Salt Temperature?

[ArasB]

Hi there,
I just did my first cold smoked Sablefish and it turned out amazing thanks to this forum!
I was wondering if anyone out there pre-cools your salt before putting it on the fish to reduce risk of Botulism? I took room temperature salt, lined a plastic container, added my cold fish, then covered the fish with remaining salt before putting it in the fridge for 48hours.
Is this good practice or should I have chilled my salt before putting it on the fish? Maybe I'm overthinking it.
Other than this, the fish was at 38 degree fridge temps the whole time before smoking for an hour (Smoker temps never got above 77 degrees F during the cold smoke).
The delicate fish has a nice smoke flavor throughout.

My technique was as follows:
Rinse fish (3 lbs, skin on - I might remove the skin next time)
Cover with salt and place in fridge for 48 hours (did not put any weight on the fish, no sugar, just kosher salt)
Rinsed the fish and put it in 37 degree water in the fridge for 2 hours to desalinate (tasting along the way)
Dried on racks in my fridge for 4 hours (maybe a little too long as the pellicle started to get less sticky towards the end)
Smoked on cold smoke for 1 hour
Rested in fridge for 12 hours before gentle vacuum sealing

Delicious!
Thanks for your help,
Aras

 

[daveomak]

cools your salt before putting it on the fish to reduce risk of Botulism?

Are you using "Cure#1" salt with nitrite in it ???

 

[ArasB]

Negative. There is Nitrite sensitivity in my family, so I tend to avoid it (with some exceptions). This batch was just 6 lbs of room-temp single ingredient kosher salt (Diamond Kosher) completely surrounding the 3 lbs of fish (2 filets), about 1/4" of coverage all around. Once covered in salt, it was placed in the non-circulating fridge for 48 hours at 38 degrees.

 

[daveomak]

Salt has no effect on botulism.... unless you add it to a level that is inedible... maybe....
Way back when.... some salts had nitrate in it... Those salts had an effect on botulism... that's how it was determined nitrite/nitrate saved customers from getting botulism poisoning from eating smoked meats...
Or temperature works also... 250 F +/- kills botulism spores in pressure canning foods..

 

[ArasB]

I understand that regular salt does not affect botulism. I am interested in seeing if I added any risk by not chilling my salt first, potentially causing the meat to sit above 40 degrees for some time. The meat was below 40 when I added the salt, and I put it back in the fridge after adding the salt.
I will probably do an experiment next time I buy more salt where I’ll measure the temperature of the salt after putting it in the fridge in the same container to see how long it takes to drop below 40. I’ll report anything interesting.
I didn’t think that anyone chilled their salt first, just seems silly, but was just curious. Maybe industrial places that don’t use nitrates do this to minimize risk.

 

[chef jimmyj]

There is no opportunity at any step for spores to grow so no Botulism possible.
1) Covered in salt is not oxygen free. No growth.
2) Cure time, Soak time, Pellicle formation, all done under refrigeration below 40°F. No growth.
3) Smoke time at 77°F under USDA 2 hour recommendation for being out of refer. No growth.
4) Rested under refrigeration. No growth.

Room Temp Salt, Cold Salt, don't make a difference here...JJ

 

[ArasB]

Ah, nice. That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[daveomak]

I was wondering if anyone out there pre-cools your salt before putting it on the fish to reduce risk of Botulism?

Botulism grows in a low oxygen environment... Like in a smoker with the fuel consuming the oxygen..

 

[daveomak]

Negative. There is Nitrite sensitivity in my family, so I tend to avoid it (with some exceptions). This batch was just 6 lbs of room-temp single ingredient kosher salt (Diamond Kosher) completely surrounding the 3 lbs of fish (2 filets), about 1/4" of coverage all around. Once covered in salt, it was placed in the non-circulating fridge for 48 hours at 38 degrees.

If you are interested in learning new stuff....

In the stomach, nitrite can produce dangerous carcinogenic nitrosamines; however, these reactions are inhibited in the presence of phenolic antioxidants, ascorbic acid, or other substances that are also added to food or are present in fruit and fresh vegetable juices that may be consumed with the cured meat. Furthermore, nitrite is naturally present in saliva, in concentrations higher than those found in cured meat products, and lettuce, spinach, beets, and many other vegetables contain nitrate, which is reduced in the mouth to nitrite by the action of bacteria. Therefore, the risks associated with the use of nitrate and nitrite in cured fish and meat products seem to be very small, whereas the benefits are large.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/sodium-nitrite
....

 

[ArasB]

True. I argue this to people all the time, but it’s an uphill battle. I always mention how beets have more than bacon.
Cheers!