FS Cure injection

[Dicky]

I’m injecting a brisket to make pastrami. I’m having trouble finding the recommended amount of FS cure , also known as insta cure #1 that has 5% nitrite. I’ve done lots of ground sausage with this but I’m nervous of the amount they tell me to use for brine. I’m nervous because I inject the brine then put the meat in the remaining brine for another 4-5 days. I’ve been told to use 170g per gal water but I feel this is away too strong? I think 170 is likeky more for soaking with no injecting.

 

[JC in GB]

When I have done pastrami, I used a similar brining method to yours.

How I execute it is by weighing the meat and adding 10% of the meat weight in water. Using metric units is far easier than English units.

I mix the spices, salt, and nitrate and inject the meat. I used eye of round.

You are shooting for 2.5 to 3 grams of cure #1 per kg of weight. Meat and water.

You may have to strain your brine for injecting.

There are recipes available on this site for pastrami spicing.

Example:

Eye of round - 2.2 kG
Water - 220 mL
Total - 2420 grams - 2.42 kG

2.42 * 3 = 7.26 grams of cure #1 for this quantity of meat and water.

This is an equilibrium brine which means you cannot over brine it. Once the salt levels in the meat and water reach equilibrium, your cure is done.

JC

 

[Dicky]

Thanks very much JC

 

[JC in GB]

Thanks very much JC

You are quite welcome. I wish you success in your pastrami cure.

JC

 

[tallbm]

I’m injecting a brisket to make pastrami. I’m having trouble finding the recommended amount of FS cure , also known as insta cure #1 that has 5% nitrite. I’ve done lots of ground sausage with this but I’m nervous of the amount they tell me to use for brine. I’m nervous because I inject the brine then put the meat in the remaining brine for another 4-5 days. I’ve been told to use 170g per gal water but I feel this is away too strong? I think 170 is likeky more for soaking with no injecting.

Hi there and welcome!

I do very much like JC in GB

Below is a link to a very simple online calculator to figure this stuff out.
The key things are:

• Cure#1 at 6.25% (or adjust to your cure #1's % in the calculator since other countries have a different %sometimes. The calculator will do the heavy lifting)
• The weight you use is Meat + Water weight (calculator mentions just meat but if you are doing a liquid brine you have to include the water weight as well)
• Salt % you like. I prefer 1.65%, i don't recommend going over 2%

I put my meat in a container and start measuring out 64 fluid ounce pitchers of water (1 gallon/128 fl oz = 8.333 pounds in weight).
I keep track of how many I'm pouring in!

When I am getting close to covering I know how much water it is going to take and I can then determine the water weight BUT I hold back that last 64oz before pouring it in.

I calculate enter the water + meat weight into the calculator and adjust my salt to 1.65%

The calculator gives me all my Cure #1, Salt, and Sugar weights.

I then measure out my Cure #1, Salt, and Sugar and I pour some of the last pitcher of water into a blender along with the Cure #1, Salt, and Sugar, and blender it till it is 75% dissolved or better.

I pour that dissolved slurry of water into the bucket with the meat and pour the remaining water in as well.

THEN I take my meat injection syringe and draw that liquid from the tub and inject the meat all over about 1.5-2 inches apart.

Now I know my meat will cure inside-out, and outside-in and will do so fast.

Cure and salt travel at like 1/4 inch per 24 hours so I figure out how many days it has to travel to be fully cured. I add an extra day or 2 and I now have my curing time figured out.

Pretty simple once you figure out how to calculate everything.

I hope this info helps :)

Digging Dogg Cure Calculator Link:
http://diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

 

[thirdeye]

Dicky, welcome aboard!

Both JC in GB and tallbm are describing an equilibrium curing method, meaning with accurate measurements you won't over-cure or under-cure your product. Injecting some of the same curing brine is a great option and will insure coverage. You still want enough curing brine to cover the meat after you use some to inject.

That said..., pastrami is corned beef that has additional rub added, and then smoked. And many corned beef curing brines have a lot of aromatics. For instance, pickling spice, mustard seeds, coriander, bay leaves, garlic, ginger, pepper, cloves, etc. can be included in your curing bucket for more flavor.

