder. Well that was many years ago but the idea was the same. I have a buddy that uses the powdered milk in his burger for patties and meat loaf. Haven't tried that but I think I'll give it a shot.

So the main two reasons I use the binder is for appearance , less shrinkage, and a nice juicy end product. Reinhard

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...nt-your-thoughts-and-res.180855/#post-1325711

If you have never used a binder, you have no reference to compare your results to. I use to make sausages without binders way back when I was still green at making sausages. I followed the ways of someone more experienced than me that knew the how but not the why of making sausage because it was handed down to them and well, that's the way they made it. Then I went on my own after I had learned all I could from that individual. Started using a binder just to see...and it made a difference. Back then I used a lot of NFDM powder (that's Non-Fat Dry Milk; low heat variety because it was readily available. High heat is much better). Nowadays, I use 1.5-3% low heat NFDM powder and 0.25% TSPP (Tri sodium poly phosphate). Best sausages I have ever made. I thought I had a juicy sausage with a good bind way back then...now having come full circle, I know what a good bind is. And more importantly, the sausage fundamentals on how it is achieved.

 

[indaswamp]

I can get TSPP cheap.. $2.50/#; but I have to buy 5# at a time from a local butcher supply house.

 

[indaswamp]

Hey C cal1956 , Have you ever made a jalapeno and cheese sausage before? How about a pineapple sausage?

 

[Brokenhandle]

You clearly don't understand why binders are used. Smoke sausages are one sausage that will benefit greatly from the use of a binder. Here is a quote from an old member Reinhard:

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...nt-your-thoughts-and-res.180855/#post-1325711

If you have never used a binder, you have no reference to compare your results to. I use to make sausages without binders way back when I was still green at making sausages. I followed the ways of someone more experienced than me that knew the how but not the why of making sausage because it was handed down to them and well, that's the way they made it. Then I went on my own after I had learned all I could from that individual. Started using a binder just to see...and it made a difference. Back then I used a lot of NFDM powder (that's Non-Fat Dry Milk; low heat variety because it was readily available. High heat is much better). Nowadays, I use 1.5-3% low heat NFDM powder and 0.25% TSPP (Tri sodium poly phosphate). Best sausages I have ever made. I thought I had a juicy sausage with a good bind way back then...now having come full circle, I know what a good bind is. And more importantly, the sausage fundamentals on how it is achieved.

Guess I need to make more sausage and try binders...I'm still a noob in that sense.

Ryan

 

[SmokinEdge]

I can get TSPP cheap.. $2.50/#; but I have to buy 5# at a time from a local butcher supply house.

The powder milk is good and fine for sausage, but in my view it’s the TSPP that makes the biggest difference. A good protien extraction and phosphate is winner winner.

 

[indaswamp]

Yes...big difference. juicier sausages...better binding of meat to fat particles...less shrinkage. Firmer sausage from great bind.

 

[cal1956]

sorry inda, but i don't have any of the problems you describe , the sausage i make only contain meat and spices none of those fillers you talk about, thats the difference, you make sausage that might need binders but that doesn't make what you/i make better than the other just different . i make an old southern style smoked sausage that is and always will be 100% pure pork sausage and people love it ,
why would i add a "binder" to it when its not needed, its been made this way for at least a couple hundred years . i know of one place in the south that makes and sells 1000s of lbs of this very same sausage . is he making sausage wrong ...i don't think so , and just try and tell that man that he needs "binders" in his sausage and watch how hard he laughts
and by the way inda, i really don't "need" advise on how to make sausage , i do quite well but thanks anyway

 

[cal1956]

here is a picture of my sausage , does it look like it shrunk ? plus they look great too !!

 

[Dabutcher]

I normally use binders in my smoked sausage but I have to say yours looks really good .

 

[cal1956]

thank you , i think if you put things other than meat in your sausage you "might " need a binder , but i don't make those kind of sausage . not that mine are any better than inda's, just a totally different kinda sausage