Pops6927's Wet Curing Brine

[daveomak]

Even if I use pork butts like I make pulled pork out of?

REMSR, afternoon.....    contrary to what you can read from some folks.....   curing is a process that takes time.....    Ignoring the proper length of time to cure a particular thickness of meat you can end up with something like in the picture below...  any hunk of meat over 2" thick should be injected also....

.....  incomplete cured piece of meat........  click on pic to enlarge.....

Cured Ham Fail Clarissa.jpg

• daveomak
• Mar 10, 2016

 

[remsr]

Thank you again. What you have told me takes the confusion out of curing meats. However, the article about using pure sugar seems a tittle over the top. I have read where someone had experienced roppy brine, but never said why, they just changed the brine which sounds kind of dangerous to me,
but every recipe I read has brown sugar in it even pop's brine yet this article says don't use brown sugar??? I apologize for asking so many questions but I dislike making mistake even more then I love success,

 

[remsr]

One last question I have a gallon of pop's brine mixed up in the refrigerator cooling down after boiling some spices into it. Do I just inject them like I inject them for pulled pork

 

[unclejhim]

When making a brine when should the pink salt (cure #1 ) be added? I've heard that you should not add the cure to hot/boing/simmering water? Does it matter?

Thanks

 

[daveomak]

 
When making a brine when should the pink salt (cure #1 ) be added? I've heard that you should not add the cure to hot/boing/simmering water? Does it matter?

Thanks

Always add the cure AFTER the brine has cooled...    Good question.....

 

[unclejhim]

Thanks.

 

[buckinducks]

Should this be left in the fridge ? Or will that slow the brine process to much. Currently have a pork belly in.

 

[Bearcarver]

Should this be left in the fridge ? Or will that slow the brine process to much. Currently have a pork belly in.

Temp should be between 34° and 40°---Preferably 36° to 38°.

Bear

 

[remsr]

Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form the p word over night, then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. They came out great so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference. So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke? Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
Randy,

 

[daveomak]

Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form the p word over night, then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. They came out great so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference. So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke? Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
Randy,

 Scientists do testing to make sure the parameters they outline are safe.....   Cure #1 and all other cures are degraded in temps above 130 deg. F....   The nitrite applied to the meat was below what you intended...

 

[remsr]

So next time my ham will be even better!
Thank you .
Randy,

 

[dr k]

Then my hams should not have turned out because I mixed everything, pickelling spices, brown sugar, white sugar. Kosher Salt, pink salt then I boiled it all in a stainless steel stock pot, then cooled it down to 34 degree and submerged the pork butts and put a gallon zip lock bag of water on top to hold them down. They weren't really crowded but they were touching a bit so I turned them often for 14 days. After 14 days I washed them with cold water dryed them and put them in the refrigerator in open air to form the p word over night, then I bubble smoked them. The first day I smoked them with a mix of Hicory and apple pellets using the Amazing smoker in my Masterbuilt 40" to 120 itt then back in the refrigerator in open air over night then I smoked them to 145 the next day. They came out great so I don't understand how adding pink salt after I Boiled and cooled the brine could have made a difference. So next time I will add the pink salt after the brine is cooled to see if there is a difference.
Understand that I don't doubt anyone who has more experience then myself which is almost everyone, but I do wonder how I lucked out on this smoke? Has anyone done it the way I did and experienced something bad?
Randy,

I must be missing something.  You did boil it all and it worked (which is good.)  When I researched nitrate vs.nitrite curing I'm like what Dave mentioned, that nitrite breaks down after 130*F (which is a good thing.)  Nitrates are more stable at higher temps.  Googlling how nitrates/nitrites preserve food is an interesting scientific processes.  I'm not a doctor and I get a little po'd when the Doc's do have studies on the nitrites of cured meats and leaving out the veggie end of nitrates.  The nitrates in celery, cabbage, root veggies etc. are high but docs  say they are offset by antioxidants.  So, eat an apple or take Vitamin C with cured meats LOL.  Sorry about the run away on this.  I have made my cured brine cold and let it sit in the fridge till are granules are is solution, as my frozen food thaws in the fridge.  Steve Raichlen on tv boils his nitrite in his brine. 

-Kurt       

 

[tropics]

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/243139/1st-attempt-at-corned-beef

Here is an article that says different

Richie

 

[daveomak]

I did a search on "residual nitrites in processed meats".....    Below is one article...   they all say basically the same thing....  