In addition, when making corned beef, one school of thought is to increase your curing (corning) brine time to get maximum results (and flavor) from the aromatics. And when you use an 'equilibrium' method to calculate the base ingredients, you can stretch the cure time to 8, 10, 12 or even 14 days.

 

[Dicky]

Thanks again . So the FS cure I purchase in the photo is 5% nitrite, and gives directions for use.
I believe Prague powder is 6.25%.
Can you give me an example of what you would mix the FS at for equilibrium say with a 10lb roast? I’m a little confused on the equating equilibrium totals… I’m 63 and only got 20 minutes of grade 9 back in 1974 lol.

 

[Dicky]

I may quit purchasing this product and just go to straight nitrite in the little 40g packs. I’m finding it takes forever for the salts in the FS to dissolve even with agitation for a long time.. even after a 5 day soak there is still some granular in the bottom of my soak pail
I do boil up all the ingredients for taste you guys mentioned above but I’ve been told not to heat nitrite and should only dissolve it in cool/cold water.

 

[Dicky]

I should also mention that when I asked the retailer, they told me to use 170g FS per gal of water for brine, and inject no more than 10%…

 

[SmokinEdge]

Thanks again . So the FS cure I purchase in the photo is 5% nitrite, and gives directions for use.
I believe Prague powder is 6.25%.
Can you give me an example of what you would mix the FS at for equilibrium say with a 10lb roast? I’m a little confused on the equating equilibrium totals… I’m 63 and only got 20 minutes of grade 9 back in 1974 lol.

View attachment 658619

A lot can be said here, there are many ways to cure meats. I will try to keep this simple.
If you want to use the 10% method mentioned above to solve for a 10# roast would look like this:

454 grams per pound to convert,
10 pounds x 454= 4540 grams.

Water weighs 8.33# per gallon x 454= 3781.82 grams per gallon

meat weight 4540g x .10= 454g as 10% of meat weight (use 454g water)

meat weight plus water weight total, 4540 + 454= 4994g combined weight, so to solve for cure amount at 156ppm nitrite with a 5% nitrite product:

4994 x .000156/ .05= 15.58g of cure.

Now salt is the next consideration. All depends on your taste but anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5% is where most people are happy. To solve for salt use the combined water and meat weight,

Salt) 4994 x .02= 99.88g salt for 2% salt, but you then subtract the cure amount (which is 95% salt) so 99.88 - 15.58 = 84.3g of salt combined with the cure will give 2% total salt.

So for a 10 pound roast to EQ cure with a 10% water solution

Water) 454 grams

FS cure) 15.58 grams for 156ppm nitrite.

Salt 2%) 84.3 grams

This will work as a cover brine only. If you want to inject this brine (I inject all of it into the meat with about a 1 inch injection grid) then we won’t include water weight into the equation Those numbers would look like this for injection:

10 pound roast,

FS cure) 14.16 grams

Salt 2%) 76.64 grams (for a combined cure and salt as 2%)

Mix this with 454 grams distilled water and inject it all into the meat.

Sugar is optional. I usually use between .5 and 1%

To help dissolve you can gently warm the water to 90-100* F stirring to dissolve then chill completely before injecting.

 

[thirdeye]

And a quick note on injections... and I'm referring to something as simple as a flavor injection (broth, or slightly salty apple juice) or a flavor injection that has some phosphates, or a curing injection. All meat is different and will take injection liquid differently.

A pork butt is an excellent example, I usually use a flavor injection on them and plan on around 5 or 6 ounces per butt. Sometimes one butt will drink up 6 ounces like it's nothing. The next one will spurt and leak so much injection I might wait 20 minutes and shoot it with some more.

 

[Dicky]

A lot can be said here, there are many ways to cure meats. I will try to keep this simple.
If you want to use the 10% method mentioned above to solve for a 10# roast would look like this:

454 grams per pound to convert,
10 pounds x 454= 4540 grams.

Water weighs 8.33# per gallon x 454= 3781.82 grams per gallon

meat weight 4540g x .10= 454g as 10% of meat weight (use 454g water)

meat weight plus water weight total, 4540 + 454= 4994g combined weight, so to solve for cure amount at 156ppm nitrite with a 5% nitrite product:

4994 x .000156/ .05= 15.58g of cure.

