Hot dog advise

[archeryrob]

Ok, below is the recipe for the last time I made deer dogs. I like them, but I want to make them more meaty. 5# of deer to 3# of Pork butt to 2# pork fat is making 29% on my calculator. Should I drop some fat?

The skin is not like a commercial skinless dog either. It meat like instead of like a firm skin. How do you get the firm skin under a cellulose case? I have been smoking in the smokehouse and low temp and going up.

Also, if I cook any water leaks out. I have been finishing these up for lunches and if I microwave any for a quick meal water just leaked out.

Suggestions for changes on texture, meat texture and proper skin.

 

[gmc2003]

I'm of no help on this topic, but I'll bump it up to get a little more airtime. Someone should be able to help you out.

Chris

 

[tallbm]

Ok, below is the recipe for the last time I made deer dogs. I like them, but I want to make them more meaty. 5# of deer to 3# of Pork butt to 2# pork fat is making 29% on my calculator. Should I drop some fat?

The skin is not like a commercial skinless dog either. It meat like instead of like a firm skin. How do you get the firm skin under a cellulose case? I have been smoking in the smokehouse and low temp and going up.

Also, if I cook any water leaks out. I have been finishing these up for lunches and if I microwave any for a quick meal water just leaked out.

Suggestions for changes on texture, meat texture and proper skin.

I'm not sure I can help much but here is what I can contribute.

If you want meatier dogs then go 8 pounds of venison and 2 pounds pork fat.
Since venison is closer to beef it should give you more of a meaty flavor than when you add the milder farm raised pork but meat in the mix.
I successfully do all of my venison sausages at 80% venison, 20% pork fat and 8 pounds venison with 2 pounds pork fat is exactly 80/20. They always turn out amazing... when I don't goof up and miss adding seasoning to the mix hahahah.

I can't help with the cellulose casings BUT if you want to fight with lamb casings it could help you make a better hot dog. You won't have skinless texture but you will be surprised at how close you get. Lamb casings are so delicate that they work very very very well when I make pork franks. I just don't like fighting with them.
No water leak issues either. Here is a pic of my lamb skin franks, they look very very close to store bought (the dark spots are from venison brat meat, I was too lazy to clean out the stuffer when I switched to franks hahaha):

DSC_8940[1]

• tallbm
• Nov 3, 2017

One thought did cross my mind that may help with the "skin" when using celulose casings. Have you tried a double smoke?
What I mean is you smoke them and then when they are all done you peel the casings. Then throw them back in the smoker again.
This may make a "skin" of some kind and seal up the dogs so. That way when you microwave them they dont just leak out everywhere. I've never done it but I imagine they would get a skin like my cured venison pastrami loaves here:

DSC_0344[1].JPG

• tallbm
• Jun 8, 2017

DSC_0341[1].JPG

• tallbm
• Jun 7, 2017

I hope some of this info helps :)

 

[Bearcarver]

Hey Rob,
This would be my goto guy on Hot Dogs---

DanMcG

Give his originated posts a search.

Bear

 

[DanMcG]

Thanks Bear.
I never played with the skinless dogs much, I just like the snap of a casing. But I think Tallbm has the right idea, after you cook them and chill in an ice bath, let them bloom and then toss them back in the smoker with a pretty good air flow and I bet you'll get something like a skin.
Is that water leaking out fat? I personally like the fat around 20% but that's me. I bet you aren't getting enough of a bind when mixing. your mix should be very sticky, like hard to get it off your hands sticky.
I don't see anything wrong with your recipe or process, although I like to take them to 154° or higher. Again that's just what I do.

 

[chopsaw]

Agree with the above . I'm with Dan on the bind . I see 1 cup water and 1 cup nfdm per 5 lbs . I know those are common amounts , but I hardly ever use that much any more . I layer in the seasonings , then start adding water and NFDM a little at a time until it gets sticky . Like said hard to get off your hands . Then I stop there . The amount used varies from batch to batch . That might help with the meaty part .
I add phosphates to mine also . Helps to emulsify and what ever water you add is staying in there .

I cooked mine start to finish in the SV . Next time I'll smoke first . If I smoke to finish I would go to 152 or there about .

