Pop’s brine scalable?

[curmudgeonly]

I wonder if I screwed up. This is the first time trying a brine cure for bacon.

I only have a small chunk of belly and didn’t need a gallon of water to cover it, so I cut the recipe in half.

I woke up early this morning thinking maybe I shouldn’t have done that and considered dumping it out and starting over.

Do I need to, or is it okay?

 

[chopsaw]

I always mix it by the gallon , because that's what Pop's said to do .
He told me not to make half batches .

 

[in. pred]

bacon a long cure be safe! cant hurt much to start over.

 

[curmudgeonly]

i bet that was for meat to salt ratio though?

Thanks for the two replies. It’s not much to base a decision on.

I expected more replies. Surely I’m not the only one wondering about this.

 

[chopsaw]

It’s not much to base a decision on.

What more do you want to hear ?

I always mix it by the gallon , because that's what Pop's said to do .
He told me not to make half batches .

 

[gmc2003]

Thanks for the two replies. It’s not much to base a decision on.

You asked a question and chopsaw Rich(whose a very respected member) answered it. Pops didn't recommend cutting his recipe in half.

Chris

 

[Quiganomics]

What more do you want to hear ?

Some folks don't want an honest answer, they just want reassurance they're right and nothing more.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Thanks for the two replies. It’s not much to base a decision on.

I expected more replies. Surely I’m not the only one wondering about this.

Keep the meat, dump the brine. Mix up a full gallon of brine like it was meant to be. You're new, your own thoughts made you think you shouldn't have and you asked your question . The response you got is what you expected , but not hoping for. So now you have had three responses.

The members here will make sure you do things in a proper manner, especially when it comes to curing. Can't be said about everything else you see on the web.
Only thing we ask is you be respectful, without drama.

Ryan

 

[curmudgeonly]

You asked a question and chopsaw Rich(whose a very respected member) answered it. Pops didn't recommend cutting his recipe in half.

Chris

I wasn’t questioning his knowledge or ability. I was just surprised that with the forum as active as it is, there was so little response.

 

[curmudgeonly]

Keep the meat, dump the brine. Mix up a full gallon of brine like it was meant to be. You're new, your own thoughts made you think you shouldn't have and you asked your question . The response you got is what you expected , but not hoping for. So now you have had three responses.

The members here will make sure you do things in a proper manner, especially when it comes to curing. Can't be said about everything else you see on the web.
Only thing we ask is you be respectful, without drama.

Ryan

Thanks for your detailed response and for reading the situation so well.

No disrespect was intended.

 

[zwiller]

From memory, Pop's father got the brine approved with the USDA and it was the USDA that said it could not be scaled. From a common sense perspective, it should scale, but alas, USDA said that it does not. The lack of scaling is most likely a safety feature. "Half a tablespoon is 2 tsp right?"

If I went back in time to learn curing, I woulda tried Bearcarver's curing methods much earlier. I have become a HUGE fan on Tenderquick and dry curing.

 

[chopsaw]

I was just surprised that with the forum as active as it is, there was so little response.

Probably because you got the answer in post 2 . Believe me , there's times when the same thing is said many times over . Just not always needed .

His family made a living off this formula , so I trust what he told me . From there it gets complicated . Like , you can mix a gallon and use that in part , but don't mix it in halves .
The amount of cure is low to start with , so halving it weakens it to much . Has to do with concentration levels .

I'm wondering what you mixed up . Half gallon water , 1/2 TBLS cure 1 ,, how much salt and sugar ?

 

[chopsaw]

"Half a tablespoon is 2 tsp right?"

3 tsp = 1 TBLS .

 

[curmudgeonly]

Probably because you got the answer in post 2 . Believe me , there's times when the same thing is said many times over . Just not always needed .

His family made a living off this formula , so I trust what he told me . From there it gets complicated . Like , you can mix a gallon and use that in part , but don't mix it in halves .
The amount of cure is low to start with , so halving it weakens it to much . Has to do with concentration levels .

I'm wondering what you mixed up . Half gallon water , 1/2 TBLS cure 1 ,, how much salt and sugar ?

Half of what the recipe calls for, yes.

 

[chopsaw]

Half of what the recipe calls for, yes.

I figured that for the cure and water , because it's a set amount . The original was 1 cup of salt and the sugars to 1 gallon of water . Later on he had reduced levels for a lower salt version .
1/2 cup of the salt and sugars to 1 gallon water . Cure stayed the same . I think he even listed a 1/3 cup version , but it was always 1 gallon water , 1 TBLS cure 1 .

