Anyone Use Star Anise for Curing Hams?

[chopsaw]

fresh sausage brat recipe? antioxidant maybe?

I used it in the Len Poli Nurnberg brat formula . He notes it as optional . Antioxidant used to preserve color . This mixture has smoked bacon in it , and I'm thinking that's why he uses it . I'm guessing the bacon could get an off color to it when stored .
It also has a slight citrus flavor to it .

I use erythorbate at 0.05%

That's what I like about the Owens pre mix . It has it in there . It also works as an emulsifier . Sets the color and aids in the texture on summer sausage . I keep all that stuff on hand . My opinion is it's a must have if you're using cheese in your summer sausage .

 

[forktender]

Well, this is to taste kinda thing. But when I do holiday ham, I use pickling spice, slightly crushed, and 3-4 star anise in a gallon of water (pops brine kinda) I like anise but I error on the side of caution, but everyone’s taste is different. I grew up on biscochitos, basically a sugar cookie with cinnamon and anise. Here is about what I put in my 1 gallon brine slightly crushed, ymmv.
View attachment 515587

This is just my personal opinion, that is going to make it a very anise forward tasting ham. I love anise, and I'd only put one, maybe two rough crushed pods into a ham brine. Star anise is a very strong spice!!!

When I make Porchetta's I only use 1/2 of a pod, and you can pick up the S.A. flavor right away.

 

[forktender]

I think yes partly but also for flavor. A little acidity helps the flavor of many foods. It's one of my secret weapons but is a little dangerous since as you say it accelerates cure.

It's a preservative, flavor booster, and it also helps emulsify and soften the meat, so it's a texture thing as well, the same reason they put it in store bought bacon. Likewise, it softens the final product, so the bacon isn't as crispy as homemade bacon is.

 

[zwiller]

It's a preservative, flavor booster, and it also helps emulsify and soften the meat, so it's a texture thing as well, the same reason they put it in store bought bacon. Likewise, it softens the final product, so the bacon isn't as crispy as homemade bacon is.

That's funny, after I typed it I thought it might do other things but was not sure. While we're talking about it, citric acid is basically just acidity right? Lemon juice, wine, beer, etc except that citric acid is of known pH and there is better control. I've been contemplating using sour cream in my weisswurst and this may have convinced me.

 

[indaswamp]

Good discussion guys....

 

[jcam222]

What a great thread! Bookmarked for future reference. The raw spice vs extract is interesting. I’ve used maple extract when doing bacon. I wonder if simmering the curing brine with raw spices would help to release the oils and flavor in lieu of extracts?

 

[SmokinEdge]

the same reason they put it in store bought bacon.

In commercial bacon that is stitch pumped, the USDA requires sodium ascorbic [sodium erythorbate] to be used to accelerate the cure and help dissipate the nitrite in the final product.

 

[SmokinEdge]

This is just my personal opinion, that is going to make it a very anise forward tasting ham. I love anise, and I'd only put one, maybe two rough crushed pods into a ham brine. Star anise is a very strong spice!!!

When I make Porchetta's I only use 1/2 of a pod, and you can pick up the S.A. flavor right away.

Like any spice, it is subjective to personal preference. Best advice is to start low and add until satisfied. The amount of meat in the brine will have a large effect on the final flavor. Also, boiling the brine prior to using it teas the spices more and brings much more of all the spice flavors to the front. I don’t boil and find the anise is fairly mild in the cold brine water, but everyone’s taste are different for sure.

 

[chopsaw]

. I wonder if simmering the curing brine with raw spices would help to release the oils and flavor in lieu of extracts?

Certainly helps . I don't simmer , but I'll crack or toast the seeds and put them in a mason jar . I boil some water then take it off the stove , let it cool a bit then pour it in the jar . Wait a couple minutes and lid it up and let it cool . Give it a good shake now and then .

 

[tallbm]

Wow so much good content!

Just remember not to boil the cure #1 or it kills it but all the other stuff can be boiled and cooled some before adding cure and then meat :)

This will be an interesting experiment. 1 star anise, 1 clove, 2 gallons of water, and 25 pounds of pork shoulder.

This is going to be super interesting to see how it turns out :D

 

[SmokinEdge]

Wow so much good content!

Just remember not to boil the cure #1 or it kills it but all the other stuff can be boiled and cooled some before adding cure and then meat :)

This will be an interesting experiment. 1 star anise, 1 clove, 2 gallons of water, and 25 pounds of pork shoulder.

