Modifying a MASTERBUILT?

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Atl1530

Smoke Blower
Original poster
Jun 6, 2019
104
20
Atlanta
I have an old MASTERBUILT smoker. Parts are hard to find or nonexistent. The digital control panel screen is going out, and it's hard to see the numbers, which makes it hard to set the temp. I have looked, and new digital control panels for this model are no longer available.

All I really need is a rheostat controller to set the element. I use a third party thermometer to monitor the smoker and meat temperature.

Has anyone done this before?

Thanks
 
Hard to know about your model, but you can make one of these dumb pretty easy by rewiring the leads from the relay on the PCB directly to the power cable. I might recommend considering a PID controller when you do this, but a rheostat would work if you found one that could handle the wattage.
 
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There are dozens of posts about how to use a 3rd-party controller with pretty much any MES. Most of them are PID, which is overkill IMHO, but since you can't beat their accuracy, and since "PID" makes it easy to search the forums, why don't you try searching on that and see if you can come up with something that will work for you?
 
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Don't use a rheostat. You will waste too much power. An AC phase controller is what you need. You can also run your element with a PID controller and a solid state relay (SSR).
 
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Hard to know about your model, but you can make one of these dumb pretty easy by rewiring the leads from the relay on the PCB directly to the power cable. I might recommend considering a PID controller when you do this, but a rheostat would work if you found one that could handle the wattage.
Yes the more I think about it I am sure an on-off controller would be better then a rheostat Thanks
 
Yes the more I think about it I am sure an on-off controller would be better then a rheostat Thanks

Depends. I think the control would be better. With a rheostat you might be left making micro adjustments during a cook. That might be ok or it might be annoying. I think a controller is worth the money because I can walk off and know that the temp will remain what I want it to be. Not creep up as moisture is decreased and the food is closer to done.
 
Yes the more I think about it I am sure an on-off controller would be better then a rheostat Thanks

Hi there and welcome!

I am always a proponent of a PID controller and rewiring the MES for it.
To answer your originaly question I believe daveomak daveomak did something similar to what you initially suggested with an electrical stove controller... I think.
He should be able to give you more details and/or point you to the post.

It's all up to you but I know from personal experience that the PID controllers are nice and mine keep within 3 degrees of the set temp :)
 
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Yes the more I think about it I am sure an on-off controller would be better then a rheostat Thanks

I've been using a rheostat for 7-8 years.... Mo Betta than an on off controller IMO... The element never turns off.... You adjust it like a gas burner stove... No up and downs with the smoker temp... As the smoker warms up, or the ambient warms, you will have to turn the heat down a bit... It's a little intuitive to operate but the constant heat is worth it to me....
There is a newer SCR on the market I found.. I have 2... use them to control the heat output of electric skillets etc. and variable speed control on those immersion blenders... awesome unit.... considering cost... at 7 cents/KWH it costs less than 4 cents per hour to operate... I'm cheap but............

SCR speed/voltage controller

...
 
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That's Perfect
I pulled the digital controller off the smoker, thinking there would only be two wires coming up from the elements, but there were 4. Any advice on how to wire it up?

Thanks
 
That's Perfect
I pulled the digital controller off the smoker, thinking there would only be two wires coming up from the elements, but there were 4. Any advice on how to wire it up?

Thanks

Here is detailed info on how to rewire so the plug simply feeds power to the heating element BUT keeps the safety rollout limit switch in the mix in case of an overheating situation: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/mes-rewire-simple-guide-no-back-removal-needed.267069/

Enjoy :)
 
That's Perfect
I pulled the digital controller off the smoker, thinking there would only be two wires coming up from the elements, but there were 4. Any advice on how to wire it up?

Thanks
Under the controller you have the wires for the on board meat probe . Is that what you are seeing ? I have a gen 1 30 . It has a plug for the thermostat and a plug for the meat probe .
 
I've been using a rheostat for 7-8 years.... Mo Betta than an on off controller IMO... The element never turns off.... You adjust it like a gas burner stove... No up and downs with the smoker temp

There really isn't any effective on/off with a PID controller with these cookers. The burner is always going to be generating heat. Think of it like trying to simmer a frying pan using a full flame on the stove. You might put it on for a few moment and then take it off. You wait a bit and then put it back on. By doing this you are leveling the temp, but the pan is still hot.

The big difference in the two approaches in is usability. Say you are cooking and you need to open the door to move things around or mop something. There is a huge heat loss. A controller will recover this quicker as it will power the burner at some degree of full power (based on the PID settings) and then back off to recover to your hold temp correctly. If you so this with a rheostat you manually crank it up...guess when to back it off and then through trial and error know where to set it to hold the temp you want with the content you have etc.

There are no ups and downs with a PID controller. That's the objective of having one.
 
Under the controller you have the wires for the on board meat probe . Is that what you are seeing ? I have a gen 1 30 . It has a plug for the thermostat and a plug for the meat probe .

I will look at it again. I just assumed that there would be two wires coming up from the elements running into the controller and all the probe wiring would be separate. I guess nothing is as simple as you think it will be.
 
There really isn't any effective on/off with a PID controller with these cookers. The burner is always going to be generating heat. Think of it like trying to simmer a frying pan using a full flame on the stove. You might put it on for a few moment and then take it off. You wait a bit and then put it back on. By doing this you are leveling the temp, but the pan is still hot.

