Electric Smokers and GFI Outlet

[rrweather]

Good Evening,

I am new to the forums and posted my issue in another thread this morning. I figured I’d start my own thread in the correct spot. Here is my scenario, as posted this morning:

I started converting a PBC to electric. I purchased a 1200 watt heating element from Cookshack and a PID controller with a built in relay. Wired it all up and plugged it in. The first time the controller turned on the heating element, it instantly tripped my GFI outlet. The outlet actually broke since it was probably 20 years old. We were having issues with the same outlet tripping when our Christmas lights were up.

I put a new outlet in and tried running the smoker again. It ran for 10 minutes or so and then the GFI outlet tripped again. I tested everything I could with a multimeter and couldn’t find anything. In my internet searching, it seems that heating elements and GFI outlets don’t always play nice with one another. I’ve read stories of people having to replace every outlet on the GFI protected circuit in hopes of keeping their electric smoker from tripping the GFI. I guess GFI outlets are very conservative by design so it is easy for things to make them trip. The fact that ours was tripping with our Christmas lights up makes me think the old wiring in our house isn’t helping my cause.

If I plug mine into a non-GFI outlet, it runs like a champ. Now my dilemma is do I just chalk it off to heating elements and GFIs not playing nice and run it on an unprotected circuit (risk safety) or scrap the idea.

This afternoon I measured the voltage across my heating element and it was +/- 106 volts. The voltage going into the element is 115 volts. My resistance on the element is right around 12 ohms, which seems correct based on my math. So I’m not sure if the drop in voltage across the heating element is normal or if that could be why my GFI outlet is tripping.

I’ve been unable to troubleshoot it down to any other issues. As a side note, I have a smaller Cookshack electric smoker that I run on the same circuit without issue. The heating element in that smoker is only around 700 Watts. Not sure if that means anything.

My older Cookshack works fine but I want more space to smoke more meat at once. I don’t want to dump more money into modifying the PBC since it’s not a giant increase in usable space. I attempted to convert it to electric because I could never get used to the overwhelming charcoal flavor we got using the PBC as designed.

I’d love to make a propane smoker from scratch or find a used warmer and convert it. In the meantime, if I could get the PBC to run on electric, at least I’d have something to use now.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Randy

 

[crazzycajun]

Is your gfci on a dedicated circuit a lot of times to be cheap and up to code the put the gfci first in the circuit and add additional outlets wired from that outlet. That being said any outlet wired after that on that circuit could contribute to your problem including the outlets themselves clear as mud?

 

[mosparky]

Try this and report back. Unplug everything and ohm check the heating element to ground with a digital meter. Let me know what it reads.

 

[rrweather]

Our house is 25+ years old. The builder put the gfi outlet in the master bath. Then added a bunch of outlets “downstream” to include other bathrooms, the garage, and outdoor outlets. From the little I’ve messed with, everything in the house is original so the outlets are 25+ years old. So between old electrical components and a bunch of other stuff on that circuit, I can imagine it’s part of the problem. We’re renting so I’m not interested in upgrading parts of the electrical system. I’ve also notices that many of the outlets are hooked up to 15 amp breakers. I thought the new norm was 15 amp breakers for lighting and 20 amp for outlets. Maybe I was wrong.

I will ohm check the element to ground tomorrow and report back. Thank you for the help.

Randy

 

[rrweather]

Checked the ohms between the heating element and ground (no other connections and no power) and got zero. Hopefully that’s what I was supposed to get!

-Randy

 

[troutman]

I had similar issue and change out my breaker to 20 amps. It still occasionally trips but seems to have improved things. That's my two cents worth.

 

[rrweather]

Thanks for the reply. Was your breaker tripping or was it the GFI outlet?

 

[crazzycajun]

You got zero as in continuity or in infinity the same reading with the leads touching or apart ?

 

[troutman]

Thanks for the reply. Was your breaker tripping or was it the GFI outlet?

