Jerky temp and time for smoker

[muralboy]

1/4" thick - kind of took the queue from several of the comments I've seen on the forum.  

I really appreciate the collective brain trust and experience here.

thanks!!!

 

[lil tom]

How the heck do you keep the meat so red. Every time I let mine cure for 48 hours it turns gray and ugly looking. It tastes good but I think the appearance could be more pleasing.

 

[muralboy]

I'm using a wet cure for about 8-10 hrs. Plenty of flavor and salt

 

[valleypoboy]

Can anyone explain the "no smoke" for the first hour? I understand that the meat will be wet when first put in, but that's when you'll get the best smoke penetrating too. Is it a worry of over smoking the meat?

 

[tropics]

Can anyone explain the "no smoke" for the first hour? I understand that the meat will be wet when first put in, but that's when you'll get the best smoke penetrating too. Is it a worry of over smoking the meat?

Lets the meat dry so it will take on smoke

Richie

 

[daveomak]

Can anyone explain the "no smoke" for the first hour? I understand that the meat will be wet when first put in, but that's when you'll get the best smoke penetrating too. Is it a worry of over smoking the meat?

That's not what I find to be true... Pellicle tacky surface is the best for good, clean tasting, not acrid, smoke flavor....

 

[muralboy]

I pat it dry to remove the excess moisture, not worried about getting it dry.  Smoke is going right away.  about 2-3 hours.  Turned once or twice throughout the smoke moving pieces around depending on hot spots.

 

[kooltimes]

That that temperature appears high to me.  You will cook rather than dry the jerky.  160 degrees is more like it for about 4 - 5 hours.

 

[hayskip]

I'm confused. You talk about internal temp. But on jerky it is so thin you I you get a thermometer into he center.

 

[daveomak]

I'm confused. You talk about internal temp. But on jerky it is so thin you I you get a thermometer into he center.

In the case of jerky, you just have to make an educational guess on the IT...  the bacteria still needs to be killed for food safety....  On relatively thin meats, time at a lower temperature will suffice...   below is a chart that shows the time meat has to be at a given internal temp to pasteurize it...   using the chart, meats can still be moist without overcooking....

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FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

Temp °F / Time for 5.0 log Reduction

Unit Time

130..........86 min.

131 ..........69 min.

132......... 55 min.

133.......... 44 min.

134.......... 35 min.

135.......... 28 min.

136 ..........22 min.

137 ..........18 min.

138 ..........14 min.

139.......... 11 min.

140 ...........9 min.

141........... 7 min.

142 ...........6 min.

143 ...........5 min.

144 ...........4 min.

145 ...........3 min.

146 .........130 sec.

147......... 103 sec.

148 ...........82 sec.

149 ...........65 sec.

150........... 52 sec.

151........... 41 sec.

152........... 33 sec.

153 ...........26 sec.

154 ...........21 sec.

155 ...........17 sec.

156 ...........14 sec.

157 ...........11 sec.

158 .............0 sec.

159 .............0 sec.

160 .............0 sec.

The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.

This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes (Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).

________________________ 1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.

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Poultry Time and Temp

　

Temperature........

...................... Time

°F (°C).............. 12% fat

136 (57.8)......... 81.4 min

137 (58.3)........ 65.5 min

138 (58.9)........ 52.9 min

139 (59.4)........ 43 min

140 (60.0)........ 35 min

141 (60.6)........ 28.7 min

142 (61.1)........ 23.7 min

143 (61.7)........ 19.8 min

144 (62.2)........ 16.6 min

145 (62.8)........ 13.8 min

146 (63.3)........ 11.5 min

148 (64.4)........ 7.7 min

150 (65.6)........ 4.9 min

152 (66.7)........ 2.8 min

154 (67.8)........ 1.6 min

156 (68.9)........ 1 min

158 (70.0)........ 40.9 sec

160 (71.1)........ 26.9 sec

162 (72.2)........ 17.7 sec

164 (73.3)........ 11.7 sec

166 (74.4)........ 0 sec

Table C.2: Pasteurization times for a 7D reduction in Salmonella for chicken and turkey (FSIS, 2005).

