Fermenation enzymes

[reimerron]

HI,
Anybody ever use soured whey as an additive to summer sausage, instead of fermento? Thanks.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Fermento will not ferment like a regular fermentation agent.

If your in a pinch and need fermento you can go to the store in the baking section and use Saco buttermilk powder, same as fermento and way cheaper.

As for soured whey it may work fo a tang.

GL

 

[reimerron]

If your in a pinch and need fermento you can go to the store in the baking section and use Saco buttermilk

So fermento is not the proper enzyme to use? What should I be using to lower pH? Thanks.

 

[SmokinEdge]

HI,
Anybody ever use soured whey as an additive to summer sausage, instead of fermento? Thanks.

Most just use encapsulated C in summer sausage for tang. To ferment you need a starter culture like F-LC from Bactoferm.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

So fermento is not the proper enzyme to use? What should I be using to lower pH? Thanks.

Right
Fermento will not lower the pH. It just adds a slight tang.
ECA will make a shelf stable product that will fall just a tad short of a full on fermented style meat by using a fermentation agent like the following.

TSPX
FRM52
Safe pro FLC
LHP Dry
BLC 78 OR 007
Flavor of Italy

There are a wide range of agents that ferment at different temps and taste. For these to work properly you will need to use some dextrose in the mix.

I have also used plain cultured buttermilk and good quality sauerkraut liquid.

 

[reimerron]

Right
Fermento will not lower the pH. It just adds a slight tang.
ECA will make a shelf stable product that will fall just a tad short of a full on fermented style meat by using a fermentation agent like the following.

TSPX
FRM52
Safe pro FLC
LHP Dry
BLC 78 OR 007
Flavor of Italy

There are a wide range of agents that ferment at different temps and taste. For these to work properly you will need to use some dextrose in the mix.

I have also used plain cultured buttermilk and good quality sauerkraut liquid.

Yes, that's more my style. I make my own kraut and use buttermilk in cheesemaking.. How much would you recommend adding and when do you add it in the process? Does this make it shelf-stable? Thanks everyone for your help. I am admittedly a newbie to this.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

How many pounds are you making?

Keep in mind the the kraut liquid will take longer for the lactic acid to start to ferment the meat
(same with the buttermilk)

I did 5 pounds and use 4T of the liquid. When i do BM liquid i use 3/8 cup. Make sure either is mixed in very good to the meat grind. With either liquid you can add in at any time. When using any bactoferm agent i found it best added last and not mixed in with the cure like some YT posters say.

Just a note: If you use ECA do not grind it into the meat, mix eca in by hand and then you will need to stuff and smoke right away. Any longer than a 2 hour wait before smoking you might as well toss it. ECA early release can make the meat mushy. ECA reacts at 130* to release the CA into the meat for the tang. Like a store bought slim jim.

 

[reimerron]

How many pounds are you making?

Keep in mind the the kraut liquid will take longer for the lactic acid to start to ferment the meat
(same with the buttermilk)

I did 5 pounds and use 4T of the liquid. When i do BM liquid i use 3/8 cup. Make sure either is mixed in very good to the meat grind. With either liquid you can add in at any time. When using any bactoferm agent i found it best added last and not mixed in with the cure like some YT posters say.

Just a note: If you use ECA do not grind it into the meat, mix eca in by hand and then you will need to stuff and smoke right away. Any longer than a 2 hour wait before smoking you might as well toss it. ECA early release can make the meat mushy. ECA reacts at 130* to release the CA into the meat for the tang. Like a store bought slim jim.

I will probably make either 10 or 15 pounds to start. Excuse my ignorance, but what is ECA (encapsulated citric acid?) and where do you get it? What about using wine like they do in France? Thanks, again for your assistance.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Yes you have the right info for ECA. You can get at just about all the online sausage sites and even slamazon.

Wine is fine. I will be using 50ml of red wine in my upcoming salumi.