Help with 5lb Choice brisket flat

[husker3in4]

So I picked up a 5lb brisket flat at Costco yesterday, was planning on smoking it this weekend. I finally got my old and favorite smoker working again (MES 30" gen 1, thanks to tallbm and others on this forum!) and am eager to give it a go.

Im not going to trim it much, and have my rub ready to go.

Now for some questions:
1. Should I apply the rub early, wrap in plastic wrap and let it sit for hours, or over night, or not at all?

2. What temp should I smoke it?

3. How long should I "EXPECT" it to take for the full smoke? I know to start checking around 185ish with a toothpick to see if its done. Im looking for zero resistance, like jello. Just trying to get a ballpark so I know when to put it on the smoker as I work saturday mornings.

4. I know smoke flavor is a personal preference, what is your favorite and why?

5. I dont usually use a water pan in my MES but havent smoked a brisket in it before. I dont even know where it is these days. Do I need to put an alum pan under it with some water to make sure it doesnt dry out?

6. Fat side up or down?

7. Should I place it on the tallest rack (farthest away from heating element) or does it matter?

Thanks guys!

 

[zwiller]

I am getting ready to undertake my first brisket and researching heavily. Pretty much everything you are asking is debatable and whatever choice you make odds are still in your favor it will turn out well. The key to brisket is the rest after smoking. I am getting into central TX style cue and just picked up Aaron Franklin's book and it is basically a treatise to brisket and the theme is to keep it simple. Here are my answers and while I am influenced by Franklin’s technique I differ on a few things.

1. My beef rub is equal parts salt, pepper, and granulated garlic. I plan to apply at least overnight uncovered and form a pellicle prior to smoking.

2. 275F

3. No idea here yet but wager 6-8 hours. One thing Franklin really emphasizes is not to pull based on IT but feel.

4. Oak or Traeger’s Texas Beef Blend

5. No water in pan. My water pan is called a drip tray. Line with foil.

6. Be sure and trim SOME of the fat off but I vote fat side down for better bark. I don't think it matters really. I read some guys even flip...

7. I plan to place mine 2nd rack.

Good luck!

 

[husker3in4]

Thanks for your reply. Are you smoking a flat or packer? How much does yours weigh?

I cant find the water pan that came with it, so I will likely use a disposable aluminum pan on the bottom rack. Are you also using a MES?

 

[tallbm]

So I picked up a 5lb brisket flat at Costco yesterday, was planning on smoking it this weekend. I finally got my old and favorite smoker working again (MES 30" gen 1, thanks to tallbm and others on this forum!) and am eager to give it a go.

Im not going to trim it much, and have my rub ready to go.

Now for some questions:
1. Should I apply the rub early, wrap in plastic wrap and let it sit for hours, or over night, or not at all?

2. What temp should I smoke it?

3. How long should I "EXPECT" it to take for the full smoke? I know to start checking around 185ish with a toothpick to see if its done. Im looking for zero resistance, like jello. Just trying to get a ballpark so I know when to put it on the smoker as I work saturday mornings.

4. I know smoke flavor is a personal preference, what is your favorite and why?

5. I dont usually use a water pan in my MES but havent smoked a brisket in it before. I dont even know where it is these days. Do I need to put an alum pan under it with some water to make sure it doesnt dry out?

6. Fat side up or down?

7. Should I place it on the tallest rack (farthest away from heating element) or does it matter?

Thanks guys!

Here is my suggestion and my experiences:

1. I think you can go any which way you want with applying the rub just be sure NOT to over salt it as the flat is a big piece of meat but not super thick like a pork butt or a whole packer brisket so you CAN over salt it more easily than you think.

2. I say go ahead with 275F BUT flats are reported to be a little tricky like Chucks. I've never smoked just a flat but I have smoked Chucks and chucks seem very similar in the fact that they can dry out on you. I believe brisket flats may behave very very similar to Chucks in this regard.

3. At 275F I would thing about 50 min a pound or so... maybe a little less, maybe a little more.

4. I personally would recommend Lumberjack 100% Mesquite pellets. In the AMNPS you won't have to worry about producing bad smoke. I'm convinced that Mesquite gets a super bad rap for being so strong because it's smoke is harder to control since it is a very very hot burning wood. The AMNPS solves all of that to give you perfect Mesquite smoke. If youve never had it well, Mesquite and beef..... is out of this world good!!!!!

5. I'm not sure where to go with this one. My MES experience with chucks (similar to flats) would be to not go with water in a water pan BUT wrap the flat in foil at about 165-170F with a few splashes of your favorite liquid (wine, beer, apple juice, water, etc.). I wouldn't be apposed to someone saying to go with a water pan for a flat or a chuck smoke, I just personally have never used one so I can't really comment on how it would help/hurt your situation in the MES.

