First Chuck Roast - Overdone...

[cman55]

Well it had to happen sooner or later. So far, I've done pretty good with Briskets and Pork Shoulders although with the Briskets, I seem to have a problem overcooking the flat and nailing the point. Perhaps its where I measure the temps that I'm off the rails. Anyway, tried to do a Chuck roast. Not very thick at 1.25" but moderately hefty at 3.5lbs. My MES 40 Gen2's thermometer read 205 when I pulled the chuckie out of the smoker. Wrapped it in foil and let it rest for several hours. When I unwrapped it, it was juicy, but it wouldn't pull at all so I sliced it up. Well, I was dissapointed to say the least however, I try to learn from my mistakes so I'm putting this out to the community hoping for guidance. I've also noticed that my brisket flats are also a bit over done however the points come in just fine for 'burnt ends" at 205F. I've also noticed that I don't get the "bark" that smokers at higher temps seem to get and I wonder if that's a function of the smoker and the lower temps I'm using. 

Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

[smoking b]

Have you checked your MES thermometer for accuracy?

 

[daveomak]

Are you using a water pan with water in it ???   Foiling will soften the bark...  

Sounds like the therms are off temp like Smokin B was thinking...

 

[fatcoyote]

I can only speak to briskets as that is what I prefer. I do like chucks but would like someone with more experience in them ask questions and speak to them. As for the brisket, do  you trim and if so how much fat is left also are you using a select, choice or prime? Are you marinating or just rubbing? If you could provide a few more details we may be able to help.
 

 

[chef jimmyj]

Internal Temp is not always a good indicator of doneness or fall apart tenderness.  First off a Chuck is made up of a few different muscles with different densities, fat content and connective tissue amounts. One part maybe falling apart while another is tough. Second at 1.25", that is more of a Steak than a roast and can easily reach an IT of 200+*F before complete and sufficient breakdown of the connective tissue has taken place. Not to mention, a large thick Butt will hold temp long enough for collagen breakdown to continue over a few hours rest in a cooler. A thin Roast/Steak will not hold temp as long and therefore there is less breakdown. Last as other have said the MES Therm is notorious for being off. It is very possible that the actual IT was lower than what the MES said it was...JJ

 

[cman55]

Have you checked your MES thermometer for accuracy?

No I haven't. From what I'm reading, the MES is notorious for having bad readings. I guess I should invest in the aftermarket probes to be safe. At times, the temps do seem whacky as I try to monitor both the IT and the smoker temp with the remote control that came with the smoker. sometimes its close, sometimes its not. 

 

[cman55]

Are you using a water pan with water in it ???   Foiling will soften the bark...  

Sounds like the therms are off temp like Smokin B was thinking...

I am using the water pan that came with the unit filled to the max line (which isn't very much). I'm not getting any bark on the brisket at all but just mushy rub. 

 

[cman55]

I can only speak to briskets as that is what I prefer. I do like chucks but would like someone with more experience in them ask questions and speak to them. As for the brisket, do  you trim and if so how much fat is left also are you using a select, choice or prime? Are you marinating or just rubbing? If you could provide a few more details we may be able to help.
 

I'm not sure of the quality of the brisket but it does "fold" easily. I got my last brisket from a local butcher and plan on getting one from a new location. Whole briskets seem to be getting harder to find in Walmart. I am just rubbing (Jeffs) and vacuum sealing for 24hrs before I smoke the brisket. I also trim the really hard fat off but I do try to leave .25" on and I smoke fatside up. I will ask my new provider what the quality of the my next brisket is. Will it be stamped on the fat? If so, I'll pay closer attention. Perhaps seperating the "flat" from the "point" would be better for me at this stage?

 

[cman55]

Internal Temp is not always a good indicator of doneness or fall apart tenderness.  First off a Chuck is made up of a few different muscles with different densities, fat content and connective tissue amounts. One part maybe falling apart while another is tough. Second at 1.25", that is more of a Steak than a roast and can easily reach an IT of 200+*F before complete and sufficient breakdown of the connective tissue has taken place. Not to mention, a large thick Butt will hold temp long enough for collagen breakdown to continue over a few hours rest in a cooler. A thin Roast/Steak will not hold temp as long and therefore there is less breakdown. Last as other have said the MES Therm is notorious for being off. It is very possible that the actual IT was lower than what the MES said it was...JJ

Thinking back on it, it was probably more steakish than roast. I'll steer clear of the chuckies until I get a bit more experienced. Looks like I'll be investing in that Maverick temp unit in the near future as well. Masterbuilt made a nice unit but it sometimes appears that I'm steam/smoking more than anything else with all the moisture in the unit. Less water in the tray perhaps? None at all?

 

[smoking b]

I don't use any water in my MES - I like bark too much. You can get play sand at Lowes or Home Depot & put it in your water pan then cover it with foil. Works much better than water. I use a Maverick ET-732 to keep track of temps. My MES factory therm is way off. Also make sure you have your exhaust vent wide open when smoking.

 

[mdboatbum]

 When I unwrapped it, it was juicy, but it wouldn't pull at all so I sliced it up.

