First time brisket cook...a couple questions

[fendersrule]

Alright! I'll take a big fat "L" on this one. We all get better through learning, right?

The biggest mistake was to wrap the brisket in foil before placing in a warming oven. You're blocking any steam from escaping, which is going to essentially make the brisket pot roast.

Either A) Wrap in foil and let it cool naturally in an insulated container (or with warming oven off).

or

B) Leave it wrapped in butcher paper, then place a foil tray or whatever under it and use the warming oven as I did.

Basically I made pot roast.

 

[JLeonard]

Still looks pretty good. was it edible? If yes then still a win.

Jim

 

[JckDanls 07]

I don't think it was so much what it was wrapped in as much as it was the extended hold...

 

[912smoker]

Sure looks good from here !
Did you save the liquid gold to pour over ?

Keith

 

[fendersrule]

It certainly made the bark more soggy.

How are you supposed to make brisket and serve it anyways? Start at 4AM and serve by 6PM?

If I’m BBQing the night before it’s going to have to be an extended hold because people are not hungry until noon. Maybe best to let it cool naturally, then reheat before serving.

My neighbor defintely thought the foil was the issue. The brisket was wrapped in paper, then wrapped in foil. All I know is that if Im putting it inside of a heat source is to not use foil. The steam can’t escape.

It was pot roasty, which sucks because that impacted the smoke flavor.

It was still good, but it would be a be fail to serve it to a crowd.

 

[Hijack73]

I have had to take very few briskets to over 200. I don't get the "203 is ideal" mindset. I start poking at about 190, pull most at about 193. I will say this, I think I've over cooked more briskets since I started using digital therms than back in the Mesozoic era (about pre 2015) than before. This soft butter analogy is also wrong - but that's my PERSONAL opinion. You go until there is zero resistance and it's overcooked to me. I used a toothpick back then. Now I do use an instant read. The toothpick or probe or knife (why in the name of all that is good and pure and holy do people jab a knife sized hole into a flat multiple times is also beyond me, but some do) needs a little resistance.

I have a theory on why slow and low was the mantra for a hundred years before someone invented the let 'er rip at 275-350 method. Slow and low allows the whole chunk of cow to come to the same temp pretty much all over at the same time. EDIT: More of the big chunk of cow - the first 1.5-2 inches of a flat is pretty much ALWAYS going to be a little overcooked.

Throw that spritz bottle in the trash. Again, my opinion only. I would never open the lid for the first 12 hours.

I say these things because I've tried them all.

I've tried taking all the fat off. Doesn't work for me, taste wise.

I've tried spritzing. Just cools my chamber off and extends cook time.

I've tried hot and fast. Again, I can't make it work. I like it how I like it and I am VERY particular. 250 is about my max. My old stick burner went to 250, I started having to "fix" it.

I've tried making a pellicle. I can't tell the difference.

I long rest. I used to not rest it as long. Long rest is the one thing that makes a huge difference. I think it's why I pull mine around 193-195. I like mine tender enough to cut a bite out of a slice with a soup spoon, but not fall apart doing it. I want to be able to bite clean through on a sandwich, also without it shredding apart.

As far as wrapping, I can go either way. I really wanted to like butcher paper - alas, I don't. It's ok. I don't hate it. But I like foil better. I once had a theory that wrapping at 160 and unwrapping about 180 should really be the way to go - I mean, it gets it through the stall, and that's the only reason the ol Texas Crutch came into being. That was just a messy and burny my handsies experiment lol. I still think there is merit to that theory, but I don't experiment much now that a brisket is closer to 75 bucks. When they were 15-20 bucks, and wood was free, I didn't care so much. Plus, most of them got fed to the church ;) and the church thought they were ALL the cats meow. Now I don't have a church and I'm the only one who loves brisket so.....

Oh - also on the edit. I'm a fan of flipping mine at about the stall temp since I got the pellet smoker.

