32MM UMAI question

[Blackdogbbq21]

I'm finally going to give the Umai bags a try to make some salami's. I noticed the 32 mm kit from Umai includes cure #2. Looking at past threads here it seems like other folks that have used the 32MM size had there salamis reach 40% moisture loss in less than 30 days. It's my understanding that cure #1 should be used for projects that will take less than 30 days. Has anyone that has used the 32 mm bags had a project take more than 30 days to hit 40% moisture loss?

 

[SmokinEdge]

I’ve done a lot of Umai sausage. In my opinion, cure #2 should not be used at all with Umai. We use nitrite (cure #1) to directly cure meat. We use cure #2 (nitrite and nitrate) to cure longer aged or dried products, but nitrate does not cure meat directly and must be converted to nitrite. This is done through bacteria interaction with the nitrate. In refrigeration under 40*F these bacteria are dormant and do not interact with nitrate, leaving the nitrate to the finish of the sausage. In the drying process in the refrigerator, cure #2 is not converting to all nitrite. I don’t use cure #2 in this process, I only use cure #1 for the reasons I have posted. If going longer in the drying process than 30 days just up the amount of cure #1. The USDA allows up to 625ppm for dry aged curing. This works perfectly in refrigeration dry curing. No need here for nitrates.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I'm finally going to give the Umai bags a try to make some salami's. I noticed the 32 mm kit from Umai includes cure #2. Looking at past threads here it seems like other folks that have used the 32MM size had there salamis reach 40% moisture loss in less than 30 days. It's my understanding that cure #1 should be used for projects that will take less than 30 days. Has anyone that has used the 32 mm bags had a project take more than 30 days to hit 40% moisture loss?

Use the cure 2 that came with UMAi.

This may help some.

Prague Powder #1
Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to ‘gas out’ at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat.


Prague Powder #2
Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. (1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.) It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure. A cure with sodium nitrite would dissipate too quickly. Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat. When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe.

 

[chopsaw]

I agree with Rick. Use cure 2 and follow the umai directions .

 

[SmokinEdge]

This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide

Fine and good, but what causes nitrate to convert to nitrite? Lactobacillus Bacteria. The bacteria we are talking about is not active at refrigeration temperature (33-40*F) the nitrate cannot convert to nitrite without that Lactobacillus bacteria interaction, so why use it with Umai? Please explain…… the last 5# jug of cure #2 I bought is only 1% nitrate. This was from The Sausage Maker. No point to nitrate in Umai at refrigeration temperature. In the curing chamber, absolutely use it as temps are in the 50’s, but not in the fridge. Science is against your statement with Umai. Beyond that, the 32mm sausage will finish in 30 days or less, again no reason for cure #2. Most all of the nitrate will still be in your sausage at the end of the Umai process, no matter how long. Nitrate just will not reduce at refrigeration temps.

 

[TNJAKE]

Fine and good, but what causes nitrate to convert to nitrite? Lactobacillus Bacteria. The bacteria we are talking about is not active at refrigeration temperature (33-40*F) the nitrate cannot convert to nitrite without that Lactobacillus bacteria interaction, so why use it with Umai? Please explain…… the last 5# jug of cure #2 I bought is only 1% nitrate. This was from The Sausage Maker. No point to nitrate in Umai at refrigeration temperature. In the curing chamber, absolutely use it as temps are in the 50’s, but not in the fridge. Science is against your statement with Umai. Beyond that, the 32mm sausage will finish in 30 days or less, again no reason for cure #2. Most all of the nitrate will still be in your sausage at the end of the Umai process, no matter how long. Nitrate just will not reduce at refrigeration temps.

Isn't the point of cure #2 for the fermentation stage using umai where you hang the the product at room temp for a few days? I'm no pro but have umai casings and that was the impression I was under. Just the added safety from not being under refrigeration. Just here to learn as I'm making umai pepperoni soon

 

[DougE]

Isn't the point of cure #2 for the fermentation stage using umai where you hang the the product at room temp for a few days? I'm no pro but have umai casings and that was the impression I was under. Just the added safety from not being under refrigeration. Just here to learn as I'm making umai pepperoni soon

The point of cure#2 is for the drying stage. The nitrate being converted to nitrite during drying stage protects the meat from spoilage. The nitrite part of cure#2 is what is active at the fermentation stage.