　

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Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min... 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min.... 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min.... 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min.... 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min.... 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min.... 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min.... 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min.... 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min.... 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min.... 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min.... 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min...... 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min...... 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min.......
144 (62.2) 5 min.......
145 (62.8) 4 min.......

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

 

[hayskip]

Thanks Dave.

 

[sigmo]

I second the thanks to Dave!

It's great to have wise advice about all of this.

I read something from a link I found posted on this forum somewhere, where they made the point that you need to pasteurize the meat before it dries because some of the "bugs" go into a more hardy, heat-resistant state once they've been dried.

This is the link:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/co...631a/Seminar_Jerky_Guidelines.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Reading that kind of spooked me because I don't think I've been getting the internal temperature high enough while the jerky is still wet to achieve what they wanted in that publication.  But I also realize that they're shooting for a "shelf stable" product that will keep for long periods at room temperature.  I have been storing my jerky in the freezer (vacuum sealed) or in the refrigerator for the stuff we're working on.  And I will keep some out at room temperature for up to a day or so, and I've had no problems.  And the stuff has been delicious, too!  :)

BUT:  I also use cure #1 in the marinade, and that must qualify as an anti-microbial agent.  So I figure that's got to help.

Still, that publication was pretty strict.

I worked on a temperature control system for a smoker in a small meat packing plant one time many years ago.  It was interesting to get a tour of the place.  They took sanitation very seriously.  But what was interesting, too, (although I didn't understand the full ramifications at that time) was that this big smoker did use steam injection and some kind of water spray system.

I don't think they did jerky, but they may have.  Mainly, they made sausage.  I was under the impression, at the time, that the water and steam was to wash off the outsides of the sausages and keep them from drying out.  I didn't think about this idea that you need to have the high humidity present in order to effectively kill the bacteria.  Reading that link above makes me think that another benefit of the steam/water injection was to assure adequate lethality.

Naturally, I don't do anything like that when I'm making my own jerky.

Nor do I oven cook it at 275 for ten minutes as the "post-drying heat step".

But again, I don't consider my jerky to be "shelf stable" at room temperature, and I am using cure #1, and that document never mentions the use of nitrite.

It's all somewhat confusing.

What do you guys (especially Dave) think?

 

[daveomak]

I think it is important to submit any safety precaution to the meat you are preparing...   from sanitizing the prep zone, wearing gloves, cleaning the equipment etc...   Whole muscle meats are basically sterile on the inside...   when you cut into them, the cut surface is compromised...

Smoking meats requires cure #1 to prevent botulism from fish to beef, poultry and pork etc...  from observation to smell, as far as I know, we can't detect botulism...  it's even in dirt...   potatoes, garlic etc...  I don't know if cure #1 has a place on veggies but it couldn't hurt when low oxygen atmosphere packaging is being used...   I'll have to dig up on that...

Non smoked meats, such as dehydrator jerky, need a pasteurization process...  160 ish in the brining liquid is a good one...  then into the dehydrator....   or elevated temps in the dehydrator or oven until the pasteurization process is done then into the dehydrator to finish...  before the meat dries out... 

Now I know all this sounds like BS... but, when your kid gets one of those exotic pathogens you'll kick yourself for a long time.....

The absolute worst argument against any of this is, "I been doin' it this way all my life and never got sick."....   Well I'm sure some folks aren't alive to tell us their story...   or don't want to admit their kids got really sick because they didn't follow good safe food handling practices...

Anywho.....  I'm just here reading stuff and passing on what I think is worth posting...  I'm no food police... just interested in learning...    take it for what it is worth to you, and don't gimme any krap over it...  

1SMILE BIG.png

• daveomak
• Aug 14, 2016

..............

 

[hayskip]

Dave no krap needed to give. I love the info I recieve. We all need the folks that do the reading and passing along of the info.

 

[daveomak]

Dave no krap needed to give. I love the info I recieve. We all need the folks that do the reading and passing along of the info.

Some folks don't see it that way....    Thanks very much..... 

 

[sigmo]

I agree.

Everything related to food safety should be taken very seriously.

I hope nobody gives you any crap over posting anything related to this subject!  It's all welcome and important in my opinion.

I'm still confused, though.

