Converting fermented to ECA

[indaswamp]

There are strains that ferment just fine at room temperature --

Almost all commercial starter cultures can be fermented at room temp. to achieve acid drop, but it will happen at a slower rate. The bioprotective properties need minimum of 75*F so that is why it is recommended

 

[Dave in AZ]

D Dave in AZ LoydB You guys have any insight on using SV to ferment? I think it's a game changer and LOTS of folks doing it online but cannot locate confirmation it's safe. Tempted to reach out somehow to Chris Hansen...

I think it is fine. I made a long post, but elected to not post it until chr hansen technical service replies to my email. I talked to them on phone, and read their entire Bactoferm Meat Manual vol1, which in fact ENCOURAGES removing o2 during stuffing phase, preferment, even suggesting vacuum stuffers to remove o2.
I read the thread.. I disagree with most all the negative comments. My post quotes various sources to refute most of them... but I will wait until chr Hansen replies to me to post. However... short fast ferment, with cure1 or cure2, 100f US style and appropriate culture, I'd do it.

 

[LoydB]

I've never used SV to ferment, but that's because I have a bread proofer that works perfectly well.

 

[Tinner340]

Sorry I'm late to the party here but what the heck:) Using citric acid is a way to quickly ferment sausages. Fermentation is raising the acidity level in meat thereby lowering ph. what ECA doesn't do is lower water activity (the stuff bad bacteria really like), traditional fermentation processes will.. That said, it sounds like you are going to cook your sausage to fsis guidelines and just looking for the traditional fermented "flavor". ECA will do just that. (Please correct me if I'm wrong dave in az.)

 

[Tinner340]

Almost all commercial starter cultures can be fermented at room temp. to achieve acid drop, but it will happen at a slower rate. The bioprotective properties need minimum of 75*F so that is why it is recommended

Hey indaswamp, did you mean to raise acid level or do I have it backwards. :D??

 

[jbo_c]

Following up a little myself:

Hi Mountain has a salami kit that seems to do just what I’m asking about. It’s a spice blend and you add ECA and bring to safe cook temp.

THEN, you hang at a “cool” temperature to dry and lose 20%(if I remember correctly) moisture. The instructions are vague on what cool is, but definitely doesn’t say refrigerate, but then says you need to refrigerate after. Curious to me that you can leave it out for, presumably, days, if not a week or more, but then it’s not shelf stable after losing moisture, which should make it more “stable”.

At any rate, I ordered a box and will make it and report back.

I will also probably attempt to reach out to Hi Mountain to clarify what they consider a “cool place” to hang it. :)

Jbo

 

[indaswamp]

Hey indaswamp, did you mean to raise acid level or do I have it backwards. :D??

Sorry for the confusion... Yes, pH drop (rise in acid level from lactic acid production).

 

[indaswamp]

Following up a little myself:

Hi Mountain has a salami kit that seems to do just what I’m asking about. It’s a spice blend and you add ECA and bring to safe cook temp.

THEN, you hang at a “cool” temperature to dry and lose 20%(if I remember correctly) moisture. The instructions are vague on what cool is, but definitely doesn’t say refrigerate, but then says you need to refrigerate after. Curious to me that you can leave it out for, presumably, days, if not a week or more, but then it’s not shelf stable after losing moisture, which should make it more “stable”.

At any rate, I ordered a box and will make it and report back.

I will also probably attempt to reach out to Hi Mountain to clarify what they consider a “cool place” to hang it. :)

Jbo

What you describe is how the dry cure process works. A cool place is around optimum @55*F (below 60*F for safety against staph bacteria) ; and for sticks that are very thin, you need 60%RH instead of 80%RH.....

 

[jbo_c]

Here’s my email question to them:
Your instructions say after cooking to “hang in a cool, dry place” until the weight has decreased by 25%.

What is “cool”? And how long is safe to leave them there before refrigerating? Or are these shelf stable due to the acid and able to stay out indefinitely?

Here is their response(2 hours later-pretty good service in my book):
“Hang your cooked salami in a 50 -70 degree area. Once it has reduced the 25% we recommend keeping it in the refrigerator or freezer.”

 

[indaswamp]

As mentioned above, I would not dry above 60*F....because Staph Aureus grows rapidly above this temperature.

*Edit to add:
So I learned something new....pH is also an important factor in controlling Staph Toxins....

Certain strains of the bacteria Staphylococcus aureus are capable of producing a highly heat stable toxin that causes illness in humans. Above a critical temperature of 15.6°C, Staphylococcus aureus multiplication and toxin production can take place. Once a pH of 5.3 is reached, Staphylococcus aureus multiplication and toxin production are stopped.

https://inspection.canada.ca/preven...ted-and-dried/eng/1522951036924/1522951037158

Until a pH of 5.3 or below is achieved, you need to keep the temperature below 60*F. But since you will be adding ECA then cooking immediately, this is a non issue for your sticks. The manufacturer has added the proper dosage of ECA for safe pH.

 

[Tinner340]

As indaswamp has eluded to, bacteria does not thrive in high acidity (low ph) or low water activity levels. There's a lot of information out there that will explain that part in depth. As I mentioned above, citric acid will lower the ph but will do nothing to lower water activity, the drying process has to do that. In my opinion, contacting the manufacture of the product and asking questions is a great Idea!! it doesn't sound like their recipe is very clear :)