 

[archeryrob]

The wife is not much on deer flavor, so I mix pork in with sausage, hot dogs and bologna at 50/50 to thin it out. I would, but it is due to her. I can change to more pork butt and less fat to get to 20% or even try ground beef over fat and a pinch of pork fat if I need to raise the fat.

Yes, they water was fatty or half and half with a distinct yellow coloring. I know pork fat is white. maybe the mustard was coloring it.

would the second smoke be without the casings, or with them?

I had bought these casings, but not that much. The 26mm just seemed too small to me.

 

[DanMcG]

would the second smoke be without the casings, or with them?

I had bought these casings, but not that much. The 26mm just seemed too small to me.

I'd strip them out of the casing then let them bloom, and then a warm smoke with some airflow.
I like the 26's The 31's would be to fat for me. Maybe 28's would work for ya?

Here's some skinless dogs I made years ago, but I guess I never really did a good job of updating it.
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/skinless-dogs.103043/

 

[tallbm]

The wife is not much on deer flavor, so I mix pork in with sausage, hot dogs and bologna at 50/50 to thin it out. I would, but it is due to her. I can change to more pork butt and less fat to get to 20% or even try ground beef over fat and a pinch of pork fat if I need to raise the fat.

Yes, they water was fatty or half and half with a distinct yellow coloring. I know pork fat is white. maybe the mustard was coloring it.

would the second smoke be without the casings, or with them?

I had bought these casings, but not that much. The 26mm just seemed too small to me.

Hmmm, you could use pork sirlion or pork loin to add more meat with little fat and then use 20% pork fat. Those cuts at costco are fairly cheap but not pork shoulder/butt cheap (maybe $1.69/lb in North Texas).

The only issue I see with pork sirloin and pork loin are that they are quite delicate in flavor so I'm not sure they would give you a "meatier" flavor but they would give you a meatier texture and hot dog overall.

Now if you shot you some wild/feral pigs THEN you would get GREAT flavor. That wild pork is so tasty and is almost like a different meat when compared to farm raised pork. In this case make sure your hot dogs hit an internal temp of 165F to kill any microscopic parasites.
I do this with my wild pork meat and it means I have to walk the smoker temp up to 180F which I do properly and don't get fat out :)

I hope this info helps!

 

[archeryrob]

I like the wild flavor, but the wife is a city girl taste wise. I am not trying to add more wild taste, but cover it with blended meat and spices. I just got Dark Cornish chickens to be a breeders flock to raise my own meat birds from eggs next year. I can't wait to hear, these aren't as plain a Perdues.

If I do 5# of deer 4# of pork butt and 1# fat I get 22%
5# deer and 5# pork butt I get 15%
5# deer and 5# 73% ground beef I get 14%

What do you think of those changes?

 

[tallbm]

I like the wild flavor, but the wife is a city girl taste wise. I am not trying to add more wild taste, but cover it with blended meat and spices. I just got Dark Cornish chickens to be a breeders flock to raise my own meat birds from eggs next year. I can't wait to hear, these aren't as plain a Perdues.

If I do 5# of deer 4# of pork butt and 1# fat I get 22%
5# deer and 5# pork butt I get 15%
5# deer and 5# 73% ground beef I get 14%

What do you think of those changes?

I would go with the option "5# of deer 4# of pork butt and 1# fat I get 22%"
strictly to keep >= to 20% fat. I've never done a 15% fat sausage and if I recall I think 20% is the rock bottom or is close.

I don't know that switching to beef or anything with beef fat will still give you the "hot dog" flavor. The sausage would be good, but I don't think it would taste like hot dogs. I say this because my beef and beef fat usage experiences tend to take on quite a bit of a beefy flavor.

I do 80% venison and 20% beef fat to make my pastrami loaves and that 20% of beef fat totally makes things beefy in flavor like pastrami.

Also my dabbling with beef/pork sausages changes the flavor to more like Texas style hot gut and bbq house type sausages rather than hot dogs... all good but just not hot dogs.


By all means though, feel free to experiment in small batches with the options you are considering because we don't know exactly what they are like if we don't try lol :)