Post-mortem help requested

[vayank5150]

First, a little background info on my rig.  I got a Master Forge charcoal smoker for Christmas.  After the first smoke did not go so well, I made the "Brinkman" modifications I found on this site inclusive of blocking off the single hole in the bottom of the smoker, adding two Weber vents to the bottom of the smoker and a third to the lid of the smoker.  Additionally, I added charcoal grates at 1" above the bottom of the charcoal pan.  I did not seal the lid, but after this run plan to do that next as way to much smoke and heat escape from arounf my lid.

So, I decided I wanted to try a whole chicken.  I brined the 5 lb chicken in just kosher salt and cold water over night.  I then spatchcocked the chicken, slathered it with mayonnaise, and added a dry rub consisting of kosher salt, black pepper, onion powder, garlic powder and paprika.

Outisde temps during this smoke ranged between 37 and 42 degf.  Light winds.  I got my smoker up to temperature (+/- 282 degf, as I read on here to cook between 275 degf and 300 degf for a crispier skin) using Royal Oak lump charcoal (I attempted the minion method, but am not sure how well it worked out), and placed the chicken on the top grate breast side up (I think this was wrong?) and added a combination of oak, hickory and apple chips to the coals (about a handful and a half).  For the first 1 1/2 hours, I was able to maintain the smoker temp between 273 degf and 293 degf, with a couple of dips and spikes when I added more chips.  I added additional chips (handful and a half) at thirty minute intervals until I reached the 1 hour and 45 minute cook time.  At this point, the internal temperature at the breast was about 145 degf.  The smoker was still maintaining an average temperature of 282 degf.  The internal chicken temperature got up to 154 degf and then basically stalled.  Internal and smoker temps stayed here for another hour, until my coals finally started to give out.  I ended up having to add another batch of fire hot coals to my smoker at the 3 hour and 30 minute point.  The smoker spiked up to 307 degf and within another 25 minutes, the internal temp finally reached 165 degf, and I decided to take the chicken off.  I immediately wrapped the chicken in aluminum foil and let it rest for 15 minutes.

Now, the skin on the chicken was pitch black.  Very unappealing to the eye (I will try to post the pics I took after I type all of this out, but have had little success uploading pics to this site in the past).  The skin was very chewy and heavily smoked, and in all honesty not very tasty at all.  The good part is that the chicken meat itself was tender, juicy, slightly smokey and quite delicious.

chicken 1.JPG

• vayank5150
• Jan 28, 2013

So.....

1)  what did I do wrong to make the skin SO black and chewy?

2)  any ideas as to why the flavors of the rub didn't really seep into the chicken meat?

You guys have all been great with advice so far, and I am SO into smoking now, so any advice or tips you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

 

[hambone1950]

Brother , I have been where you are and I feel your pain. If I looked up the right smoker on google , your smoker looks exactly like my old brinkmann gourmet......having said that , I am by no means an expert but I will venture to say you might've overdone the smoke wood that you added ( causing the black unappetizing skin) since the chicken actually came out ok , I think you just have to conclude that this is the way your smoker works and you just gotta roll with it. ( others can suggest how to solve the problems.... I never could)
For future cooks I would say , load it up one time with charcoal. Minion method , but maybe start with fewer lit coals. Add smoke wood once after smoker gets nice and hot and leave it at that.
Let the thing cook as long as it will efficiently on that one load of charcoal. If the meat isn't done or its taking too long , finish it in the oven or even your gas grill . This is what I did with my brinkmann and it saved me a lot of stomach acid. But ultimately I bought a weber smoky mountain and that was the real answer. Just my opinion and I hope it's helpful. Good luck , man.

:grilling_smilie:

 

[daveomak]

Mike, morning and welcome to the forum......  First, intermingle the chips with the chunks so you don't have to open the smoker to keep adding chips....   1 1/2 handful of chips is a lot of chips and creates too much smoke.... too much smoke is not very tasty.... That amount of chips added to the chunks should be about right for a 3-4  hours smoke.....  If the meat still has an off flavor, reduce the amount of chips....   

The temperature stall at 154 deg is caused by "evaporative cooling" from the moisture inside the meat....  It is common is all meats...  I think it is more exaggerated when the meat is brined, more moisture...  You can foil the meat to stop the evaporation process... bring up to final temp...  then put under the broiler or on the grill to crisp the skin...   rubbery chicken skin is common in regular smoking methods...  

As far as rub flavor goes, you could "dry brine" the chicken......   rub with salt and spices and herbs.... inside and out....  let sit in the refer for a day....  let the chicken skin get dry to the touch and put in the smoker....  Smoke sticks and penetrates better on a dry piece of meat...  In my opinion, smoke and moisture create a terrible tasting mix like acid rain...  

Everyone smokes meat using a different method...  Personal taste dictate methods to achieve final results... Opinions vary greatly on this subject so listen to everyone and try different methods until you achieve your taste preference....    Dave

 

[mdboatbum]

Hello VaYank.

I just have a couple suggestions that may help.

First, the minion method, while a great way of maintaining low heat over a long time, is completely unnecessary and somewhat detrimental in smoking chicken.

