Binders

  • Some of the links on this forum allow SMF, at no cost to you, to earn a small commission when you click through and make a purchase. Let me know if you have any questions about this.
SMF is reader-supported. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.
I would almost put rusk or dense breadcrumbs in the filler category. Marianski recipe calls for 6%. I've seen recipes with up to 10%. Most binders are lower
I tend to agree. I tried an Irish sausage from Rytek Kutas' book and it called for 10 cups of breadcrumbs for 10# of meat. It seemed like a lot but I'd never made it so I went with 5 cups for 5#. It was terrible, more like bread stuffed cases. Had to be a typo or misprint.
As for a binder, I've been using about a half cup of Soy Protein Concentrate fo a 5# batch for a while now. I really don't know if it's needed but it doesn't seem to hurt anything and my sausages aren't crumbly so I'll probably continue. I only make fresh.
 
I've been making sausage for a long time but very casually. I've been using dry milk powder and lately c-bind or carrot fiber. So far I really like the carrot fiber. You don't have to add a ton of it. Sure, it's not necessary but when you make 5 to 10 pound batches 3 or 4 times a year, it helps make a good product even if you don't do a perfect job mixing, etc.
 
I’ve used NFDM on fresh and cured/smoked products I used the same 10g/kg and have had excellent results with each batch…. Not gonna change something if it’s doesn’t need it I love the texture and the finished product so ill
Keep using it
 
The process of making sausage is the most important ingredient. Quality meat to start. Par frozen cold before grind. Sharp blade and plate on the grinder for a premium grind. Keep that meat cold. Then mix in the ingredients and mix until you get good protein extraction, this is key.
Pretty much where I come down. I see binders as a way to add a little more juiciness into the product, but getting a good grind without smearing fat, and mixing until you have good protein extraction are the keys to making excellent sausage. Binders have their place, but it's in addition to, not in place of good sausage making practices.
 
I would almost put rusk or dense breadcrumbs in the filler category. Marianski recipe calls for 6%. I've seen recipes with up to 10%. Most binders are lower
I'd call it both a filler and a binder. It does bind moisture and also acts as a filler.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fueling Around
Thanks Doug DougE DougE for starting this thread.
Been a lot of discussions on binders but definitely needed to be the main topic.
I'm really hoping some of the seasoned phosphate users chime in with their observations.

OK, some the reading i have been doing (not on this forum) says they are used to retain moisture during the cook? IDK, just got into this with a Kitchenaid grinder stuffer to start. I plan to stuff uncured bratwurst first (will Sous vide to 145) then cook later on the grill. I ordered some backwoods kits for jerky and snack stick later.
Cliff
Watch the premix ingredients on added sugars. Some are pretty high in dextrose (glucose) and brown sugar (sucrose) which are pretty high on the glycemic chart.
I tend to agree. I tried an Irish sausage from Rytek Kutas' book and it called for 10 cups of breadcrumbs for 10# of meat. It seemed like a lot but I'd never made it so I went with 5 cups for 5#. It was terrible, more like bread stuffed cases. Had to be a typo or misprint.
As for a binder, I've been using about a half cup of Soy Protein Concentrate fo a 5# batch for a while now. I really don't know if it's needed but it doesn't seem to hurt anything and my sausages aren't crumbly so I'll probably continue. I only make fresh.
I've only had Bangers (and mash) once. That was 40 years ago aboard a British destroyer for a special party. I only remember it as a chewy sausage. (Got sloshed in the Chief's Mess, which is another story.)
That recipe sounds to be a true wartime creation which is probably pretty close to Marianski of 6% by weight
 
  • Like
Reactions: clifish
Phosphates are pretty much King. People hate them because it’s a “chemical” additive, but actually, phosphate is very natural and is the best moisture retainer out there. You cannot use them in semi-dried or dried products but with fresh and smoked sausage, escpecialy emulsified sausage like bologna or franks, there is no better alternative than phosphate.
 
