Added valves plus PID controller to propane smoker

[indaswamp]

NICE!

 

[solman]

If I were using a PID for my smoker I would use one of 2 types of thermocouples.
"K" type 1/16" insulated, ungrounded in a stainless steel / iconnell sheath, or 1/8" exhaust thermocouple with an ungrounded exposed tip.
note: ungrounded is not as fast as grounded but.. most PIDs require them.

I think i found some on Amazon. i was thinking of purchasing the second link below, the one that has glass braid insulation. But would any of these work?
LINK 1
LINK 2
LINK 3

and here's the amazon link to the first one i asked about earlier. if i went with this, i was thinking i could use a grate probe mount to wrap the wiring around it to use as a mount: REED Instruments TP-01 Beaded Thermocouple Wire Probe, Type K, -40 to 482°F (-40 to 250°C)

 

[river100]

I think i found some on Amazon. i was thinking of purchasing the second link below, the one that has glass braid insulation. But would any of these work?
LINK 1
LINK 2
LINK 3

and here's the amazon link to the first one i asked about earlier. if i went with this, i was thinking i could use a grate probe mount to wrap the wiring around it to use as a mount: REED Instruments TP-01 Beaded Thermocouple Wire Probe, Type K, -40 to 482°F (-40 to 250°C)

I would go for Link # 3 over the others. remember the smoke residue build up may be a problem over time. You could always wipe it down after smokes.
I would compromise with a 1/16" sheathed with a long part of it left un touched to keep heat sinking down. But hey for 12 bucks it's worth a test. You will definitely see more activity with that exposed tip.
I'm curious to see how that would work since your are using gas.
If you try the exposed tip remember that the graph you see will only be as good as the sample rate of the measuring system.
If it's taking reading every 3 minutes then that's as good as it gets for the graph.

 

[river100]

This graphing server only samples every 5 minutes.

 

[solman]

i use the Inkbird bluetooth 4 probe thermometer to come up with my graphs. i think it has a sampling rate of 1 second. the Auber PID has a sampling rate of 4 seconds, and the oem probe looks like a typical temperature probe stick that has too much mass. i'll check out the probe you suggested, link 3, and see how it goes. the Auber oem probe does take forever to heat up, and hoping the link 3 probe is quicker sensing.

 

[indaswamp]

The only changes I can see to this set up is installing a needle valve up stream of the solenoid on the main gas feed line to the solenoid. This will allow you to meter the gas flow down so that when the solenoid opens, the flame will not be full blast. You can gently raise the temps.

With automated control, huge swings in temps. should be minimized. This mod. achieves this goal.

 

[solman]

i find myself saying "it's good enough" to a lot of things lately, and in this case, it's good enough. :) once it gets up to or past the set value, e.g. 225, the solenoid shuts off. it'll cycle once every 15 seconds when it'll be on full blast to maintain the SV. it's such a short blast that it doesn't really concern me. it's also a low pressure burner, so full blast really isn't that much larger than the pilot setting.

 

[indaswamp]

Where did you buy the solenoid? Do you have a parts number for it?

 

[solman]

Where did you buy the solenoid? Do you have a parts number for it?

I bought everything but the PID from Amazon.

Safety shutoff and themocouple:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7QWFI/?tag=smokingmeatforums-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BP7LJ2/?tag=smokingmeatforums-20

Auber PID (i have the older 1614 version):
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?m...ex&cPath=14_27

Solenoid valve:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00APDNPXG/?tag=smokingmeatforums-20

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you!

 

[river100]

solman, did you try out the smaller thermocouple yet ?
would like to hear about your results.

 

[solman]

solman, did you try out the smaller thermocouple yet ?
would like to hear about your results.

i ended up getting a cheap set from amazon, $14 for 5 pieces: link

compared to the Auber's OEM probe, these new ones are like instead read. the Auber's temperature readout would update every 4-5 seconds with the OEM probe, but the new probes were updating the temperature readout every second or less. the Auber's sampling is set at 4 seconds, so i don't think it mattered in terms of the PID, but it was nice to see temperature readout that was much quicker to respond versus the OEM 4-5 seconds.

