New member and needs help with busted electric smoker. PID???

[SonnyE]

OR should I add a female and male plug socket to the box for power in and power out? So power out would go to the element (I’d just use my existing power cord) and power in would just be an extension cord from a wall outlet.

Check your Conversations, (IM's PM's) I sent you an extensive explanation.
Come to think about it, ALL my conversations are lengthy. Unless it's a punch line....)

 

[theSane]

I am in the same boat. I see the replacement parts, but am unsure of how to wire the power. Could you please describe how the SSR and INKBird should be connected?

 

[AP514]

Check your Conversations, (IM's PM's) I sent you an extensive explanation.

How about Sharing :)
Kind of interested in this one..;)

 

[SonnyE]

How about Sharing :)
Kind of interested in this one..;)

Hi, Guys, I just happened to bumbel into this. Please PM (Conversations) so you are sure it will yank my chain and get my attention. Glad to help, if I can.

I brought up the online manual for the ITC-106

Yes, cord wires:
Wht - Terminal 10 of ITC. (T-10)
Blk - Terminal 9 of ITC. (T-9)
Grn - Ground to chassis, receptacle if used, carries through to all grounding needs. Never switch or fuse any ground conductors.
This is the 120V AC input to the ITC-106.

Do you have a 2-wire, or a 3 wire Thermocouple (Temperature sensor)?
Wire it according to Page 5, Subheading #4, of the manual.
If it is a two wire, be aware that T-4 & T-5 have a jumper tieing the two together. (Mine was a two wire)
If it has 3 wires (Red, Blue, Blue) wire it per the 3 wire.
This tells the ITC the temperature inside your smoker.

Solid State Relay (SSR) - The Input side of this device has a Positive (Terminal 3), and a Negative (Terminal 4).
Terminal 8 of the ITC connects to Terminal 3 (+) of the SSR.
Terminal 6 of the ITC connects to Terminal 4 (-) of the SSR.
This is the control for the SSR from the ITC.

This part is important, Because we are keeping the Over Temperature device of the MES in the heater element circuit, we want the hot leg (Black wire) ITC T-9, and the SSR T-1 connected. (NOT T-10/T-1 as shown.)
At this point I want you to look at this segment of this video.
You can follow George's advice fully if you'd like, it works. He just looks at it slightly differently than I do.
The bottom line is we want the ITC and SSR to control a receptacle that we can plug in our MES into.

(This also allows us to use our ITC with SSR to operate other things we'd like to control with temperature sensing. In my case, I have two MES's, a 30 and a 40. The 40 is destined to be a cold smoker only. It's big enough to hang meat in. So it is getting totally simplified. (already has) )
But, by cord connecting the modified OEM MES wiring, the over Temperature device stays in the smokers circuit to protect it from running away.
An important safety issue.

OK, you chew on this for a while, and come back with any questions.
It takes a bit for PM's to circulate. I can't always be in front of my computer.
Double check each wire, and over all. Because electronics are unforgiving.
You cross anything up and when you power it up, POP. At the speed of light is is junk.
Do one wire at a time, make sure it is correct, then double check it. You'd be amazed how easily a mistake can occur.
And always, ALWAYS! Unplug anything before you touch it.

Sonny

 

[river100]

Sonny
You left nothing to the imagination which is actually the way it should be when it comes to electricity :)

 

[SonnyE]

Sonny
You left nothing to the imagination which is actually the way it should be when it comes to electricity :)

Thanks River.
I'm here if any questions should come up.

Mine gave me a bit of a Hummm.... yesterday.
Apparently I poked the button that switched it to a slightly different mode. (SET)
I was wondering why it wasn't ramping up. I finally figured it out. Mine needs to be in ALT to give the right output. I had it in RUN. And in RUN, it wasn't, well, running right.
I connected a low wattage LED light to the output (Receptacle I use).
I found that quite interesting watching it pulse with the output. And as the temperature is reached, you can visibly see the pulses taper down.
I always enjoyed being able to literally see electricity working. The pulses of the light are the same as the pulses to the heater element. Once I realized it needed to be in ALT mode, everything was working fine again.
Doh!

 

[theSane]

Thanks for the help. Everything is wired up and installed in a grey electrical junction box and bolted back to the smoker.