 

[fendersrule]

I have had to take very few briskets to over 200. I don't get the "203 is ideal" mindset. I start poking at about 190, pull most at about 193. I will say this, I think I've over cooked more briskets since I started using digital therms than back in the Mesozoic era (about pre 2015) than before. This soft butter analogy is also wrong - but that's my PERSONAL opinion. You go until there is zero resistance and it's overcooked to me. I used a toothpick back then. Now I do use an instant read. The toothpick or probe or knife (why in the name of all that is good and pure and holy do people jab a knife sized hole into a flat multiple times is also beyond me, but some do) needs a little resistance.

I have a theory on why slow and low was the mantra for a hundred years before someone invented the let 'er rip at 275-350 method. Slow and low allows the whole chunk of cow to come to the same temp pretty much all over at the same time. EDIT: More of the big chunk of cow - the first 1.5-2 inches of a flat is pretty much ALWAYS going to be a little overcooked.

Throw that spritz bottle in the trash. Again, my opinion only. I would never open the lid for the first 12 hours.

I say these things because I've tried them all.

I've tried taking all the fat off. Doesn't work for me, taste wise.

I've tried spritzing. Just cools my chamber off and extends cook time.

I've tried hot and fast. Again, I can't make it work. I like it how I like it and I am VERY particular. 250 is about my max. My old stick burner went to 250, I started having to "fix" it.

I've tried making a pellicle. I can't tell the difference.

I long rest. I used to not rest it as long. Long rest is the one thing that makes a huge difference. I think it's why I pull mine around 193-195. I like mine tender enough to cut a bite out of a slice with a soup spoon, but not fall apart doing it. I want to be able to bite clean through on a sandwich, also without it shredding apart.

As far as wrapping, I can go either way. I really wanted to like butcher paper - alas, I don't. It's ok. I don't hate it. But I like foil better. I once had a theory that wrapping at 160 and unwrapping about 180 should really be the way to go - I mean, it gets it through the stall, and that's the only reason the ol Texas Crutch came into being. That was just a messy and burny my handsies experiment lol. I still think there is merit to that theory, but I don't experiment much now that a brisket is closer to 75 bucks. When they were 15-20 bucks, and wood was free, I didn't care so much. Plus, most of them got fed to the church ;) and the church thought they were ALL the cats meow. Now I don't have a church and I'm the only one who loves brisket so.....

Oh - also on the edit. I'm a fan of flipping mine at about the stall temp since I got the pellet smoker.

I cooked it very similar then. I had 192-200 readings last night before resting.

Would really like to solve this. Even If I wake up and make brisket at 4AM (which sounds awful) or I figure out a better plan for making it the night before and serving it next day at noon. The only conclusion I have is that foil = bad and is going to cause it to cook more by trapping steam.

I held it at 150F for a total of 12 hours. Wrapped in a layer of both butcher and foil. All I can conclude is that foil is the enemy.

 

[fendersrule]

It’s hard for me to believe that 12 hours is too long for a hold. I know that many top BBQ places do that (they have to).

 

[Hijack73]

It’s hard for me to believe that 12 hours is too long for a hold. I know that many top BBQ places do that (they have to).

It's not too long for a hold, but it might be too long for a heated hold. I pull mine and they go straight into a preheated oven, then I turn the oven off. It's probably +150 in there for 3-5 hours. I do not know if 12 at 150 would overdo it. It might. People sous vide at much lower temps - though granted for longer - and stuff gets more tender as it goes - so science and stuff applies here as well, or I would imagine. Foil will soften up the bark, but I don't actually care for hard crusty bark. Flavorful bark can also be a softer bark and even wrapping in paper steams it.

You can always try the let 'er rip hot method. Many very accomplished cooks here swear by it.