Now salt is the next consideration. All depends on your taste but anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5% is where most people are happy. To solve for salt use the combined water and meat weight,

Salt) 4994 x .02= 99.88g salt for 2% salt, but you then subtract the cure amount (which is 95% salt) so 99.88 - 15.58 = 84.3g of salt combined with the cure will give 2% total salt.

So for a 10 pound roast to EQ cure with a 10% water solution

Water) 454 grams

FS cure) 15.58 grams for 156ppm nitrite.

Salt 2%) 84.3 grams

This will work as a cover brine only. If you want to inject this brine (I inject all of it into the meat with about a 1 inch injection grid) then we won’t include water weight into the equation Those numbers would look like this for injection:

10 pound roast,

FS cure) 14.16 grams

Salt 2%) 76.64 grams (for a combined cure and salt as 2%)

Mix this with 454 grams distilled water and inject it all into the meat.

Sugar is optional. I usually use between .5 and 1%

To help dissolve you can gently warm the water to 90-100* F stirring to dissolve then chill completely before injecting.

Wow… excellent , thanks so much !!

 

[tallbm]

Thanks again . So the FS cure I purchase in the photo is 5% nitrite, and gives directions for use.
I believe Prague powder is 6.25%.
Can you give me an example of what you would mix the FS at for equilibrium say with a 10lb roast? I’m a little confused on the equating equilibrium totals… I’m 63 and only got 20 minutes of grade 9 back in 1974 lol.

View attachment 658619

Deleted content because it seems the calculator did not properly do it's job. I don't want bad info out there :)

 

[SmokinEdge]

I believe SmokinEdge has you covered in detail there!

Here is a better online calculator for you to use that allows you to change the Nitrite % to 5.0 (digging dog doesnt, bleh).
https://www.localfoodheroes.com/universal-cure-calculator/

So in your 10 pound example lets assume 1 gallon of water covers the meat (likely need 2 gallons but depends on your container). I'm also rounding to avoid decimals, that minor bit of number rounding won't matter:

• 10 pounds meat = 4540gm
• 1 gallon water = 8.33 pounds which = 3779
• Total weight = 4540 + 3779 = 8319gm of water and meat
• Calculator time!
  • Total weight (use meat + water) = 8319gm
  • Salt 1.65%
  • Sugar 1 %
  • Nitrite % = 5.0% (to match your cure)
  • Parts Per Million = 156 (be sure to put this number)View attachment 658673
  • Totals!
  • View attachment 658674
  • Curing Salt/Nitrite = 14.15gm (just eyeball the 0.15 as a miniscule amount)

So, you have the details from SmokinEdge and this calculator will make life easier.
you still have to convert your meat weight and water weight to grams but you can easily get google to do that.
Just Google something like "18.33 pounds to grams" (10 pounds meat + 1 gallon of water weight at 8.33 pounds) and it will get you a good converted number:
View attachment 658675

Hopefully this will help you out :)

This is not an accurate calculation (no offense) but if we calculate 156ppm nitrite with a cure that contains 5.0% nitrite in your scenario with 1 gallon of water and 10# meat all in weighing 18.33# it will look this way for EQ brine.

18.33 x 454 = 8321.82 grams total weight, to solve,

8321.82 x .000156 / .05 = 25.96 grams of cure, not 14.15 grams. The 14.15 is about right for just the 10# meat but is not once you add the 8.33# of water weight. This will cut the ppm by about half.

The salt at 1.65% for 8321.82 grams looks like this:

8321.82 x .0165 = 137.37 grams…. Not 61.4 grams. This calculator is just junk. Again no offense because I know you most always give solid advice, but this isn’t even in the park.

Eric.

 

[Dicky]

I believe SmokinEdge has you covered in detail there!

