Featured Help me design my outdoor space

[Binford 6100]

Mods, if this isn't in the section, feel free to move it. (A outdoor cook space/ kitchen sub would be nice)


Anyway, my and my wife have decided to build a outside screened pavilion, outside kitchen, and deck.
Construction will start in spring 2022, so no worries about lumber prices yet. Going to call it a pavilion due to it just being a sqaure box.

I am just looking for input on layout and thoughts of what's important and what's not.
Right now my deck is rotten and it needs replaced. So I figured why not build a outside area with under roof cooking area.
I have no interest in a 3 or 4 season porch, I have a nice great room and a fully finished basement I enjoy.

So my thought is to replace the deck and add a 20x20 room that is screened in with a basic gable roof.
I figure 20x20 will give me enough space for a cooking wall, a seating area, and a table/eating area. Obviously budget can force a change in the size. But right now we are thinking we can spend 35k for Construction. (Lumber prices obiously, may change things)

The additional deck won't be huge. Probably about 10 feet from the back door to the entrance to the pavilion,
Probably about 12 feet long.

Anyways, on the back wall I'll have a length wise counter with a fridge, seasonal sink, and a built in grill at a minimum. I would like to add a smoker, a flat top, and a pizza oven of sorts.

Thats a big list. But I'm in the dreaming big faze right now and want to plan best case scenario and chop from there to meet budget.

So I ask you guys with these spaces already set up. What are your thoughts?
What kind of grill, charcoal or gas, what kind of smoker, how do I vent the smoke? What kind of flat top? Do I try to build out an island or sorts or push it all up against the wall?

Is 20x20 "to" square or should it be a rectangle?
I would like to tile inside to make it nice. What's a good outdoor tile to use?
Should the wall I cook against be a soild wall to help combat heat loss?

The list goes on and on.
Feel free to add anything you feel is pertinent. I’ve never had a space like this or been around something like it to know what works or doesn't.
Thanks.

 

[JLeonard]

I have absolutely no input for you. But I for sure hope that I am around for finish pics as this is my dream set up also.
Jim

 

[Binford 6100]

I have absolutely no input for you. But I for sure hope that I am around for finish pics as this is my dream set up also.
Jim

It all good. I hope to use this thread to park ideas and hopefully get a sense of what works vs doesn’t, and what seems like pipe dreams and maybe aren't worth it.
Growing up my mom has a smaller gazebo, we used it to eat in it, on nice summer nights. I have two young girls under 3 right now, so I feel like a nice outdoor space to hang out in will be beneficial. One of my girls was born on Sept 1st, so we will always be hosting labor day birthday parties at a minimum.
We like to host parties (gives me an excuse to smoke meat) but our house isn't super big and can get cramped with lots of people easily. So we don't have alot of people over at once. Hoping this can kinda fix that problem as well as a nice hang out spot for the family.

 

[JLeonard]

I can understand that. My patio is like 10x10 and is bricked on 3 sides....Setting sun shines right into it, and it becomes a brick oven. I want a bigger patio but there is no way to expand it. Just trying to hold out til my son graduates HS (5 years) and we are hoping to build our dream house in the country.
Jim

 

[Binford 6100]

I can understand that. My patio is like 10x10 and is bricked on 3 sides....Setting sun shines right into it, and it becomes a brick oven. I want a bigger patio but there is no way to expand it. Just trying to hold out til my son graduates HS (5 years) and we are hoping to build our dream house in the country.
Jim

Luckily we own a spot that I can pretty much build whatever I want size wise. Just how much I can and want to afford to put into the project.

 

[JCAP]

I have no input to add except that we just had a 13x27 patio installed in our yard and, per the wife's orders, I'm only allowed one piece of it for grills. I can only fit three across the 13' part and the rest are confined to areas behind. All that is to say that the grill 'footprint' caught me by surprise so plan more than I did!

 

[Binford 6100]

My only thought is that I plan on the smoker and grill to be built in. I would really like to have the smoker built as a built in made out of brick. But I also think that having a built in big green egg might be a good way to.
But I've never smoked or use a commercial smoker. Just my homemade double barrel.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Can't say that I can offer you much advice either... but looking forward to the responses you get! We want to build some type of patio in our backyard also. We live in the country on top of a hill and with a south wind get blasted on the porch.