I was having issues with the GFIs tripping, not the breaker. I figured it was an amperage issue. Like I said, it did help but didn't altogether solve the problem.

 

[rrweather]

I guess infinity. My meter reads 1 when it’s not touching anything. It read the same 1 between the element and ground. 12.2 ish between element contacts.

 

[crazzycajun]

Your reading infinity or no continuity to ground which is good element is good. Problem is elsewhere

 

[rrweather]

Ok. Thanks. Again, being that we’re renters, I’m not willing to put too much effort or money into fixing any issues with the house. I can run the smoker on a non-GFI outlet. I don’t plan on standing in a puddle while operating the smoker. I appreciate the help.

Randy

 

[rrweather]

Last night I ran a small space heater in the garage, which is same GFI circuit I’ve been having issues with. After about 10 minutes, the GFI outlet tripped and would not reset. Pretty much confirms our old house is having some issues. Time to call the rental agency on Monday.

 

[crazzycajun]

Hopefully they get you taken care so you ca run the smoker in the garage

 

[johnmeyer]

Actually, the low-voltage DC continuity test won't tell you much about leakage. Many of the electrical fault issues which can cause current to shunt to ground involve insulation breakdown which is something that often requires full 120VAC to happen, and doesn't happen at the low voltages uses by most continuity testers.

 

[sailplaner]

No solution for you just another "happened to me" comment.

My 7 year old (new wired circuits with GFI) would trip in less than 30 seconds when I started the smoker. Tried several different outlets on different circuits. Same problem. My solution was to use a short (heavy gauge) extension cord to a non-GFI outlet.

I just make sure I'm not barefoot when working with the smoker. What can I say, I grew up in 60's and 70's. We were crazy back then!

Mark P.
..

 

[mneeley490]

Interesting. The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago when I went to fire up my fridge conversion with a PID. (Still powers the MES30 okay so far.) I've been using the same short 12 gauge cord and garage non-GFI outlet for years. Now it trips the GFI outlet upstream on the other side of the garage after a couple of minutes. Perhaps I'll try replacing the non-GFI with a newer one and see what happens.

 

[mneeley490]

Well I finally got around to changing out both the GFI and the load outlet where I plug in my fridge conversion. No luck, still trips. So I guess it must be a short somewhere in the smoker. I really hate to have to tear it apart to find it. :confused:

 

[rrweather]

To further confuse me on electrical stuff....

The first time I use my converted PBC, I ran a homemade 12 gauge extension cord from an interior outlet to the back patio. It was a pain in the ass; so the next time, I just plugged it into the outlet on the patio. I was going to be home and was only cooking ribs so I figured I'd check it hourly to see how long it took to trip the GFI outlet. It went for 4-5 hours without tripping it once.

I've since used the smoker for 25-30 hours plugged in to the same outlet and it has never tripped the GFI. I verified the GFI covers the patio outlet. So something in my garage is probably leaking current? Either way, my converted PBC works well on the patio, which was my original goal.

 

[SonnyE]

I hate those kind of scenarios where some lazy cheap SOB piles as many circuits as possible on a single GFI outlet.
Code allows it, (I believe it's up to 9 or 10) but it ends up being a frustrating mess down the road.

My recommendation is you run an extension cord when you need to run your smoker. When you move into your own place, then make sure you have a GFI outlet at your point of use on the patio, and fed by a 20 amp circuit.

If you want to search for grounds, you need a Megohm meter, or a Megger. A Megger generates a voltage high enough to actually test the insulation at 300 or 500 volts, some higher, to search for faulty circuits.

I do not believe your smokers are the problem. I believe you are dealing with aged wiring, and a GFI that may have been repeatedly tripped before you got there.
Every time a circuit breaker trips, it gets weaker. Same with a GFI. Eventually they become "Nuisance trippers". They just trip if somebody farts near them.
Even if it is a PITA, I would use a cord to get around the fault of the house.