I Need a Possible Explanation

[beernuts]

On Thanksgiving Day I loaded up two 13 lb turkeys into my MES 40 and started the temp at 230 degrees. The turkeys were brined supermarket types the were preinjected at the factory. I fully expected to begin a seven to nine hour smoke so I went inside to prepare the other parts of the meal. As I checked on the birds it became apparent the interior temp wasn't getting above 212 degrees on the display and there was a lot of humidity in the smoker. I wrote it off to the humid heat and went back to the kitchen. When I checked again an hour later it was still 212 but the internal temps were hitting 140+. This was over a period of three hours. I turned the heat to 275 hoping to get to my 230 temp but it never went higher. It stayed at 212. An hour later I had 170 in the breast meat and 175 in the thigh. I pulled them out for a rest and they were done. My question is why did they cook so fast? They had a good smoke ring and tasted great but I still wonder what was going on. Any ideas?

 

[netbbq]

I'm a new smoker but have diligently researched this site and as I understand it a brined bird will cook faster than an unbrined one.  I was expecting 6 hours on my 12 lb turkey and it took closer to 5.  I suspect it has to do with the moisture in the bird and the temp of the smoker. 

 

[s2k9k]

Sounds like something wrong with your display. Did you check smoker temp with any other thermometer?

Yesterday was a fast smoking day, I saw a lot of threads where turkeys were getting done faster than normal. I've seen days like this before, must be something in the stars!

 

[linguica]

Ignore the MES temp indicator and rely on a properly placed dual probe unit like the Maverick

 

[sigmo]

It's intersting that the temp stuck at 212. The probe for smoker temp is low and in the back. Was one of the turkeys touching the tip of that probe, perhaps?

That would fool the readout and the controller both, of course. So the indicated temp would be whatever the surface temp of the turkey was right where the probe was touching it. If it's wet, then that temp would always be no higher than boiling (212 at sea level).

So if you had the temp set to something higher than 212, the controller would turn the heating element on full blast to try to get the probe up to that setpoint. But the probe cannot get above boiling. So the heating element would stay on full blast and the actual temp in the smoker would be very hot! In fact, the emergency cut off could end up limiting the temp.

Anyhow, if the turkey was touching the probe, that would explain every symptom you had.

Try a dry run with nothing in the smoker and see if you can get the smoker up to temp.

Phoned in.

 

[deltadude]

Beernuts, well it seems all turned out great, that is good.   There can be several reasons for the readings, so rather than guess, lets look at some things that can help.

1st you need a 2nd source for both the internal temp of the MES and also the meat temp.  Before I bought the Maverick 732 I used used two Taylor digital probes and run the cables through the MES vent.  In addition I used a cheap oven analog dial thermometer inside the MES wedged in a rack so I just had to barely crack the door to see the temp.  You can get by with just the analog thermometer to check cabinet temps and take meat temp readings with a inexpensive but accurate stem dial meat thermometer.

The MES temps are known to be inaccurate, you have to know what you are really cooking at and what the actual temp of the meat is.

Next, the 2nd law of thermo dynamics is in play, "heat always goes to cold".  This is the reason you preheat your smoker, to get all that metal warmed up so the heat is then going to the meat.  Those two birds are giant heat sinks, heat is going to the cold meat, it will take awhile before the smoker temp registers accurately.  I have noticed this when smoking like 6 or more racks of ribs, or 3 or more pork butts, it takes hours before the cabinet temp sensors gets to the set temp of 225º, yet the meat is cooking just fine and might only take an extra 30-60 minutes of actual cook time.  Maybe this is the reason most stove ovens only show you what temp you set the oven for not the actual cooking temp?

As pointed out, it is wise to make sure the internal cabinet sensor is clear and nothing touching it.

Turkey's take about 30-40 minutes a pound at a temp of 225-250º, however yours was brined so the transfer of heat/cooking would be faster.  Understand, cook times are just general rules of thumb, use a meat thermometer to know when it's really done.  You might consider next time weighing the turkey's after they are thawed out, they may not weigh as much as what they say on the package.  Anyway the cook time should have been about 6-7 hours, you didn't give the final total cook time but it reads like about 5 hours, so not off too much, enough for to account for the brining.

You might want to try brining the bird yourself, it is an extra step but reaps huge rewards in, flavor, tenderness, meat moistness, and even promotes a more even cooking of the entire bird.  Brining provides a small cushion for error if you over cook your bird by 10 degrees, it will still be tender and moist.  The brining process is a way to make sure all parts of the meat are at the same temp.  Brining will normal reduce cooking time about 30-60 minutes depending on the size of the bird and how much liquid was absorbed.  Water is a heat conductor and therefore expedites cooking.  Last, brining may help inhibit growth of certain types of bacteria (if the process is done correctly).