This is going to be super interesting to see how it turns out :D

I think this is all wise. Intelligence guided by experience.

 

[zwiller]

Do any of you feel there is an improvement of flavor using either asorbic acid or erythobate?

 

[SmokinEdge]

Do any of you feel there is an improvement of flavor using either asorbic acid or erythobate?

You don’t want to use ascorbic acid, it violently reacts with nitrite, sodium ascorbic is fine and sodium erythorbate is what I use, but never in a brine because it accelerates the transformation of nitrite into nitric oxide. So unless you inject or are making sausage I would use erythorbate. As to the benefits, it helps fix the cured color, it is a preservative that does help with rancidity in fat, so storage time is longer. All in all I use it almost with everything thing I pump cure into or sausage that I cure. I don’t use in rubbed bacon either.

 

[scottishfoodie]

Hello everyone.

I'm looking to wet cure two 12 pound pork shoulders to be holiday "hams".

I was curious if anyone ever puts any Star Anise in your cure/brine for hams. I think it would be awesome but I can't find much info on how to use it in a brine like I plan to do. I just want to add some to the cure but not overdo it.

I have 25 pounds of pork shoulder plus the water. Besides the star anise it's pretty much cure #1, salt and sugar, so super simple.

Any input in this situation would be helpful as I am looking to prep this today or tomorrow to smoke next weekend.

 

[scottishfoodie]

Hello everyone.

Hi, I use star anise in my bacon cure. I dry roast it and then crush it lightly. Half of a star per kg works for me.

 

[zwiller]

You don’t want to use ascorbic acid, it violently reacts with nitrite, sodium ascorbic is fine and sodium erythorbate is what I use, but never in a brine because it accelerates the transformation of nitrite into nitric oxide. So unless you inject or are making sausage I would use erythorbate. As to the benefits, it helps fix the cured color, it is a preservative that does help with rancidity in fat, so storage time is longer. All in all I use it almost with everything thing I pump cure into or sausage that I cure. I don’t use in rubbed bacon either.

Thanks! OK, ascorbic acid for fresh sausages with no cure and erythorbate for things with cure. I ordered erythorbate. Not exactly the same thing but there are a few things similar used for brewing and while they do not make huge differences in quality there is some improvement. WRT speed. Would say a ham done with Omak method with added erythrobate be considered fully cured in a few hours or?

 

[chopsaw]

Omak method with added erythrobate be considered fully cured in a few hours or?

I wouldn't .
I never use it on whole muscle . Only SS or smoked sausage . I only use it to set the color and aid in the texture .

 

[zwiller]

Willing to try anything LOL.
https://www.dietzandwatson.com/product/Black-Forest-Smoked-Ham-4

 

[SmokinEdge]

Would say a ham done with Omak method with added erythrobate be considered fully cured in a few hours or?

It would be a couple hours in ground and stuffed meat as sausage. Using erythorbate there you can pretty much go straight to the smoker once the outside of the casings have dried. I’ve done that and it works fine, but the sausage is always better when I smoke the next day.

In whole muscle like ham, it Won’t work that fast (a few hours). Commercial producers of ham inject with a stitch pump which has hundreds of needles and pumps under pressure so they can actually pump more than 10% green weight of the ham and is more thoroughly distributed in the in the meat than we can do at home. Next they put the hams into a vacuum tumbler for several hours to further distribute the curing solution in the ham, we don’t have access to a vacuum tumbler, still it take commercial makers about 24 hr before they can go to smoke.

At home, it still takes time for the curing solution to move through the solid meat, and time for the nitric oxide (from nitrite) to fix to the myoglobin in the meat. The transformation of nitrite into nitrous acid then into nitric oxide is accelerated by erythorbate, but the interaction with myoglobin (pink color) and the actual curing of the meat is not. I use erythorbate in Dave’s recipe and have often thought that they may be done around day 3, but always go the 5 days the recipe calls for, sometimes longer if it’s convenient. I do think the erythorbate does help with the flavor after being frozen a while, and the color doesn’t fade. I also like the fact that the residual nitrite after completing the process is lower.

 

[chopsaw]

Willing to try anything

You're going to see it in a lot of things . I think mainly as a preservative to hold the color in lunch meat . Give it a shot .