6. I've done both in my MES and I decided on fat side up. It seemed juicier on my packer smokes. I wouldn't mind revisiting the debate but I also don't know why I would mess with my approach in my MES since it is producing outstanding brisket! I also wouldn't worry about trimming a flat too much. Extra or even excess fat may help keep it from drying out and the fat drying/burning/crusting would definitely protect the meat better with nothing really lost.

7. In an MES I try to use the lowest rack as much as possible because that is where I can get the most consistent temps. As I move up on racks in my MES the temps seem to drop a little and my MES has to work harder to get to or keep those temps.
With a brisket what I do is I put a double foiled pan (usually a disposable one) on the bottom rack.
I then lay a 2nd MES smoker rack right on top of the pan (not in the rack holders/grooves) and put the brisket on that rack.

This allows the brisket to NOT sit in it's own juices, be as low as possible, and allows me to catch all juices in the foil I plan to wrap my brisket in! Additionally I ball up and throw any good meat trimmings into that pan so that they sit in the juices and become either burnt ends consistency or chopped beef consistency. Nothing goes to waste if I can avoid it!

When the brisket is done I pull out the rack that is resting on the pan. I then put the brisket back in the pan.
I take the pan inside and I use the double layer of foil to wrap the brisket right there as it lays in the pan and foil.
What I get is instant double foil wrapped brisket with all of its juices with little to no fuss!!!
At this point I wrap my double foiled brisket in 3 bath towels and let it rest until time to eat. The rest is usually 4 hours or so as do my briskets overnight and plan everything so it comes off about 4 hours before lunch time hehehehe.

The joys of an MES and an AMNPS so I can set and forget and wake up to a completed brisket that just needs wrapping and resting! :)

I hope all of this info helps :)

 

[Bearcarver]

Here's the only Brisket Flat I have in my "Step by Step" Index.
There's probably some info in there you can use:
Brisket Flat

Also in all of my MES units, if I only use one rack, it would be the second from the top. It's the most consistent. I never use the bottom rack because it's too close to the Heating element.

Bear

 

[husker3in4]

Thanks for the info guys! Im a little worried at cooking it at 275 for just the flat. If I were to cook at 240 or 250, would it take much more than an hour per lb? I will be putting it on about 7am and want to eat no later than 6pm and need to account for at least 2 hrs of rest time.

I will likely apply the rub tonight and let it sit in the fridge overnight. Should I wrap it tightly with saran wrap, or put it in a pan and just put foil over the pan before putting in the fridge? Ive seen people applying Worcestershire sauce before applying the rub, thoughts?

Im torn between pecan and mesquite..

Here is another thing on the smoke, my whole business with working on this smoker to get it working again, is it works well with wood chips as it is designed. The gen 2 that I have doesnt, it only burns the first load of chips and the rest just turn black without burning. On my gen 2 I have a mailbox mod + an AMNPS but Ive always liked the results from my gen 1 and the wood chips better. With that in mind, I have pecan, cherry and mesquite chips that I will be loading every 30 mins until it hits 160. So in any case, I have an AMNPS but wont be using it for this smoke.

I do plan on putting an aluminum pan under it, its a great idea to double foil it to make it easy to put the brisket directly into it and wrap right away! How do you keep those drippings from drying up in ur double foiled pan over the duration of the smoke?

Last thing, now you have me thinking about a chuck roast. They are another big chunk of meat, but cheaper than brisket so do smoke it the same way? rest the same time? Slice the same way?

 

[tallbm]

Thanks for the info guys! Im a little worried at cooking it at 275 for just the flat. If I were to cook at 240 or 250, would it take much more than an hour per lb? I will be putting it on about 7am and want to eat no later than 6pm and need to account for at least 2 hrs of rest time.

I will likely apply the rub tonight and let it sit in the fridge overnight. Should I wrap it tightly with saran wrap, or put it in a pan and just put foil over the pan before putting in the fridge? Ive seen people applying Worcestershire sauce before applying the rub, thoughts?

Im torn between pecan and mesquite..

Here is another thing on the smoke, my whole business with working on this smoker to get it working again, is it works well with wood chips as it is designed. The gen 2 that I have doesnt, it only burns the first load of chips and the rest just turn black without burning. On my gen 2 I have a mailbox mod + an AMNPS but Ive always liked the results from my gen 1 and the wood chips better. With that in mind, I have pecan, cherry and mesquite chips that I will be loading every 30 mins until it hits 160. So in any case, I have an AMNPS but wont be using it for this smoke.

I do plan on putting an aluminum pan under it, its a great idea to double foil it to make it easy to put the brisket directly into it and wrap right away! How do you keep those drippings from drying up in ur double foiled pan over the duration of the smoke?