Ingoing nitrite is from 100-200 Ppm(mg/kg) and after processing the measured nitrite is from (1981 10-42 Ppm(mg/kg)) and (2009 7 Ppm(mg/kg)) an 80% reduction in nitrite.....   The higher 1981 numbers are prior to strict ingoing nitrite controls...   The 7 Ppm nitrite numbers are from processed meats at the consumer counter....   The reduction in nitrite from 100-200 Ppm to 7 ppm is during the processing process....  hanging and cooking in the smoker....   Pressure cooked in the retort...    Anyway, one can glean from these articles that processing reduces the nitrite and processing is heat...   If you think that is incorrect, what else reduces the nitrite....   little botulism bugs ???     Find a reference that suggests something other than processing reduces the nitrite in processed foods....   

Now, I could be wrong about this whole deal, but, cooking the cure #1 in boiling/heated water "COULD" reduce the available nitrite from 200 Ppm to 7 Ppm which is doing you absolutely no good when it comes to killing the botulism bug...  If you think I do not have your best interest at heart.....  go eat a balut....

http://www.cmc-cvc.com/en/nutrition-health/nitrite-cured-meat-products

 

[jaxrmrjmr]

Dang,  lots of hard headed people out there.  What is being offered is a safe way of doing things - not the absolute way that things must be done.

There are tribes of indians that bury fish in the sand and then dig it up and eat it once it ferments.  Thai's bury veggies and such then dig it up and eat it a month or so later.

Just because you did things one way and it didn't go bad doesn't mean that it is a universally safe way of doing it.

I think we have some pretty good safety standards.  Or ignore the advise but do not comment on it.

 

[remsr]

This was my first time using Prague powder and my first attempt at hams. Nothing I read said not to boil the cure, but I did read about boiling herbs and spices to reliece the flavors in to the brine. Now that I have been told not to boil the cure I will never boil the cure again. My reasoning is that most brines don't need to be boiled if they don't contain solids that benefit from boiling. That being said it's save to say that cure works in cold water without question, so I will go with what I know is safe from now on. Thank you all for setting me strate on that.
Randy,

 

[daveomak]

Randy, morning....    Logical thinking...  Good choice....  NOW, I have only read NOT to cook or boil nitrite as it loses it's effectiveness...   They don't say why and I have looked for evidence other than test results on processed foods which I have posted...   I do wish there was an explanation, SOMEWHERE, that would make this easier to convince folks and explain why.....  Reading posts, from famous folks, that say to boil cure in with your spices, does nothing for my confidence that it is safe...   Just because they have been in front of a camera or wrote a book on curing, doesn't prove they know squat about the science.....  

OK, let me get down off of my soapbox....   Cure on....   be safe....     Dave

 

[remsr]

Thanks Dave, "better safe than sorry".
Randy,

 

[buckinducks]

Loved the brine, added a dash of maple exctract 7 days in, didn't add anything to my bacon on the outside not even pepper and it was fantastic. 2 rows of smoke on amnps and it was the perfect mix of sweet and smokey. Used the low salt version and wasn't a tad bit salty.

 

[remsr]

I really don't know how we servived back when I was growing up. We didn't have runing water so it made it difficult to keep hands and equipment sanitary, all meat was cut on the same cutting board that I don't recall ever being washed. We didn't have electricity so we didn't have a refrigerator, instead we had an ice box with a lot of the space taken up by a large block of ice, for many years we didn't even have An ice box. So we couldn't defrost frozen foods at what is considered now to be a save degrees. The good news is that we didn't need to defrost frozen foods because there wasn't any. We couldn't keep leftovers long, so we rearlly had any. We consumed a lot of dried beef, salt pork, salami, pickled foods and other foods that keep well without refrigeration. But still we consumed a lot of fresh meats that were not handled or cooked under the most sanitary conditions, yet no one got sick.
Understand I am certainly not saying that we shouldn't practice save and sanitary conditions because I have had two resent experiences with food poisoning myself eating at respectable restaurants.
I am just wondering what has changed so much that we have to be so carefull now days?
Today ignoring safety and sanitary conditions is like getting in your car and driving down a busy street ignoring all the traffic lights. Maybe you're lucky and you get to where your going, but there is a greater chance that you won't. Oh I know there were cases of food poisoning back in the day, but not in my family and not like today, why? I think if this question can be answered more people will take safe food handling and cooking more serious. My 90 year old mom bless her heart, still defrosts everything on the kitchen counter over night and does other unsafe food prep and handling as well. How we all servive without getting sick or worse is anyone's guess.