That's why I asked how much salt and sugar .

Pop's father got the brine approved with the USDA and it was the USDA that said it could not be scaled.

I believe that's correct . He talks about it in this article . Looks like New York state inspection .

Pop's Curing Brine

Let me present this photo of the intructions from a package of cure #1: Do you seer where it says : "... 24 pounds of curing salt to 100 gallons of water ..."? take 24 lbs x 16 oz per pound = 384 oz. per 100 gallons of water. That is THE...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

Here's another one . Just because it's good info and reading .

The Art Of The Curing Brine!

I was born and brought up in a grocery/meat store, and my dad specialized in cured and smoked hams, bacons, shoulders, corned beef, pastrami, cured and smoked chickens and turkeys, etc. in Northern New York. He developed his own brine he brought...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[bill ace 350]

I remember shopping in his family's store...

Store long gone, but I pass by the old location many times a week.

 

[thirdeye]

I only have a small chunk of belly and didn’t need a gallon of water to cover it, so I cut the recipe in half.

This is a wonderful thread about Pop's Brine.

Pops6927's Wet Curing Brine

real simple curing brine: for every 1 gallon of water, add: 1/3 - 1 cup sea salt (depending if you're on a lo-salt diet) 1 cup granulated sugar or Splenda174 1 cup brown sugar or Splenda174 brown sugar mix 1 tbsp cure no. 1 pink salt stir thoroughly until clear amber color, pour over...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

From my notes, here is a Q&A where Pop's answered this question:
Q. Do I have this right? As long as the curing brine is made with 1 TBSP per gal of water, and then, as long as meat is fully covered, it will work. Say, I mix a gal of your recipe, but only use a pint of it, in a small Ziplock bag with some jerky strips. The jerky will still brined safe and sound, the same as if I had used the whole gal?
A. Yes, the whole thing is concentration within a given volume; once concocted, changing the volume does not change the concentration.

As far mixing 1/2 batches, I recall it was daveomak that advised against mixing a 1/2 batch because the concentration would not be correct.

 

[PolishDeli]

C curmudgeonly

In short: yes you can scale the brine recipe up or down, as it will still work.
However, there is ambiguity regarding the resulting ingoing NaNO2 concentration.

Pops brine is popular on this site, as it is a simple formulations; it has been used by forum members for over a decade and so it has a reputation for yielding good results.
…but can you scale it?

Let's look at:
-Pops recommendations
-Math
-Regulations

Pops recommendations

Pops has stated “I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same! Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required! Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat.”

Granted, he does not specify reducing the volume; but he clearly articulates that volume is irrelevant. Therefore, Pops rules simplify to Number of Gallons Water = Number tablespoons cure#1.


Math

There are two equally valid and accepted equations for calculating the amount of NaNO2 (active ingredient in cure#1) going into the meat during the curing process. The two equations yield drastically different results. The discrepancy lies in the assumptions being made meat weight. The equations are described below, and the tables list results of calculating ingoing NaNO2 for Pops recipe at different volumes for a 1 pounds piece of meat. Note that the two equation do converge when the total brine volume equals 10% of the meat weight.

Equation 1: Equilibrium. This equation assumes that the concentration of NaNO2 equilibrates between the meat and Brine. After curing is complete, the NaNO2 concentration of the brine is lower since cure had to leave the brine to enter the meat. The amount of ingoing NaNO2 changes depending on how much water is used for the Brine.

Equation 2: Pickup/injection.

This equation assumes that the amount of curing agent in the meat is determined by the weight fraction of brine that was pumped into the meat. Assuming 10% of the meat weight gets pumped into the meat, the ingoing NaNO2 concentration does not change with brine volume.

Regulations

The USDA requires that the Maximum ingoing NaNO2 does not exceed 200ppm.
Further they state the there is no regulator minimum, but that 40ppm “is useful in that it has some preservative effect.” (ref. Processing Inspectors' Calculations Handbook, 1995).

As you can see from the tables above, Pops recipe yields a brine that is too strong, or too weak depending which calculation you use.

 

[Steve H]

The brine is cheap enough. Just follow pop's recipe. You really can't go wrong.

 

[Steve H]

Thanks for the two replies. It’s not much to base a decision on.

I expected more replies. Surely I’m not the only one wondering about this.

That was pretty presumptious. Great way to start off here.