Next, lose the chips, get some chunks. As Hambone said, it sounds like you're oversmoking with the wrong kind of smoke. The frequent addition of chips just makes your temp roller coaster all over the place and keeps replenishing that white billowing smoke that's turning your chicken skin black.

And lastly, this whole mythical "crispy skin" thing is really a misnomer. Think back over your lifetime and try to remember how many times you've had "crispy" skin on chicken. Go ahead, I'll wait............

Never? Maybe once? That's what I thought. Chicken skin, especially if it's brined, really won't get "crispy". If you try to get it "crispy" you'll more often either burn the crap out of it or it will draw up and almost disappear. What you can get, and what will be really good, is tender, bite through skin that's perfectly smoked and nicely browned. Even if it's "crispy" when it comes out of the cooker, it'll soften almost immediately. So stop worrying about crispy skin and try this on your next cook:

Spatchcock and brine. You seem to have this part down. But next time, do it one day early. After a few hours in the brine, take your chicken out and thoroughly dry it with paper towels. Then sprinkle the skin with salt. Don't completely cover it, just a light sprinkling. You're not so much seasoning it here as drawing out moisture and coaxing proteins to the surface. Then put your bird on a cooling rack in a half sheet pan UNCOVERED on the bottom shelf of your fridge for 24 hours. Your chicken will look pretty awful after this, but trust me, it's a good thing.

When it's time to smoke, Fire up one whole chimney of whatever charcoal you're going to use. I use briquettes for their longer burn time and predictable nature, but lump will work here as well. You're only going to need them for a little over an hour, maybe an hour and a half, so you'll be fine. Then take 2 of those chunks of hardwood (fist sized) and put them on your grate. I like to use a stronger flavored wood like hickory or mesquite, as there won't be a lot of time for smoke absorption, but mild fruit woods work as well. you'll just have a more subtle smoke flavor. Then dump that whole chimney of hot coals right on top of the wood in your coal pan. It'll smoke like hell and probably flame up, but give it a few minutes. Put your smoker back together including your empty water pan or whatever your smoker uses as a heat deflector between the coals and the food. With all vents open, your temp should be climbing pretty quickly. Let it. You want heat here and lots of it. I usually aim for 325˚ to 375˚, but have had my little mini WSM get a little rambunctious and shoot right up past 450˚. If you can, try to aim for 350˚ so it doesn't cook too fast, as you do want it to take on some smoke. Once you have a fairly stable temp and the smoke has thinned out to either invisible or "Thin blue smoke", you're ready to put your chicken on. I go skin side up, as I don't like grill marks on whole birds, but do whatever makes you happy. Put your temp probe in wherever you're used to. I usually put it in the thickest part of the breast and shoot for 165˚-170˚. You've brined the bird, so you're pretty well protected against it completely drying out, but much past 170˚ and it will start to get a little dry. Once you've hit your temp target, check the thigh (should be 175˚ or so) and several places in the breast to make sure, then take it off and let it rest for 10 or 15 minutes, lightly covered in foil.

I think you'll be happy with the results.

Oh, one other thing. As for your rub flavors not getting through the skin into the meat, that just means the skin was doing it's job. You can season your brine, or put rub under the skin to get a little flavor in the meat, but chicken's kinda funny about taking on a lot of flavor. It usually ends up tasting like...well....chicken.

Good luck and let us know how the next one turns out!

 

[vayank5150]

I have never seen "chunks" of hardwood sold at my stores where I get "chips".  Where does one get "chunks" of smoking wood?

 

[mdboatbum]

I have never seen "chunks" of hardwood sold at my stores where I get "chips".  Where does one get "chunks" of smoking wood?

Home depot, Ace Hardware, Lowes. Most hardware stores sell them in the grill dept. Look around, you'll find them.

 

[vayank5150]

Hmmmm...that is where I have been finding my Cowboy and Stubbs brand chips.  I will look closer.  Thank you!!

 

[whtplainssmoker]

This time of year, the big box home improvement stores like Home Depot, Lowes and the like tend to stash away most of the grilling and smoking supplies, so it is a little more difficult to find.  You might have better luck with a mom and pop Ace hardware.  I've been in a few this time of year and still find that they have bags of wood chunks for smokers. There are also some websites that sell chunks (like smokinlicious.com) but they can be a little costly.  

I've also seen some people suggest that if you have a cabinet maker in town, you can ask them for cherry or oak wood scraps (as long as there is no glue on the pieces).