It seems that I should be bringing my jerky up to 160° while it's in the marinade before I hang it in the smoker.  Then, after it's smoked and dried, I should also be baking it in the oven at 275° for ten minutes.  That way, I'm meeting the guidelines for lethality set forth in that document.

However, they don't mention using nitrite - which I do, because I always use cure #1 for jerky, as recommended by many on here.

I just want to make sure I'm being as safe as necessary when I make my jerky.

 

[daveomak]

 
I agree.

Everything related to food safety should be taken very seriously.

I hope nobody gives you any crap over posting anything related to this subject!  It's all welcome and important in my opinion.

I'm still confused, though.

It seems that I should be bringing my jerky up to 160° while it's in the marinade before I hang it in the smoker.  Then, after it's smoked and dried, I should also be baking it in the oven at 275° for ten minutes.  That way, I'm meeting the guidelines for lethality set forth in that document. 

While in the brine, taking to 160 kills all the bacteria...   that is the only step you need to do....    The 275 deg thing is for commercial manufacturers that may, inadvertently, dry their jerky prior to bacteria being killed...

However, they don't mention using nitrite - which I do, because I always use cure #1 for jerky, as recommended by many on here.

Nitrite additions are two fold....  enhancing the flavor of meat and prohibiting the formation of botulism in an oxygen reduced environment such as a smoker...   dehydrators have plenty of oxygen and botulism is not a problem....

I just want to make sure I'm being as safe as necessary when I make my jerky.

Ask away if I missed anything.....   Dave

 

[sigmo]

That makes sense.

And certain smokers may be even more oxygen-deprived than others due to the burning of the fuels and the smoking wood, etc. So it seems like a very reasonable precaution to use the nitrite cure.

What I have not been doing, but certainly will in the future, is to bring the meat up to 160 while it is in the brine so I'm sure to properly pasteurize it before smoking it.

I'm glad that you posted that link and those charts. I love the home-made jerky. But the last thing any of us needs is to get (or worse, give someone else) some foodborne illness! That would take all of the fun right out of it!

Do you recommend heating the meat/brine before or after the soak phase of the brining?

Would the heating be best done at the beginning, to get everything killed right off, and maybe get best penetration of the brine, too?

Or do we want to murder the bacteria as close in time to the smoking as possible?

Botulism, like some other bacterial food poisoning, is particularly nasty because it creates a toxin that can kill even if you subsequently cook to a high temperature because the toxin is not destroyed by cooking. Yechhh! :)

Scary stuff.

Tabbed in.

 

[daveomak]

What I have not been doing, but certainly will in the future, is to bring the meat up to 160 while it is in the brine so I'm sure to properly pasteurize it before smoking it.

I'm glad that you posted that link and those charts.

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Looking at the charts, when you add the meat to the brine, and say you are going to marinate for 24 hours or so in the refer, after the brining time heat the meat in the brine to one of the recommended time / temps to insure it is pasteurized...   or to 160 for zero seconds and you are good to go....

 

[sigmo]

 
What I have not been doing, but certainly will in the future, is to bring the meat up to 160 while it is in the brine so I'm sure to properly pasteurize it before smoking it.

I'm glad that you posted that link and those charts.

---

Looking at the charts, when you add the meat to the brine, and say you are going to marinate for 24 hours or so in the refer, after the brining time heat the meat in the brine to one of the recommended time / temps to insure it is pasteurized...   or to 160 for zero seconds and you are good to go....

OK.  So we should do the pasteurization at the end of the marinating phase.

I'll give that a try next time.  I marinaded the last batch for 48 hours all in one huge vacuum-sealed bag (another reason for using the cure).  It was heavy!  It had about 10.7 pounds of meat in it, plus the marinade!

A guy could just dump that mixture out into a covered pot and heat it in the oven until all of it reaches 160°.

Or, I might do it in more smaller bags next time, and then I could just take them out of the fridge and drop them into a sous vide bath at the desired bug-killing temperature for long enough to get the contents up to the desired temperature for long enough to get the job done.

You'd just want to make sure that all of the meat/marinade actually gets to the correct temperature for the required length of time.

Those charts you posted will be handy.