The big difference in the two approaches in is usability. Say you are cooking and you need to open the door to move things around or mop something. There is a huge heat loss. A controller will recover this quicker as it will power the burner at some degree of full power (based on the PID settings) and then back off to recover to your hold temp correctly. If you so this with a rheostat you manually crank it up...guess when to back it off and then through trial and error know where to set it to hold the temp you want with the content you have etc.

There are no ups and downs with a PID controller. That's the objective of having one.

Thank you for pointing out how incorrect I am... It's always appreciated when I'm voicing my opinion...
 
I will look at it again. I just assumed that there would be two wires coming up from the elements running into the controller and all the probe wiring would be separate. I guess nothing is as simple as you think it will be.

You had the right idea but looked at the incorrect spot.
The wires you are seeing run from a circuit board that is located in the bottom of the MES (flip it upside down and you will see the panel for the board on the bottom.

What happens is the plug runs into the back of the MES (3 wires in the plug).
The ground runs to a ground spot.
The Neutral and Hot wires run to the circuit board.

From the circuit board the neutral and hot will then be directed through braided wires onto the heating element.
The Neutral runs directly to the heating element. The Hot wire runs up into the MES to the safety rollout limit switch and then from the switch to the other prong of the Heating element.

Also from the circuit board the voltage is stepped down and run upwards to the controller on the top of the MES via the little wires you are seeing.

Putting that all together, you were close to the right idea but looked in the wrong spot. The circuit board at the bottom splits the power off between the controller on top and the heating element and that is where you were tripped up :)

The rewire works by taking the plug wires and splicing them with the Neutral and Hot braided wires that come out of the circuit board that then go on to the heating element (hot wire detouring to include the heat safety rollout limit switch). So splice the proper wires to bypass the circuit board and the controller on top and you have a dumb circuit that feeds power direclty to the heating element. (This is where a PID controller can come in and make life easy).
I hope this info helps! :)
 

Snap a photo and attach it if you need help. Seems like the controller boards vary a little, but it's pretty easy to sort out what to cut by looking at them if you can read a PCB. Happy to mark of a photo to help.
 
The big difference in the two approaches in is usability. Say you are cooking and you need to open the door to move things around or mop something. There is a huge heat loss. A controller will recover this quicker as it will power the burner at some degree of full power (based on the PID settings) and then back off to recover to your hold temp correctly. If you so this with a rheostat you manually crank it up...guess when to back it off and then through trial and error know where to set it to hold the temp you want with the content you have etc.

There are no ups and downs with a PID controller. That's the objective of having one.
I agree.

The rheostat wastes a huge amount of energy and generates a lot of heat. It would not be my first choice for controlling something that is close to 1,000 watts. If you want to go that route, at least use a triac light dimmer (as SCR is not as good because it only works on half of each AC voltage cycle).

However, any sort of controller that uses a temperature sensor to turn the heating element on and off will give you much better temperature control and, as correctly pointed out by "pounce," will recover the temperature much faster after you've opened the door.

So, this is really what you should use.

These controllers are so inexpensive and so easy to wire (there are dozens of threads in this forum on how to do it), that there is no reason not to do it that way.
 
I doubt that anyone is really using a true "rheostat" to control the power to their smoker heating element.

People sometimes use the word "rheostat" (incorrectly) to mean a power controller of any type.

Technically, a rheostat is simply a variable resistor. This is distinct from a potentiometer in that it has only two terminals versus the three of a potentiometer.

For a rheostat to be used to control the power of one of these 800 to 1200 Watt heaters, the rheostat must be sized to handle dissipating the power created in the portion of its resistive element that has been set to be in series with the heater. The worst case ends up being near one end of that element when you've adjusted it to give almost, but not quite, full power to the heater. In that range, the current through that small section of the element will be near its highest, and that heating will be concentrated into a small area of the element.

Thus, usually, rheostats will be rated for a maximum current rather than a maximum power dissipation.

In any case, a true rheostat would be very large to handle the current that one of these smokers' heating elements would draw.

Further, using a rheostat to control the power to a heating element becomes rather unintuitive because of the non-linear relationship between the amount of rotation of the knob, and the power to the load. Sometimes you see specially-wound rheostats that have a non-linear character designed to compliment a specific heating element or load so that the power to the load will be somewhat linear with respect to the rotation of the shaft.

But what people normally mean, when they say "rheostat" is an SCR or TRIAC based phase control device like a lamp dimmer.

Most SCR-based units use "back to back" SCRs to achieve full-wave control. These are usually more rugged than the TRIAC-based units.

Nobody really uses rheostats these days. And even in the past, for high power applications, people usually used variacs (variable transformers) to both maintain linearity of control and efficiency.

So I'm pretty sure, when someone says they are using a rheostat to control their smoker, what they mean is that they're using a phase control device.

You can get small phase control units meant to control the speed of small motors and the like. And that's likely what folks mean by "rheostat" these days.

I, too, prefer an actual temperature controller. And I prefer a controller that employs proportional control so that temperature cycling is minimized. PID is nice, and very inexpensive to implement these days, so that's what you often see.

In any case, as tallbm and others have pointed out: It's almost a blessing that your unit's controller has failed. A better controller may well be a noticeable improvement over the stock system.

But be advised: You will need a different means of generating the smoke if you go with one of these replacement controls because the heating element won't cycle on full blast at times the way the stock controller makes it do. So the chip burner won't work.
 
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Simgo Thanks for you input
daveomak is using one of these which is what you're talking about I think. I like the idea of the elements not turning off and keeping a very steady temperature. Any reason shouldn't is one of the ends. There are less than $20.


 
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