Ryan

 

[Colin1230]

20x20' is a good size. My covered patio (it's below a four season sun room) is 12 x15' and too small with two grills and a four chair outdoor dining set.
One thing to think about is the predominant wind direction and have the wall block it. Also, an alternative to tile is stamped and stained concrete. It looks fantastic on an outdoor patio.
My brother built an island that is his food prep station. It has a sink and a 12 volt pump from an RV with 5 gallons of fresh water and drains into a 5 gallon bucket. It is all hidden behind nice cabinet doors. The concrete countertop turned out very nice, wish I had pics. It provides a great place to wash hands. This is just an idea thrown out there to help with the budget.
I'll add one more thing, a 20 amp electrical circuit is a must have. You don't want extension cords. Oh, you also want an outdoor ceiling fan.
Hope this is helpful.

 

[eddiememphis]

Since you will have a roof, consider how to vent both smoker and grill. A cupola could help, especially if you add a fan in it. Otherwise think about a chimney of some sort to get the smoke up and away, especially if at some point you may enclose it for winter use.

Plenty of electricity is a must, including lots of lighting, properly installed of course. And you can never have too much counter area. Tile, stone or concrete are all great outdoor surfaces but still need cleaning and sealing.

 

[bill1]

They may be too small for you, but you may want to check the HomeDepot's and Amazon for pergola or gazebo kits. They tend to come with a cupola-style roof to aid ventilation and let smoke out and most have available side curtains. Even if it's just temporary (until lumber comes down in price) it gets you some shaded area for $500-1500. The steel roofs probably will last a decade or two and the cloth ones probably just 3-5 years.
And look into acid-stains for concrete...they can be very striking.
And do a google image search on BBQ Islands...a lot of good ideas there. If you're handy and can build your own, Jie Jin and Mophorn on Amazon offer some very reasonably priced drawer and cabinet units. And don't forget a couple dorm 'fridges. One facing out for guests and one facing in for the chef!

 

[Binford 6100]

Thanks for the replies guys. Great ideas. I can touch on some of the stuff now.
My backyard is much lower then the house, so it's going to be a raised deck off the back of my house.
So concrete style patio won't work.
I get some pictures and post them.

I like the idea of concrete counter tops. I have been wanting to some for years, but won't commit to my house kitchen for them.

The roof will be steel. No question about that.
The deck is rotten and needs to be replaced, while I look at roofs for a temporary situation regularly it's not worth it until the rotten deck is replaced.

As far as electrical goes, I'll put two big fans in it and I'll have plenty of power, as I have an abandoned in place conduit with three 20 amp circuits in it. This conduit runs right next to where the new screened in area will be, so I just need to dig up and connect it.
I abandoned it late last year when I put in a new 100 amp service to power my welders in my garage.

For water I think I will run a set of cold and hot water, that will have drains and internal shut off vavles for winter.
Then for a drain. I plan on getting one of the 275 gallon IBC caged totes.l to drain into for gray water.
Then I can just pump that out at the end of the year or as I need to.

 

[Binford 6100]

Just a few quick pictures of the deck, you can see the elevation change.
As far as keeping it that level, I like that it's even with the house.

As far as being handy goes, I figure I'm handy enough, I've worked in construction basically in one form or another my whole career. I will use my bobcat to remove all the landscaping and the old deck. And I plan on using helical piles for foundation piers. I also screw them in myself. But as far as building the structure, I build all day everyday, I'll let someone else build this for me. Lol. I don't want a summer long project, I want to be done in a few weeks. I'll add all the finishing touches . But the deck and structure can be contracted out.

When I get a chance I'll draw up a basic blueprint for your guys throughts

 

[smokin peachey]

Just a few quick pictures of the deck, you can see the elevation change.
As far as keeping it that level, I like that it's even with the house.

View attachment 500301View attachment 500304

As far as being handy goes, I figure I'm handy enough, I've worked in construction basically in one form or another my whole career. I will use my bobcat to remove all the landscaping and the old deck. And I plan on using helical piles for foundation piers. I also screw them in myself. But as far as building the structure, I build all day everyday, I'll let someone else build this for me. Lol. I don't want a summer long project, I want to be done in a few weeks. I'll add all the finishing touches . But the deck and structure can be contracted out.