Tested it out for a few hours. Had to adjust the thermostate reading by 30° and now it is accurate. The only oddity is that whatever temo I set, this seems to keep the smoker temp 8° below. Once it gets close, it does not keep the element on enough to reach the target temp. I can set it to 250° or 225° and the temp will stop at 242° or 217°.

Thankfully that is not a showstopper. You guys got me running again and I appreciate it.

 

[SonnyE]

Among the products mentioned on the list, which one is the best? https://startbbq.com/best-electric-smokers/

There is no "Best" Joseph. There is "What fits your needs and budget?"

Best to me would be a Smokin It, Or a The Sausage Maker Smokehouses.
But that is just My Opinion.
And at my vintage, I'm not apt to make such a commitment.
Shave 10-20 years off my dirty butt, and I'd be ordering instead of writing you.

 

[SonnyE]

Thanks for the help. Everything is wired up and installed in a grey electrical junction box and bolted back to the smoker.

Tested it out for a few hours. Had to adjust the thermostate reading by 30° and now it is accurate. The only oddity is that whatever temo I set, this seems to keep the smoker temp 8° below. Once it gets close, it does not keep the element on enough to reach the target temp. I can set it to 250° or 225° and the temp will stop at 242° or 217°.

Thankfully that is not a showstopper. You guys got me running again and I appreciate it.

I'm not sure if you can adjust the output to correct the error. But you should be able to.
As long as the element, and safety Thermodisc are in working order, using a PID to run your smoker can be straight forward.

 

[river100]

How did you adjust the thermostat reading was that a setting in the PID controller ?

 

[river100]

@ SonnyE

When I read your post about watching the output pulses of the PID controller it reminded of all the times I stood in front of my PID controlled hot air plastic welders watching the output signal.
For these I use proportional control of the elements. Instead of pulsing the element it gives a linear power output
according to the input signal in real time, kind of like a PID controlled light dimmer. I've looked into the output of the air heaters and watched the elements
go from a bright orange glow down to a steady softer orange once they reached temp. You need a "phase angle" power controller to do this.

So if used for a smoker once the PID settled down it would end up giving only the power output needed to hold the
internal smoker temp. It would be interesting to see what the element looks like once it settles down to the set temp.

You don't really need proportional control for slow reacting heating elements like those in a smoker but it would still be cool to have.

I actually bought a used phase angle power controller off ebay, $25, so I could build a proportional controller to run my MES. Only reason I never built it is PID controllers with linear output cost more and I'm cheap :). The cheapest Pro version of one with 0-10v or 4-20ma output is the SOLO PID $ 130.00, lets you see the output and has tons of features that i'm used to. I've found cheaper ones but they are limited in features and SOLO PIDs have spoiled me. Like the ability to adjust the thermocouple offset temp and a host of other things. I use auto tune and then tweak from there.

Now, since my MES element died maybe I should go ahead and bite the bullet and do this project. My initial plan was
to build both a pulsed controller and a proportional one to see which one was more efficient. I already have the parts for
a pulsed SCR setup, just need a PID with 0-10v output and a box to finish it.

 

[river100]

Linear power control.

 

[river100]

Shows PID output percentage, bottom read out. One of the features is that you can program the MAX output. So in this case I have cut the max output to around 60 %of what it can put out. So what you see is 78.5 % of the 0-60 % of the controllers max output by program.
Yup, I'm a electronics geek, but hey, it's what I do.

 

[campfire218]

Hi, Guys, I just happened to bumbel into this. Please PM (Conversations) so you are sure it will yank my chain and get my attention. Glad to help, if I can.

I brought up the online manual for the ITC-106

Yes, cord wires:
Wht - Terminal 10 of ITC. (T-10)
Blk - Terminal 9 of ITC. (T-9)
Grn - Ground to chassis, receptacle if used, carries through to all grounding needs. Never switch or fuse any ground conductors.
This is the 120V AC input to the ITC-106.

Do you have a 2-wire, or a 3 wire Thermocouple (Temperature sensor)?
Wire it according to Page 5, Subheading #4, of the manual.
If it is a two wire, be aware that T-4 & T-5 have a jumper tieing the two together. (Mine was a two wire)
If it has 3 wires (Red, Blue, Blue) wire it per the 3 wire.
This tells the ITC the temperature inside your smoker.