A simple brine from multiple cooking books: brine is simply 2 cups kosher salt or 1 cup table salt dissolved in 2 gallons cold water in large stock pot or clean bucket. Submerge the turkey and refrigerate or set it in very cool (40F or less) spot for 8 - 12 hours. Remove the turkey from the brine and rinse both cavity and skin under cool water for several minutes until all traces of salt are gone. Pat dry inside and out with paper towels; set aside.  NOTE: it is very important that the water temp be at or less than 40º, during the entire process. 

 

[chef jimmyj]

Just a guess...Was the top Vent open? There was a member here awhile ago that modified his MES 30 to be 100% leak proof. He would put water in the water pan and start smoking and got Crazy short cook times, like 2 1/2 hours to fall of the bone ribs set to 225*F. Turns out he was " Steaming " everything he smoked in the MES. That high Humidity and 212*F sounds an awful lot like a similar situation...JJ

 

[deltadude]

Just a guess...Was the top Vent open? There was a member here awhile ago that modified his MES 30 to be 100% leak proof. He would put water in the water pan and start smoking and got Crazy short cook times, like 2 1/2 hours to fall of the bone ribs set to 225*F. Turns out he was " Steaming " everything he smoked in the MES. That high Humidity and 212*F sounds an awful lot like a similar situation...JJ

I rem that, I had to apologize because I didn't believe him.  However we never did see pics?

Excellent question BTW Chef Jimmy J

 

[beernuts]

The vent was open and I made sure there were not turkey parts touching the little thingy that sticks out from the cabinet back. I wonder if the brining had something to do with it. There was a lot of moisture in there. It was also about 45 degrees out when I started.

 

[sigmo]

The vent was open and I made sure there were not turkey parts touching the little thingy that sticks out from the cabinet back. I wonder if the brining had something to do with it. There was a lot of moisture in there. It was also about 45 degrees out when I started.

When I did a turkey on last Thursday, it was also in the 40s. We also had a pretty steady breeze bu not what I'd consider to be wind (not by our standards, anyway).

My MES 40's 1200 Watt heating element was on 100% of the time for at least the first hour, which held the temp at about 268 (with the temp set to 275).

So it wasn't able to get the smoker up to the setpoint. But it was high enough to do what needed to be done. After a few hours, the temperature did get up to the setpoint, and the heater started cycling on and off.

My MES's door seals well, but I had the vent completely open and the chip loader and chip tray pulled out quite far to give maximum ventilation so as to keep the AMNPS burning well. So I had quite a bit of ventilation drawing through the smoker.

You also had two turkeys to my one.
I had the drip pan dry (again, to help the AMNPS to burn reliably).

But my turkey had been brined, too. So I don't think the brining caused the problem. The extra "turkey load" had to keep yours cooler than mine, but I would not have thought it would make that much of a difference.

I think you should fire up the smoker again, but without any food, and without any water in the tray.

Then see if it will heat up properly. Try setting the temp up to 275 and see of it can get the chamber up to that temp. You might also keep track of how long it takes it to get up to 275 (assuming it ever can).

Let us know what happens.

Also, remember that there are two temp sensors in the cabinet, as well as the third (meat probe) sensor. One is up high, and is the emergency cut-off. The other is a slender probe, about 1/8th" in diameter and a half inch or so long. It's the one lower in the cabinet. That is the probe in question.


Phoned in.

 

[venture]

I am not a watt burner, and I would not know what to expect.  40 deg doesn't seem that cold.

I am in the camp for verifying the pit temps.  But then I am a thermo freak.  Never saw one I didn't want to buy, and I never have enough of them.

Good luck and good smoking.

 

[sigmo]

I agree. Gotta verify what's really going on.

And I'll be curious to see how my MES does when it gets really cold out. I know I'll want to do some smoking this winter, and it'll be a lot colder than 40!

I may need to build a shelter.

Phoned in.

 

[smokinhusker]

Verify the therms. I just did a 12 lb yesterday, spatched and brined. MES set for 275*, cabinet temp stayed right at 260* but the wind was howling here (not uncommon), outside temp was low 30's with 25* or so wind chill. Breast was at 144* after 3 hrs, then it slowed down and took approximately 2.5 - 3 hrs to finish.

Sigmo - BF built me a plywood cabinet and I smoke all year long, even with the "breezes" we have most of the time.

 

[sigmo]

I may build a shelter, too. I'm in central Wyoming. We get a lot of wind in the winter. But we can't let that stop us, now can we? :D

And, if done right, I wouldn't need to tarp the smoker between uses for fear of rain and snow. That would be very convenient!


Phoned in.

 

[smokinhusker]

Here's some pics of mine:

https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/f/f0/900x900px-LL-f07812ba_DSC_0309resize.jpeg

https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/9/94/900x900px-LL-946b88ad_DSC_0311resize.jpeg

https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/9/9b/900x900px-LL-9bcb5cbe_DSC_0312resize.jpeg