...
If a binder is used, potato starch is my go to, but carrot fiber is very good also. These will help hold the natural juices of the meat, meat moisture, if you will. These will not save the fat or stop the dreaded fat out, but they will help retain moisture. A good grind and proper protein extraction is pretty much all I really need for a high quality sausage. This along with proper cooking temperature is all you really need. Pork, salt, pepper and a little garlic will make an incredible sausage if made right. No funny business needed.
Great points.
The problem I see is that the binders can and will absorb the water we add to the mix simply for processing.
I use potato starch for other things simply to reduce the wheat flour content. I noticed it can get a snotty texture if not mixed well. How do you add it?
I only make fresh sausage (I smoke some of the recipes) and jerky now and then. Never made cured sausage. That needs to change next year as my son wants venison sticks
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmokinEdge
I use potato starch for other things simply to reduce the wheat flour content. I noticed it can get a snotty texture if not mixed well. How do you add it?
That last kielbasa I did, I just mixed the potato starch in with the rest of my spice mix and mixed the sausage batter same as always. I probably added more liquid than I would have, otherwise to account for the added starch, but I don't generally measure the liquid I add when mixing sausage, I add it slowly until the batter "feels" right. Sometimes I add no additional liquid. It just depends on how the batch is mixing up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmokinEdge
Great points.
The problem I see is that the binders can and will absorb the water we add to the mix simply for processing.
I use potato starch for other things simply to reduce the wheat flour content. I noticed it can get a snotty texture if not mixed well. How do you add it?
I only make fresh sausage (I smoke some of the recipes) and jerky now and then. Never made cured sausage. That needs to change next year as my son wants venison sticks
3-5% of meat weight is where you want to be with potato starch. You can mix it in directly to the meat or mix it with water and add. I prefer a direct approach then add water as needed. It’s way better at holding water/moisture than NFDM plus it’s neutral in flavor.
 
I don't think binders are totally necessary. I usually use them in smoked sausages but not fresh. I just figure it's cheap insurance to help end up with a great final product. Like others have said binders are no substitute for following all the rules and details of the process of making sausage. When i use binders its just regular milk powder nothing fancy.
 
I don't disagree with any posts above. However, I do wonder why there seems to be an attitude of "binders are bad, making sausage without them is better". Like there is a badge of honor to be gained by making no-binder sausage? I make sausage both with and without, depending on what texture and juice I'm going for... but I certainly don't think the without is BETTER somehow just because it lacks binder?

Binders are just an ingredient, usually undetectable except when a sausage fails due to fat-out or overdry in their absence. They absolutely have their place.

Many sausage types are partly DEFINED by their binders and the resulting texture, and if you want to actually make that sausage, instead of an approximation, you need to use them. Most Thai and Chinese sausages have rice in them, and rice flour, has to be there. British bangers, Irish sausage, rusk has to be there... someone above didnt like them, but that doesn't change the fact that a correctly made one is often 10% rusk filler/binder--that's what makes it a banger.

SmokinEdge SmokinEdge mentioned phosphates in emulsified sausage above, I totally agree.

Potato starch is a fantastic additive for formed meats like ham, and spam. Without it, you get meat juice jelly pockets that don't market well, with it you get nice evenly filled pockets that can't be detected.

World famous Central TX German BBQ sausage, as made by Kreuz Market and Smitty's, require the traditional use of Bull Flour (finely ground wheat, corn, rye, rice, oats) to bind fat in a mostly beef sausage that is cooked at BBQ temps up 225 or more. Both owners are on record that it is absolutely essential to make theor product correctly. I've made it with and without Bull Flour, and sure enough the texture and flavor matches Kreuz correctly WITH the flour, and fat doesn't drip out.

Just wanted to throw in some examples to emphasize that binders are not bad things to be avoided, just a tool to achieve particular results.
 
Out of curiousity, what did people do before it was easy to process sausage at near freezing temperatures? Did they wait until winter or just have bad sausages. I could see a place like Kreuz grinding a bunch of meat at room temp back in the day. I've had fat smear out on me so I definitely go the near frozen route.
 
Out of curiousity, what did people do before it was easy to process sausage at near freezing temperatures? Did they wait until winter or just have bad sausages. I could see a place like Kreuz grinding a bunch of meat at room temp back in the day. I've had fat smear out on me so I definitely go the near frozen route.
Binders ;) hehe...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Dustin Dorsey
Out of curiousity, what did people do before it was easy to process sausage at near freezing temperatures?
Summer sausage got that name because it was a way to preserve meat as a shelf stable sausage during the colder months, to be consumed during the warmer months.
 
Back in the day, for a home producer they generally slaughtered and butchered in late fall early winter when temperatures were right. This is when Mother Nature gives us a natural refrigerator. All cured meats, and meats to be semi dried or fully dried were started then. For commercial butchers, they had ice houses where ice would be cut in blocks by saw from rivers or lakes and stored for the warmer months in underground cellars or basement type set ups, they used sawdust or straw as an insulator for the ice. These rooms were quite cool and a metal pan sitting on a large block of ice is a fairly cool spot. So they got by. Not as easy as today nor as efficient but still got the job done. The ice houses were key to summer butchering also. Still had to be consumed quickly but could keep a few days in the ice room.
 
SmokingMeatForums.com is reader supported and as an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases.

Latest posts

Hot Threads

Clicky