Solid State Relay (SSR) - The Input side of this device has a Positive (Terminal 3), and a Negative (Terminal 4).
Terminal 8 of the ITC connects to Terminal 3 (+) of the SSR.
Terminal 6 of the ITC connects to Terminal 4 (-) of the SSR.
This is the control for the SSR from the ITC.

This part is important, Because we are keeping the Over Temperature device of the MES in the heater element circuit, we want the hot leg (Black wire) ITC T-9, and the SSR T-1 connected. (NOT T-10/T-1 as shown.)
At this point I want you to look at this segment of this video.
You can follow George's advice fully if you'd like, it works. He just looks at it slightly differently than I do.
The bottom line is we want the ITC and SSR to control a receptacle that we can plug in our MES into.

(This also allows us to use our ITC with SSR to operate other things we'd like to control with temperature sensing. In my case, I have two MES's, a 30 and a 40. The 40 is destined to be a cold smoker only. It's big enough to hang meat in. So it is getting totally simplified. (already has) )
But, by cord connecting the modified OEM MES wiring, the over Temperature device stays in the smokers circuit to protect it from running away.
An important safety issue.

OK, you chew on this for a while, and come back with any questions.
It takes a bit for PM's to circulate. I can't always be in front of my computer.
Double check each wire, and over all. Because electronics are unforgiving.
You cross anything up and when you power it up, POP. At the speed of light is is junk.
Do one wire at a time, make sure it is correct, then double check it. You'd be amazed how easily a mistake can occur.
And always, ALWAYS! Unplug anything before you touch it.

Sonny

 

[campfire218]

Scratching my head. I converted mine and completely gutted all Masterbuilt wiring. Even rewired the snap disc in the back. When I plug it in, it goes through a test, then says 1p on the display. The alm light is lit and the pid is unresponsive. Won't do anything when I push buttons. I read somewhere that polarity for the power in doesn't matter. I've tried reversing them and gotten the same result. Is this Inkbird unit susceptible to cold? My garage isn't heated and is around 29° F

 

[river100]

I am not familiar with that brand. I looked at manual and didn't see it as trouble code. But that doesn't mean it is not a trbl code.
I would unhook all wiring to the PID except the 110vac for power and try again. Also if you have a meter check continuity of the thermocouple.
Then if good, then add it to the PID, so you only have thermocouple and power.

 

[campfire218]

I am not familiar with that brand. I looked at manual and didn't see it as trouble code. But that doesn't mean it is not a trbl code.
I would unhook all wiring to the PID except the 110vac for power and try again. Also if you have a meter check continuity of the thermocouple.
Then if good, then add it to the PID, so you only have thermocouple and power.

I think I may have it figured out. Had to leave for work before final testing. I think the problem may have been the wiring to the snap disc. I removed the back of the smoker and ran high temp oven wire. I wasn't paying enough attention when removing the factory wiring and ran the hot lead from the relay to the snap disc, then back to the heating element.

I was scouring the files in SMF and read that the neutral wire needs to run to the over temp snap disc. I reversed these connections and the pid appeared to start working. The run light was on and I had 122v on terminal 3 of the relay. Tomorrow morning I will reconnect the hot lead to the element and test.

Hoping it works because I have a batch of jerky marinating.

 

[campfire218]

I am not familiar with that brand. I looked at manual and didn't see it as trouble code. But that doesn't mean it is not a trbl code.
I would unhook all wiring to the PID except the 110vac for power and try again. Also if you have a meter check continuity of the thermocouple.
Then if good, then add it to the PID, so you only have thermocouple and power.

I think I may have it figured out. Had to leave for work before final testing. I think the problem may have been the wiring to the snap disc. I removed the back and ran high temp oven wire. I wasn't paying enough attention when removing the factory wiring and ran the hot lead from the relay to the snap disc, then back to the heating element.

I was scouring the files in SMF and read that the neutral wire needs to run to the over temp snap disc. I reversed these connections and the pid appeared to start working. The run light was on and I had 122v on terminal 3 of the relay. Tomorrow morning I will reconnect the hot lead to the element and test.

Hoping it works because I have a batch of jerky marinating.