 

[hambone1950]

Hey yank....can I call you yank?
You got some good advice here. Lots of good points made by all. I just wanted to clarify about how I used to cook on my brinkmann , which I think is very similar to yours. I always said chicken was the best thing to cook on my brinkmann because you could just let the fire go and use it more like a grill.
Having said that , if you want to do a pork shoulder or ribs , that's where I think the minion method will help , I used to just chock the thing full of charcoal once and throw in a small chimney full of lit....then I would control the temp as well as I could for as long as that load of charcoal would let me go. Once the temps dropped below 200 for a while , I would assess where the meat was and go from there. I could usually coax the fire long enough to get thru ribs , but I almost always would wrap the pork butt in foil and finish it in the oven. ( mostly because I wanted to be able to serve it the same day) . Adding more charcoal while the smoker was going was just not something I wanted to keep doing. The reason I finally bought a WSM was that I wanted to do brisket and I felt like I'd wind up shooting myself before I got thru one on the brinkmann. I know the temp fluctuations you see on your smoker are disturbing , but really , they don't seem to do that much damage....just cook til the meat is tender and/or at the right IT and it usually comes out decent.

 

[vayank5150]

Yes, you can call me Yank! I am originally from Maine (AF brat), but been in VA since 1976. It's funny you should mention prok shoulder, as I plan that to be my next "trick". I have no idea of the weight at the moment, but anticipate it taking much, muhc longer to smoke. Since my first batch of minion lump coal only lasted about 2 1/2 hours, I am a little concerned about making it all the way though on the shoulder. I guess at lower temps versus chicken, the coals will last longer?One piece of info I left out of my original message, but noticed it mentioned in one of the replies I got is the water pan. I do use it and did have water in it. In fact, when the temps started to spike at some point, I checked the water level and added more. I have seen some of here recommend not using water, but instead using sand as a thermal mass. Perhaps I should give up on the water for this smoker?

 

[mdboatbum]

I have seen some of here recommend not using water, but instead using sand as a thermal mass. Perhaps I should give up on the water for this smoker?

Depends on what you're cooking. For chicken or other foods that benefit from high heat, I'd leave it empty. For your pork butt, I'd fill it with sand or lava rocks or something that will hold heat and keep it steady. I use a terracotta saucer in my mini WSM and that will keep it low and slow for hours on end.

 

[hambone1950]

Yes, you can call me Yank! I am originally from Maine (AF brat), but been in VA since 1976. It's funny you should mention prok shoulder, as I plan that to be my next "trick". I have no idea of the weight at the moment, but anticipate it taking much, muhc longer to smoke. Since my first batch of minion lump coal only lasted about 2 1/2 hours, I am a little concerned about making it all the way though on the shoulder. I guess at lower temps versus chicken, the coals will last longer? One piece of info I left out of my original message, but noticed it mentioned in one of the replies I got is the water pan. I do use it and did have water in it. In fact, when the temps started to spike at some point, I checked the water level and added more. I have seen some of here recommend not using water, but instead using sand as a thermal mass. Perhaps I should give up on the water for this smoker?

Ok , yank it is .
Right. Pork shoulder....the charcoal should last longer if you go minion. . As to the sand thing , I can attest that it works wonders in the WSM . I did not know about this when I had my brinkmann so I never actually tried it.....but from all I've read , water is the worst heat sink you can use, because you burn up all your charcoal heating the water.. I would get some sand (I use gravel) or a brick....I usually cook my Pork shoulder in a foil pan so dripping is not an issue. but if youre going barenaked on the grate you want to foil the pan .....try it once and I bet you won't go back to water. And you've got those weber vents in your smoker , so I'm betting those will help. I am thinking you will be able to cook at decent BBQ type temps this time , but I wouldn't obsess TOO much about temperature....as long as its between 200 and 300 you will do ok......shoulder is very forgiving. You have a good thermometer that you can leave right in the meat while it cooks , right?
Now here's the thing , like my big brother (who moved to Texas and became a BBQ Know it all) taught me....once the meat's got good color , it's got good smoke. If you are looking good color wise or the IT Has hit 170 or so , go ahead and foil that pork and either leave it in the smoker or pop it in the oven and finish it off. Then let it rest for a while and then shred it.
And take some pitchas , man ...we love them pitchas !
:grilling_smilie:

 

[chef jimmyj]

I will just add one more observation...That is A LOT of rub on that Bird! Garlic, Onion and Paprika will get Bitter in large quantities especially if your are getting White Smoke and Creosote from too many chips...A great technique is to mix your rub with butter or Bacon Grease and rub the bird under and on the skin then just add a light sprinkle or rub an top...JJ

 

[vayank5150]

Oh yeah?  Well, at least I got the brine kinda sorta right!!

Actually, you all are awesome.  I now have about 10 or 12 different things to try this next weekend, not to mention some shopping to do to add materiel to my new addiction.  Thanks so much!

 

[chef jimmyj]

Yank, Give these a try, lots of folks use them or a variation...JJ

Families Favorite Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran. Garlic

2T Gran. Onion

2T Dry Thyme

2T Black Pepper

1C Vinegar (Any)

1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix

1/2C Brown Sugar, Optional

1T Red Pepper Flake Optional

Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.

Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.

Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.

This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...

Bubba Chix Rub

1/2C Raw Sugar

2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)

1T Cayenne

1T Gran. Garlic

1T Gran. Onion

1tsp Black Pepper

1tsp Wht Pepper

1tsp Allspice

1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning or Thyme

Mix well. You can put directly on the skin or mix with Butter, Oil or Bacon Grease and rub on and under the Skin.

Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.

Good Luck!