 

[fendersrule]

It's not too long for a hold, but it might be too long for a heated hold. I pull mine and they go straight into a preheated oven, then I turn the oven off. It's probably +150 in there for 3-5 hours. I do not know if 12 at 150 would overdo it. It might. People sous vide at much lower temps - though granted for longer - and stuff gets more tender as it goes - so science and stuff applies here as well, or I would imagine. Foil will soften up the bark, but I don't actually care for hard crusty bark. Flavorful bark can also be a softer bark and even wrapping in paper steams it.

You can always try the let 'er rip hot method. Many very accomplished cooks here swear by it.

Thanks. So basically, if I want to cook by dinner time, I gotta wake up early for brisket.

 

[fendersrule]

I took some brisket and mixed it with some butter, neighbors fresh apricot sauce, and gave a nice peppering. Put a little raspberry chiplolee on. Toasted the potato buns.

Damn, it was good. Smokey and great. Happiest I’ve been with cook.

Felt like I actually ate better BBQ that’s around my area.

Just wasn’t pleased with brisket that I made by itself coming out of warming oven

 

[schlotz]

Couple of things to tuck into your notes for next time. You do keep notes for each smoke, correct?

During the smoke if you are going to wrap, use butcher paper and delay wrapping it until the IT is close to 180º. This delay helps to further set the flavor or at least keep it from becoming pot roasty. No problem keeping it in the smoker until the flat is probe tender and many places. KEY: pull the brisket when tender and let it sit opened on the counter until the IT drops 7-10º. This stops the cooking process. After that you can wrap tightly and keep warm.

As far as an alternate process, yes it becomes an early start but after 1-2 hours in a very good smoke range (180-200º) bump the smoker to 275º. Personally I'm now doing 1 hour then bumping the temp. Keep the lid shut until the IT hits the +190º range when it's time to start testing tenderness. Running at a higher temp still yields a great brisket and allows you to serve a 6pm dinner, and that includes a 1-2 hour rest wrapped with towels in a cooler.

 

[Culinary Otter]

Thanks. So basically, if I want to cook by dinner time, I gotta wake up early for brisket.

I'm sure this will get some cringe - but I can barely wake up before noon, let alone 4am to smoke. Any time I do a brisket I sous vide it for 36 hours, put it in the fridge for a day, then smoke it for a couple hours. Not saying it's the best method, but it's fool-proof and turns out quite well.

One of these days I'll try a full smoke.

 

[fendersrule]

Couple of things to tuck into your notes for next time. You do keep notes for each smoke, correct?

During the smoke if you are going to wrap, use butcher paper and delay wrapping it until the IT is close to 180º. This delay helps to further set the flavor or at least keep it from becoming pot roasty. No problem keeping it in the smoker until the flat is probe tender and many places. KEY: pull the brisket when tender and let it sit opened on the counter until the IT drops 7-10º. This stops the cooking process. After that you can wrap tightly and keep warm.

As far as an alternate process, yes it becomes an early start but after 1-2 hours in a very good smoke range (180-200º) bump the smoker to 275º. Personally I'm now doing 1 hour then bumping the temp. Keep the lid shut until the IT hits the +190º range when it's time to start testing tenderness. Running at a higher temp still yields a great brisket and allows you to serve a 6pm dinner, and that includes a 1-2 hour rest wrapped with towels in a cooler.

Definitely. My only notes thus far is 1) Flip brisket after wrapping (cooker specific) and 2) do NOT double wrap with aluminum foil if holding.

I let the brisket cool on the counter for 25 minutes after pulling. It dropped from 200 to 176F, then I put more tallow, re-wrapped with existing soaked butcher paper, THEN wrapped with foil.

Based on how it was steaming when I removed it from the warming oven, my only conclusion is that the foil was causing the problem. My neighor said it before me, and he's cooked brisket before. "Ahh man, you used foil!"

I think for next time, I will take the warming oven out of the equation, and just wake up at 6AM and serve a 6-7PM brisket.

I don't think anything I did was incorrect prior to the warming oven. It was the warming oven + foil that did it.