When I get a chance I'll draw up a basic blueprint for your guys throughts

Next pic we want to see you on the car rolling down that ramp

 

[3montes]

I am in a very similar situation. I have a 16X24 outdoor pavillion already built up at our lake property so I will be following this thread. The uprights are steel with a metal roof. We have a mat that lays on the ground that keeps the weeds from growing and you can actually walk in there barefoot but I will be pouring a concrete slab. My stick burner occupies the six foot section in the rear so that leaves me a space of 16X16 to work with. I plan on building 36" walls and adding counter tops of a undecided material.

Don't need a built in gasser. The stick burner handles nearly everything that needs to be smoked or grilled. I am going with a 36" counter top griddle with a wind break built around it. The exterior of the walls will be metal siding that matches the post frame building in the background. Other than that the rest is pretty much a blank canvas. Like you Binford I have considered concrete counter tops but two things in life are guaranteed. Death and cracked concrete! My neighbor is doing something very similar and is using concrete counter tops so I'm going to see how his come out.

Perhaps we can bounce ideas off one another Binford. Here is a pic of what I'm starting with.

 

[bigfurmn]

Ok call a negative sky is falling guy, but having worked in many different areas including electronics (follow me here I'm thinking electrical). I'm curious about the built in idea. Only for the reason of if/when something breaks, how much work is it to get it out of the deck set up? I prefer stand alone units as it's easier to adjust our replace them.

 

[Binford 6100]

Ok call a negative sky is falling guy, but having worked in many different areas including electronics (follow me here I'm thinking electrical). I'm curious about the built in idea. Only for the reason of if/when something breaks, how much work is it to get it out of the deck set up? I prefer stand alone units as it's easier to adjust our replace them.

If I built a brick offset smoker, built in. With an iron door, and a brick chimney, what's there to break?

Don't focus to much on the built in. If I bought a commercially made smoker, yes I would build it in. But I think I would do it in such a way it's serviceable and replaceable. Like your dishwasher or oven. Those are technically built in, but removable and replaceable if needed.

 

[bill1]

Thx for the pics. Forget my slab idea (with acid stained concrete); your back slider door is considerably elevated from ground level so a deck is a natural. But if you want it enclosed and with a roof, you better start getting estimates...the structure itself may consume your $35k budget leaving no $ for appliances, etc. Some cost-savings measures could include corrugated steel panels for roofing (sounds nice in a light rain) and the use of shade cloth ("sail cloth") or window screen for walls.
I agree the stairs look shot but the 2x6 deck boards look pretty good...maybe you can flip them over and re-use them and just firm up the under-support?...it probably needs new footings, re-leveling, and a general refurbishing.
I don't have a good sense of scale (the 1st picture makes the deck look tiny; the 2nd makes it look huge) but it appears the existing layout has room for an island for serving off to the right (as you come out of the house) and your cookers can go behind it. And then your chairs and tables can be where you have them now.

 

[Binford 6100]

Thx for the pics. Forget my slab idea (with acid stained concrete); your back slider door is considerably elevated from ground level so a deck is a natural. But if you want it enclosed and with a roof, you better start getting estimates...the structure itself may consume your $35k budget leaving no $ for appliances, etc. Some cost-savings measures could include corrugated steel panels for roofing (sounds nice in a light rain) and the use of shade cloth ("sail cloth") or window screen for walls.
I agree the stairs look shot but the 2x6 deck boards look pretty good...maybe you can flip them over and re-use them and just firm up the under-support?...it probably needs new footings, re-leveling, and a general refurbishing.
I don't have a good sense of scale (the 1st picture makes the deck look tiny; the 2nd makes it look huge) but it appears the existing layout has room for an island for serving off to the right (as you come out of the house) and your cookers can go behind it. And then your chairs and tables can be where you have them now.

I wish the decking was good. It's not, I bought those outdoor carpet rugs to put down because it's soft, the decking actually has some holes in it. Big enough that my 2.5 year old could probably loose a foot into if she stepped just right.
The deck is about 25 years old. Which in northern IL is probably a avg lifespan.
I replaced some deck boards 3 years ago, thinking it was a isolated issue. When I got old one pulled up I stated to paw around on the 2x10s underneath and realized they too were soft.
I used some rubber membrane in that area to try to mitigate any more rot, but honestly I think it's time for a whole remove and replace.

 

[PNHuber]

Following, pre planning is the way to go, I just finished our roofed deck build and I left an area unroofed for grills and smokers figuring I would have plenty of room for 5 grills. I now am finding it a bit difficult to arrange things for the perfict fit.