Last thing, now you have me thinking about a chuck roast. They are another big chunk of meat, but cheaper than brisket so do smoke it the same way? rest the same time? Slice the same way?

I personally would just put it in the pan and cover the pan with saran wrap.
I don't know that Worcestershire sauce is needed on a brisket. Briskets are usually seasoned quite liberally so the W-sauce may not really shine through at all and it would be shame since it isn't cheap. I go Salt, Pepper, Garlic, and Onion on my brisket. Many go just Salt and Pepper. All I have to say is add salt separately so don't over salt it and you can go pretty hard with the black pepper :)

I can't really offer you any advise on using the chips because I never have with my MES. I am very big on Mesquite with beef BUT that is only if you can get proper smoke with mesquite wood. If you can get good smoke with your mesquite chips then I say go all mesquite. If you can't then I would probably blend a some mesquite with your pecan so you don't over power the meat with too much mesquite smoke that is less than ideal. Briskets and chucks are quite hardy and can handle a good amount of smoke. I think if you want all pecan you would be robbing yourself a little of what the meat can do with some good strong wood smoke (not thick white smoke but hardy wood smoke).

For the drippings in the pan there usually aren't a whole lot. What helps in my case is the fact that I ball up all good trimmed meat (it has the fat attached) and put it in the pan. Those trimmings produce a good amount of drippings along with what the brisket produces. The drippings are enough to keep the meat in the pan from completely burning up and I end up with burnt end consistency more often than not. You could always put any trimmed fat in there or do like smoking all does and put your trimmed fat on a rack over the brisket so it bastes the brisket as it cooks to keep it moist :)

Again I've never done just a brisket flat BUT I have done chuck roasts. I personally would do a flat almost the exact same way as I do my chuck roast on my first Flat only try. I would basically just pull the Flat at a lower IT then I take my chucks. This is just me though.
Chucks are usually done for pulled/chopped beef where briskets are usually sliced (though chopped brisket is actually my favorite :eek:).
Since chucks are usually pulled apart and they can want to dry out on you, they are usually smoked to a certain temp (160-180F), then wrapped with some liquid (wine, beer, juice, beef broth, water, etc.) and then often brought to a little higher IT than brisket (205-210F). The chucks are then pulled apart.
I've eaten many a smoked chuck that I thought was chopped brisket in my life so they can taste similar but I have never eaten a sliced chuck, only ever pulled so I can't tell you if it would be similar to sliced brisket if cooked for slicing.

I hope this info helps! :)

Here is an image of my pulled chuck when I did my first smoked one to give you an idea:

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• tallbm
• Jun 24, 2017

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• tallbm
• Jun 24, 2017

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• tallbm
• Jun 24, 2017

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• tallbm
• Jun 24, 2017

 

[husker3in4]

That sound good! I will likely do a mix of mesquite and pecan then, or alternate one and the other every 30 mins.

I dont plan on trimming it much, unless I find some hard fat or Im just cutting off the thin side of the flat to keep it uniform thickenss - I will put that in the pan underneath. I still may put a pan in a pan with a little water between the pans which should keep drippings from drying up.

Im getting hunrgy looking at all this food pron!

 

[tallbm]

That sound good! I will likely do a mix of mesquite and pecan then, or alternate one and the other every 30 mins.

I dont plan on trimming it much, unless I find some hard fat or Im just cutting off the thin side of the flat to keep it uniform thickenss - I will put that in the pan underneath. I still may put a pan in a pan with a little water between the pans which should keep drippings from drying up.

Im getting hunrgy looking at all this food pron!

I think you will be fine with your ideas.
On full packers I got of my trimming fear and I always trim the flat of the brisket so that it is close to uniform thickness all over. I learned after a couple of smokes that the thin part just burns up and is not very usable.
My approach of cutting it and balling it up with other trimmed meat and putting it in the pan below the brisket (fat side down in the pan) works for me quite well to get some burnt ends out of that good meat rather than unusable burned up meat attached to my brisket lol.

I was already wanting to do a brisket soon and all of this brisket talk is probably going to make me go do one within the next few of weeks lol :D

 

[husker3in4]

I totally agree. Combing these forums for information has led me also to smoked burger talk, and of course smoked chuck talk.. Im doing the brisket tomorrow and a batch of smoked chicken wings on sunday. Im thinking next week will have smoked burgers (no bun, wife and I are on Keto) in there somewhere, and smoked chuck next weekend!

 

[tallbm]

I totally agree. Combing these forums for information has led me also to smoked burger talk, and of course smoked chuck talk.. Im doing the brisket tomorrow and a batch of smoked chicken wings on sunday. Im thinking next week will have smoked burgers (no bun, wife and I are on Keto) in there somewhere, and smoked chuck next weekend!

Wow looks like a you will be eating well over the next two weeks!