Here is a better online calculator for you to use that allows you to change the Nitrite % to 5.0 (digging dog doesnt, bleh).
https://www.localfoodheroes.com/universal-cure-calculator/

So in your 10 pound example lets assume 1 gallon of water covers the meat (likely need 2 gallons but depends on your container). I'm also rounding to avoid decimals, that minor bit of number rounding won't matter:

• 10 pounds meat = 4540gm
• 1 gallon water = 8.33 pounds which = 3779
• Total weight = 4540 + 3779 = 8319gm of water and meat
• Calculator time!
  • Total weight (use meat + water) = 8319gm
  • Salt 1.65%
  • Sugar 1 %
  • Nitrite % = 5.0% (to match your cure)
  • Parts Per Million = 156 (be sure to put this number)View attachment 658673
  • Totals!
  • View attachment 658674
    
  • Curing Salt/Nitrite = 14.15gm (just eyeball the 0.15 as a miniscule amount)

So, you have the details from SmokinEdge and this calculator will make life easier.
you still have to convert your meat weight and water weight to grams but you can easily get google to do that.
Just Google something like "18.33 pounds to grams" (10 pounds meat + 1 gallon of water weight at 8.33 pounds) and it will get you a good converted number:
View attachment 658675

Hopefully this will help you out :)

I wish I had of joined this group about 400 pounds ago !

 

[tallbm]

This is not an accurate calculation (no offense) but if we calculate 156ppm nitrite with a cure that contains 5.0% nitrite in your scenario with 1 gallon of water and 10# meat all in weighing 18.33# it will look this way for EQ brine.

18.33 x 454 = 8321.82 grams total weight, to solve,

8321.82 x .000156 / .05 = 25.96 grams of cure, not 14.15 grams. The 14.15 is about right for just the 10# meat but is not once you add the 8.33# of water weight. This will cut the ppm by about half.

The salt at 1.65% for 8321.82 grams looks like this:

8321.82 x .0165 = 137.37 grams…. Not 61.4 grams. This calculator is just junk. Again no offense because I know you most always give solid advice, but this isn’t even in the park.

Eric.

Oh no offense taken, I'm glad you pointed it out! Removing the info since the calculator is trash. As you can see I didn't double check the numbers. What a crock of a calculator! :)

Thanks for bringing it to my attention :)

 

[SmokinEdge]

Oh no offense taken, I'm glad you pointed it out! Removing the info since the calculator is trash. As you can see I didn't double check the numbers. What a crock of a calculator! :)

Thanks for bringing it to my attention :)

You are a good seed tallbm . Just covering the 6.
This is the problem I have with internet cure calculators. It’s either garbage in and out, or it’s garbage in the program. And folks using them would never know, sort of blind trust. There is no replacement for long math, and it’s very simple for curing, it’s worth anyone taking up the craft to learn. This way a crutch calculator can always be checked, but I know you know the math. Just posting for other readers.

 

[tallbm]

You are a good seed tallbm . Just covering the 6.
This is the problem I have with internet cure calculators. It’s either garbage in and out, or it’s garbage in the program. And folks using them would never know, sort of blind trust. There is no replacement for long math, and it’s very simple for curing, it’s worth anyone taking up the craft to learn. This way a crutch calculator can always be checked, but I know you know the math. Just posting for other readers.

I appreciate you watching out and letting me know. The last thing I want to do is put bad info out there and suggest faulty tools.

Yeah the math itself is always correct, when done correctly . I should have double checked, I'm usually more thorough but we all fall short sometimes :D

 

[tallbm]

I wish I had of joined this group about 400 pounds ago !

I there and welcome D Dicky !

FYI, that local food heroes calculator is wrong so don't use it. You are better off using straight math or getting 6.25% nitrite cure #1 and using that digging dog calculator since it works (checked it) :

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diggingdogfarm.com

FYI, the Salt needed value it provides takes into consideration how much straight salt is in the Cure#1.

So the Salt needed value + the 93.75% of the salt in the Cure #1 (6.25 is nitrite) will give you the exact % of sault you desire. Pretty slick that they went ahead and did that to be accurate on salt %

 

[DougE]

So the Salt needed value + the 93.75% of the salt in the Cure #1 (6.25 is nitrite) will give you the exact % of sault you desire. Pretty slick that they went ahead and did that to be accurate on salt %

I'd actually have preferred they had kept both separate and added an extra box that showed total salt from the cure+ additional salt. Someone using my numbers at 1.5% salt plus the 0.25% from the cure has to already know what the calc is doing and that they have to input 1.75% in the salt value box to get my cure out of the calc.