Sounds to me like it was under done, as opposed to being over done. Things like briskets and chuck roasts are kinda weird. They'll seem like you've gone way too far and ruined them, when the truth is they just need a little more time for the magic to happen. You've received a lot of good advice from those on here that know a lot more than I do, so I won't go on and on. Just keep at it and try to get a "feel" for how your meat is doing. Internal temperatures and times are great for giving you an idea of where things might be, but there is no substitute for feel when it comes to something you're trying to cook to tenderness.

 

[cman55]

I don't use any water in my MES - I like bark too much. You can get play sand at Lowes or Home Depot & put it in your water pan then cover it with foil. Works much better than water. I use a Maverick ET-732 to keep track of temps. My MES factory therm is way off. Also make sure you have your exhaust vent wide open when smoking.

Thanks for the information Smokey. I will eliminate the water from the next smoke and open the vent full. Looks like we're neighbors. My next brisket and belly is coming from Wayne Nell meats out in East Berlin. 

 

[cman55]

 When I unwrapped it, it was juicy, but it wouldn't pull at all so I sliced it up.

Sounds to me like it was under done, as opposed to being over done. Things like briskets and chuck roasts are kinda weird. They'll seem like you've gone way too far and ruined them, when the truth is they just need a little more time for the magic to happen. You've received a lot of good advice from those on here that know a lot more than I do, so I won't go on and on. Just keep at it and try to get a "feel" for how your meat is doing. Internal temperatures and times are great for giving you an idea of where things might be, but there is no substitute for feel when it comes to something you're trying to cook to tenderness.

Perhaps it was, but the color was battleship grey when I sliced it and that baby wasn't gonna pull even with a John Deere. I'll keep at it but again, I'll wait for a while before I do another chucky and I'll make absolutely sure its a thicker cut. I don't have money to burn. 

 

[smoking b]

Thanks for the information Smokey. I will eliminate the water from the next smoke and open the vent full. Looks like we're neighbors. My next brisket and belly is coming from Wayne Nell meats out in East Berlin. 

You're quite welcome 

  You want your exhaust vent wide open to keep good airflow & prevent stale smoke buildup which will make your food bitter.  Yeah I lived in York for a while - close to the Harley plant - on Hilltop Drive...

 

[mdboatbum]

Yup, they'll get gray and appear to be cooked to death. They'll be hard as a rock, sometimes dry as a bone, and you're thinking there's no hope for it. Then suddenly, poof, the connective tissue breaks down into all this lovely, lip smackingly good gelatin and all is well. Since the connective tissue holding the fibers together is what has drawn up making the meat hard and tough, with it gone, the meat is now soft and tender, and pulls apart with a fork.

Thing is, stop thinking "Steak" when you're cooking these things. With most steaks you have a linear path from raw to overcooked, with perfect at a predetermined point somewhere in the middle. With a chuck roast or a brisket, the heat and time and temperature of the meat all combine with the collagen to create this sort of convoluted route, then end of which is never really clear until you're there.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Cman, Nell's is great! I have known Mr. Nell and the boys for many years. I was an instructor at Yorktowne Business Institute School of Culinary Arts and ran tours for students through Nell's. They Dry age and will sell you Packers cut anyway you want or just Flats or Points. They have good prices and will make sure you are happy. Call ahead if you want custom cutting as it is faster than waiting because they cut different meats on different days and would have to pull someone off production to fab up what you need...JJ

 

[cman55]

Cman, Nell's is great! I have known Mr. Nell and the boys for many years. I was an instructor at Yorktowne Business Institute School of Culinary Arts and ran tours for students through Nell's. They Dry age and will sell you Packers cut anyway you want or just Flats or Points. They have good prices and will make sure you are happy. Call ahead if you want custom cutting as it is faster than waiting because they cut different meats on different days and would have to pull someone off production to fab up what you need...JJ

That's great to hear JJ. I was out that way on Monday and put in a order for a 10# Packer and a Belly. Got a decent price on them both although just a bit higher than Stoltzfus Meats  over in Intercourse. I'll be picking both up tomorrow and will start the belly brine first. I was pretty impressed by the side of beef hanging in the cutting area. 

I ordered the Maverick Blk 732 today and it should be here in about a week. Not sure if I want to try another smoke with the MES temp probe. What would you recommend? Seperating the flat and points or smoking whole? Should I place the temp probe in the flat or the point for the more accurate IT?

Hopefully, with all the guidance you folks were so kind to give me, I'll be back in business in no time flat. ( no pun intended) 

 

[doctord1955]

I always take the thin chuck roasts and cut them in half then season them then stack them and use some butchers twine and tie them!  I also cook them at 190 overnight on a Fraday night then turn up to 225 in morning always turn out fall apart tender!

 

[cman55]

I always take the thin chuck roasts and cut them in half then season them then stack them and use some butchers twine and tie them!  I also cook them at 190 overnight on a Fraday night then turn up to 225 in morning always turn out fall apart tender!

Thanks Doc.. I guess there's hope yet for chuck roasts IF you know what to do. I'll keep that in mind for my next attempt. 

 

[chef jimmyj]

I have monitored high in the Flat where the Point overlaps but be careful you are not in the fat. If you separate the two you can take each out as they are ready. For instance, when the Flat hits 165*F foil it and let it finish where you can leave the Point unwrapped to get great bark for Burnt Ends. Bark is all about time and limiting humidity, sugar helps of course. Keep the top vent open and if using water in the pan consider removing it after the first 4 hours...JJ