I've yet to do a smoked burger.
I did smoked wings the other day where I applied double smoke from the AMNPS for 90 min at a temp of 275F and then finished them on the grill so the skin would be edible.
You gotta watch chicken skin becoming leather in the MES. It's a temp thing with chicken not a direct issue with he MES itself. I find I can consistently get edible chicken skin at 325F and up but the MES only goes to 275F so you may get luck and not have leather but I always did at that temp.

The solutions seem to be to not completely cook the chicken with skin/wings in the smoker but pull them early and finish them on a hot grill or over a hot flame or in a hot hot oven, so the skin can become bite through or even crispy as apposed to leather.

Last month I did an experiment at 275F for 90 min of smoke and cooking and then on the grill for about 10-15 minutes worked out perfectly! I did a double row burn for double smoke from the AMNPS. The smoke flavor was satisfactory but could have used a bit more. No complaints though. I used 50% Pit Boss Competition Blend (PBCB) with 50% of straight Perfect Pellet's Hickory (it is 100% hickory). I think next time I will do 75% of the Hickory and 25% of the PBCB to get more smoke flavor in that short time.

I need to try smoked burgers too but have yet to do so.
I can say that on a similar note, my smoked meatloaf is AWESOME!!! I use my mother's meatloaf recipe which is amazing to begin with but then when you smoke it... wow it's in a whole other dimension!

 

[husker3in4]

Thanks for the tip on the smoked wings. Wings were my very first smoke attempt in my Brinkmann Gourmet smoker (electric vertical water smoker). They turned out great, but I dont remember what did or didnt do, haha. I think I was planning on smoking the wings on sunday @ 250, I may go up to 275 and finish on the grill with your suggestion.

Im very curious about your meatloaf, care to share that top secret recipe?

 

[tallbm]

Thanks for the tip on the smoked wings. Wings were my very first smoke attempt in my Brinkmann Gourmet smoker (electric vertical water smoker). They turned out great, but I dont remember what did or didnt do, haha. I think I was planning on smoking the wings on sunday @ 250, I may go up to 275 and finish on the grill with your suggestion.

Im very curious about your meatloaf, care to share that top secret recipe?

I can share it with you but I don't have exact measurements as it is an eyeball recipe for the most part. I was wanting to get an exact recipe but that will have to wate. My meatloaves lately have been comprised of my blandly seasoned venison brats where I squeeze the meat out of the casings hahaha. I was in such a hurry when I made them this year I left out a whole cup or more of seasoning :eek:
So I've been repurposing the venison brat meat for things like meatloaf, taco meat, spaghetti, etc. lol.

I'll Private Message you with the loose details and some day when I run out of my venison brat meat and I do a meatloaf from ground 80/20 beef I'll take the care to measure things out :)

 

[husker3in4]

The brisket was smoked this past weekend. Overall it turned out pretty decent, good flavor, moist & tender enough. I have found it to be better on the reheat tho. I cut a few slices off and put them in a covered pan on med low heat with a chunk of the saved drippings (mostly fat) for about 10 mins.

As far as the smoke went, I wasnt a fan of the mesquite scent while it was smoking, I like the other woods much better, but what counts is the flavor and it was very nice :) I did not wrap, it took about 9 hours to finish. I started it at 225F and jacked it up to 275F about 6 hours into it as it was stuck in the stall and I was getting hungry! I started probing with a toothpick at 180F and pulled it at 201F . It wasnt as slide-in-easy as I would like but I didnt want to over cook it. Wrapped and rested for 2 hours and sliced at 163F.

I think the only way to improve it would be to inject with broth or the butchers bbq (phosphates) which I will likely try next time. Thanks to you all for your help. Here is some Q-view!

 

[husker3in4]

On another note, I followed a recipe I found here and another place for the wings. A rub/oil recipe and a recipe for "Alabama White BBQ sauce".. both were a disappointment. The wings were kinda dry and the while the rub/crust looks good, they didnt taste great. The sauce should have been named "super vinegar sauce" and was pretty much a waste of ingredients. In the future for doing wings I will go back to my old way, which is putting them in the smoker, plain, for about an hour or so at 250, then either eating them as is or with a little thinned bbq sauce. Some Q-view for what its worth:

 

[tallbm]

Guys here can attest that flats can be tricky. It is good to hear that the flavor was about on. It seems that other areas of the cook will need to be tweaked. Injecting may help or wrapping in foil with a little liquid (like a chuck) may help. The good thing is you get to eat the test runs and I bet it would chop up and make bbq sandwiches no problem :)

As for the wings, they are even easier to explore. I think you can get your flavor/seasoning profile cleaned up really quickly with your desired approach or just a simple seasoning of the wings. Getting an edible skin texture will be the other area to keep an eye on.

Keep on smoking and you will perfect it in no time :)