Grey area in nduja that has been curing for one week

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

Hi
I have been curing nduja for one week now - inclusive of fermenting at 90% humidity at the 23 d temp. I have two chubs which are cased in hog bungs and one in a large 50 mm collagen casing. The curing temp has been fluctuating between 75-90 5 humidity at 12-14 degrees temp. I'm using a wine cooler and have only till now been using a hygrometer for monitoring. I used two guys and a cooler recipe, I didn't cold smoke it . I noticed today that the chub in the collagen casing has started to discolour to a grey / green colour at the bubble knot and in what looks to be a piece of fat in the nduja. This isn't mould but seems to be in the actual pork meat inside the casing. Any ideas what this might be?

• 454 grams Pork Shoulder
• 454 grams Back Fat
• 454 grams calabrian pepper paste
• 6.5 grams fennel seeds
• 3 tsp minced garlic
• 30.5 grams kosher salt
• 3.4 grams Insta cure #2
• 2.5 grams dextrose
• 4 grams table sugar
• 13.5 grams Calabrian pepper powder
• 10 grams smoked paprika
• 4 tbsp red wine
• 1 tsp liquid smoke OPTIONAL- If you don't have a cold smoker
• Flavor of Italy Starter Culture re-hydrate 1/2 tsp of starter in 1/4 cup of distilled water for every 5 pounds of meat/fat. Let this rest for 30 minutes
• mold 600 re-hydrate 1/2 tsp of mold in 1/2 cup of non-chlorinated water. This will do about 5-10 pounds of salami. Let sit at room temp for at least 5 hours before use

 

[indaswamp]

post pics. of the area of concern...

 

[SmokinEdge]

454 grams calabrian pepper paste

13.5 grams Calabrian pepper powder

This is astonishing to me. The amount of Calabrian pepper! The fermentation is absolutely uncontrollable.

 

[indaswamp]

This is astonishing to me. The amount of Calabrian pepper! The fermentation is absolutely uncontrollable.

SmokingEdge, I thought so too when I made my first batch of nduja 18 months ago... But here is what I have learned:

Nduja has an obscene amount of fat in it...like 65% fat. When emulsified with 35% meat scraps, there is not a lot of free water in the salami to start off with (fat having ~15% water and meat having ~70-75% water). Adding salt binds up even more water. Nduja is done @15-20% weight loss. To kick off fermentation, additional water is added in the form of the pepper paste. By the time the culture has consumed the fructose from the peppers, enough water is lost during the dripping phase that this stops fermentation before the glucose can be broken down. It also helps to use a culture that only breaks down fructose and dextrose and has trouble with glucose and sucrose....

 

[indaswamp]

What brand of pepper paste did you use? Some pepper pastes have preservatives added that will affect the culture used and kill fermentation. The one in your link has vinegar added so that will lower the pH of your starting Ndjua....

 

[SmokinEdge]

SmokingEdge, I thought so too when I made my first batch of nduja 18 months ago... But here is what I have learned:

Nduja has an obscene amount of fat in it...like 65% fat. When emulsified with 35% meat scraps, there is not a lot of free water in the salami to start off with (fat having ~15% water and meat having ~70-75% water). Adding salt binds up even more water. Nduja is done @15-20% weight loss. To kick off fermentation, additional water is added in the form of the pepper paste. By the time the culture has consumed the fructose from the peppers, enough water is lost during the dripping phase that this stops fermentation before the glucose can be broken down. It also helps to use a culture that only breaks down fructose and dextrose and has trouble with glucose and sucrose....

Well, that’s interesting, and I’ve never made Nduja, that said, Marianski doesn’t list any recipes with 1/3 or more of the mince as pepper powder or paste. This Is excessive in my view but I will defer.

 

[indaswamp]

Well, that’s interesting, and I’ve never made Nduja, that said, Marianski doesn’t list any recipes with 1/3 or more of the mince as pepper powder or paste. This Is excessive in my view but I will defer.

I have watched a youtube video tour of a famous Nduja processor in Italy. They used the same ratio of fat: shoulder: pepper paste.....

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

Thanks for the replies ,
The Calabrian chille paste I used didn’t have any vinegar added

I have just cured my first batch of Nduja after fermenting for 12hrs and curing for 31 days at 12 d 70-80%Rh. I used bactoferm and Prague #2 . After fermentation for 12 hrs at 23-25 d my Nduja tested 4.6 on the meter.
Now after losing almost 30% on each small sausage it still reads at 4.6 ph . It doesn’t smell bad and had an ok colour besides some areas of grey meat on the outer part of the meat - I think where I had pricked the casing after stuffing. Does this sound safe to eat ???

Thanks in Advance.
Avril

 

[indaswamp]

What was the humidity while fermenting?

 

[indaswamp]

I noticed today that the chub in the collagen casing has started to discolour to a grey / green colour at the bubble knot and in what looks to be a piece of fat in the nduja. This isn't mould but seems to be in the actual pork meat inside the casing. Any ideas what this might be?

How fresh was the meat?
Did you treat the surface with mold 600 and if not, did you apply potassium sorbate to the casing surface?
Please take pictures and post them, it will help greatly diagnosing the issue.

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

What was the humidity while fermenting?

What was the humidity while fermenting?

It was 90-95% humidity

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

How fresh was the meat?
Did you treat the surface with mold 600 and if not, did you apply potassium sorbate to the casing surface?
Please take pictures and post them, it will help greatly diagnosing the issue.

Meat was from our own pigs , butchered by a local butcher and then frozen for about 3 months. I defrosted the meat for this recipe

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

Meat was from our own pigs , butchered by a local butcher and then frozen for about 3 months. I defrosted the meat for this recipe

Didn’t use any mould 600 but wiped down sausage casing with vinegar and water solution after stuffing

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

Thanks for the replies ,
The Calabrian chille paste I used didn’t have any vinegar added

I have just cured my first batch of Nduja after fermenting for 12hrs and curing for 31 days at 12 d 70-80%Rh. I used bactoferm and Prague #2 . After fermentation for 12 hrs at 23-25 d my Nduja tested 4.6 on the meter.
Now after losing almost 30% on each small sausage it still reads at 4.6 ph . It doesn’t smell bad and had an ok colour besides some areas of grey meat on the outer part of the meat - I think where I had pricked the casing after stuffing. Does this sound safe to eat ???

Thanks in Advance.
Avril

 

[Av Ni Mhurcu]

Edit 24-30hrs fermenting at 20-23d @ 90%humidity

 

[indaswamp]

Please post pictures. Pictures can tell the story much better. I really can't help you without looking at it.

 

[indaswamp]

Did you add any potassium nitrate or potassium chloride to the meat paste? Potassium addition can enhance a greening effect on meat.

 

[jcam222]

Following out of interest and the fact I LOVE nduja. I figured the fat content was high as it’s essentially spreadable. I did nduja stuffed chicken breast last year.

 

[indaswamp]

SmokinEdge :
https://lucianoschipano.com/nduja-recipe/

 

[indaswamp]

Well, that’s interesting, and I’ve never made Nduja, that said, Marianski doesn’t list any recipes with 1/3 or more of the mince as pepper powder or paste. This Is excessive in my view but I will defer.

Just saw this while looking on Maranski's site for Ventricina recipes...new Updated information on Nduja:
https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-recipes/fermented/italian/nduja