lately i've been on a rib craving, so i did another batch this past sunday. the inkbird thermometer app kept crashing, but i was able to get a couple hours of graph before it crashed again. this is just before pulling the ribs to wrap, and then after. temperature recovery to 230F was perfect.

i also redid the auto tune with an already hot smoker to tune it to the new probes. the inkbird thermometer is a 4 probe unit which i have placed in the upper left and right, and bottom left and right. then i took four of the new thermocouples and wrapped them around the inkbird probes, making sure the tips didn't touch. my Auber is only a 1 probe unit, so i took turns putting each new thermocouple into the Auber to double check the temperature against the inkbird. there were times when the inkbird and auber probes all read the same, and times when they were slightly different. all in all, i'm glad i bought these new probes. :)

the only thing that prevents this from being a true "set it and forget it" is that i still have to add a chunk of wood every few hours. but i'm ok with that, because hanging around the smoker and checking on it is still part of the fun for me.

 

[pgaron]

I ended up making one of these for my smoker here are 2 videos of it. I built it using almost the exact same parts and the same plans plus the extra needle valve sugessted in the comments.

Testing the valves and flame sensor https://photos.app.goo.gl/vovCGpeUh8boR18UA

Testing pid

New video by Andrea Garon

photos.app.goo.gl

Album https://photos.app.goo.gl/uXMocsc884rAPkin7

 

[bourbon1980]

Curious if this would work in my homemade wooden smoker. Seems like I’m missing some parts maybe, typically I have been only using a propane burner and needle valve for controlling my heat. 20-24 hour smokes on summer sausage with southern temp swings 20 degrees I’m having to check it every hour night and day.

Anyone have an idea of what I would be missing from this set up? The burner want yet out inside in these pics but it’s just a propane burner and and tank with a needle valve.

 

[solman]

Curious if this would work in my homemade wooden smoker. Seems like I’m missing some parts maybe, typically I have been only using a propane burner and needle valve for controlling my heat. 20-24 hour smokes on summer sausage with southern temp swings 20 degrees I’m having to check it every hour night and day.

Anyone have an idea of what I would be missing from this set up? The burner want yet out inside in these pics but it’s just a propane burner and and tank with a needle valve.

it should work as long as you're using a low pressure regulator. you'd need everything in the first pic except the needle valve.

 

[bourbon1980]

it should work as long as you're using a low pressure regulator. you'd need everything in the first pic except the needle valve.

Solman,

Thank you for the response, it seems like I’m missing something though correct? It is that tired directly into the gas line in between the tank and burner and that’s it?

 

[solman]

Solman,

Thank you for the response, it seems like I’m missing something though correct? It is that tired directly into the gas line in between the tank and burner and that’s it?

yes it basically sits in between the regulator/tank and the burner. the solenoid is controlled by the PID and manages propane flow to maintain the set temperature. the hose that bypasses the solenoid is always on and is used to maintain a temperature just slightly below the set temperature; i use my smoker's built-in control knob to control this part of the propane flow. for example, i may have my smoker's control knob set so that it can maintain 210F +/- 10F on its own, then i'll set my PID to 230F. when the PID senses a temp drop below 230F, it'll open the solenoid, and shut it off when the temp starts to rise.

 

[bourbon1980]

yes it basically sits in between the regulator/tank and the burner. the solenoid is controlled by the PID and manages propane flow to maintain the set temperature. the hose that bypasses the solenoid is always on and is used to maintain a temperature just slightly below the set temperature; i use my smoker's built-in control knob to control this part of the propane flow. for example, i may have my smoker's control knob set so that it can maintain 210F +/- 10F on its own, then i'll set my PID to 230F. when the PID senses a temp drop below 230F, it'll open the solenoid, and shut it off when the temp starts to rise.

Solman,

thank you very much for the explanation! That makes sense now! I’ll keep you posted on my progress!

 

[bourbon1980]

Solman,

I’m also curious about the wiring of the valve to the controller and if any relays were used. Seems like I’d need a NC relay tied into the valve.
Trent

 

[solman]

Solman,

I’m also curious about the wiring of the valve to the controller and if any relays were used. Seems like I’d need a NC relay tied into the valve.
Trent

Not sure of other PID controllers but the one i used has a relay built into the output. I believe it's a 12v 1a output which happens to be the same as the input of the solenoid.