This was during the counter cooling phase. You could tell that this was an awesome brisket at this point. No chance it was pot roasty:

 

[schlotz]

Looks like you need to apply your thinking on the next brisket.

 

[chopsaw]

That chopped sandwich looks absolutely fantastic . I personally don't see anything that looks off with any of it .

 

[JckDanls 07]

I think for next time, I will take the warming oven out of the equation, and just wake up at 6AM and serve a 6-7PM brisket.

This the way I go about it... On as early as possible... Go nekkid until about 2pm (no matter what IT is) ... wrap and go to probe tender... Usually around 2 hrs ... pull and in the cooler... Dinner at 6:30 ...

 

[Redicans]

I wonder if you just put it in a foil pan still in the butchers paper with out wrapping it in foil after it cooled for a bit and then in the oven for the long hold if it would have been alright. The two briskets I have done so far I let cool on the counter till temps dropped then stuck in the oven still wrapped in paper for two hours before slicing and they were damn good. Paper still lets it breathe with out steaming it. I am not a Brisket pro at all just thinking what might work better for you in the future.

 

[fendersrule]

I wonder if you just put it in a foil pan still in the butchers paper with out wrapping it in foil after it cooled for a bit and then in the oven for the long hold if it would have been alright. The two briskets I have done so far I let cool on the counter till temps dropped then stuck in the oven still wrapped in paper for two hours before slicing and they were damn good. Paper still lets it breathe with out steaming it. I am not a Brisket pro at all just thinking what might work better for you in the future.

This is exactly my thought. I shouldn't have a burst of stem when unwrapping in foil, and that's precisely what happened! Next time I will absolutely do that when I do a rest, but for the very next time I'm going to go no rest.

 

[tallbm]

I took some brisket and mixed it with some butter, neighbors fresh apricot sauce, and gave a nice peppering. Put a little raspberry chiplolee on. Toasted the potato buns.

Damn, it was good. Smokey and great. Happiest I’ve been with cook.

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View attachment 687122

Felt like I actually ate better BBQ that’s around my area.

Just wasn’t pleased with brisket that I made by itself coming out of warming oven

Nice recovery on the brisket!
Chopping and mixing in bbq sauce will do wonders. If it is ever under cooked you just do this same approach and reheat in the oven or a crock pot and boom still good to go.

You asked about timing (probably the major reason most people have issues with making a brisket).
At a steady 275F smoker temp it takes my briskets (run naked the whole time never opening the smoker, not wrapped or spritzed) about 1 hour 5-7min per pound until the brisket may start to probe tender all over... especially in the thickest center-most portion of the flat muscle. The flat will always tender up last, it's the problem child.

So if I have 11 pounds of brisket going into the smoker then it will likely probe tender somewhere around 12 hours.
But WAIT.... don't plan for an 12 hour smoke.
Instead add an additional 4 hours to your planned cooking time.

This means you plan for the smoke to take 16 hours.
If you want to eat at noon on a Saturday, you would have this brisket in a hot smoker 16 hours before which would be 8pm the Friday night before.

Why add 4 hours???
Because if the brisket doesn't tender up within the expected time frame (about 12 hours for this 11 pounds example) then you have 4 more hours for it to cook and tender up before serving time.
If it does tender up 4 hours before then fantastic!!! You simply tightly wrap in 2 layers of foil and then wrap in 3 bath towels and set on the dinner table and it will be piping hot 4-5 hours later and ready to slice, serve, and eat!

This kind of understanding and planning will definitely help with your next brisket attempt.
You were pretty close to making a great brisket but I think the time planning got you like it gets most people.

I do a briskets all year long living here in brisket land (TX). They go on sale here about every 2 months and I usually do 2 at a time so I average about 1 brisket a month. In case you want to know about my brisket cooking experience :D

I hope this info helps but as you know there is still a lot more involved with a brisket smoke. Ask all the questions you have :D