 

[TNJAKE]

The point of cure#2 is for the drying stage. The nitrate being converted to nitrite during drying stage protects the meat from spoilage. The nitrite part of cure#2 is what is active at the fermentation stage.

So cure #2 is required right?

 

[DougE]

So cure #2 is required right?

For Umai, I don't know the answer, but where using a drying chamber, yes.

 

[TNJAKE]

For Umai, I don't know the answer, but where using a drying chamber, yes.

Gotcha. Seems to me drying chamber or not cure 2 is needed due to the lack of refrigeration

 

[SmokinEdge]

Gotcha. Seems to me drying chamber or not cure 2 is needed due to the lack of refrigeration

Cure #1 is 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% salt.
cure #2 now is 6.25% sodium nitrite, 1% sodium nitrate, and 92.75% salt.
The power of the product is the nitrite. Again the nitrate is for the long haul, not fermentation. It’s there for a steady supply of nitrite after being converted by bacteria over time. At refrigeration temperature this subject of nitrate is all but moot. Scientifically, biologically, and physically can not happen in any meaningful way at 33-40*F. That’s just fact. Nitrite is the driver of safety. It cures directly at refrigeration temps and warmer temps. Most places in Europe don’t even use nitrate any more, just nitrite. European cure salt (Peklosol) doesn’t even contain nitrate. They long cure a. Lot of meats.

 

[indaswamp]

Fine and good, but what causes nitrate to convert to nitrite? Lactobacillus Bacteria. The bacteria we are talking about is not active at refrigeration temperature (33-40*F) the nitrate cannot convert to nitrite without that Lactobacillus bacteria interaction, so why use it with Umai? Please explain…… the last 5# jug of cure #2 I bought is only 1% nitrate. This was from The Sausage Maker. No point to nitrate in Umai at refrigeration temperature. In the curing chamber, absolutely use it as temps are in the 50’s, but not in the fridge. Science is against your statement with Umai. Beyond that, the 32mm sausage will finish in 30 days or less, again no reason for cure #2. Most all of the nitrate will still be in your sausage at the end of the Umai process, no matter how long. Nitrate just will not reduce at refrigeration temps.

Point of clarification here...
Lactobacillus bacteria lack the nitrate reductase enzyme and play no part in nitrate reduction to nitrite. It is the Staphylococcus strains in the culture that perform this task.

 

[indaswamp]

Also point of note: Nitrate reductase will still perform at temps. below 40*F, but it is exponentially slower than the reduction of nitrate @50*F; and according to my research 55*F being the optimum temperature for nitrate reduction enzyme activity of the staph culture bacteria used in meat fermentation cultures....

 

[indaswamp]

the last 5# jug of cure #2 I bought is only 1% nitrate

Odd as it may seem....there is no standard nitrate percentage in cure #2 curing salts. Percentages are all over the map and vary anywhere from 1% to 4% so it's best to check the one you are using so you know what you got. The cure #2 I bought just happened to have 4% sodium nitrate:

Anthony's Cure #2

 

[indaswamp]

And personally, I would not worry about residual nitrates in the final product. If the curing salt was used properly and not exceeding the upper limit, then it is safe. You would likely eat more nitrates in raw celery sticks and leafy spinach than in your finished dry cured meats.....

 

[indaswamp]

All that said, If anyone decides to use cure #2 when making a salami with umai 32mm casings, then it would be a good plan to do as SE suggests and pull the salami from the fridge to hang at room temp. for 24 hours every 5-6 days. This will warm the salami and allow the staph. bacteria to reduce the nitrate in a warmer environment. But I would caution that the Lactobacillus bacteria will also wake up and become active again. So if you used excess sugars while making a slow fermented salami you could get a secondary fermentation and pH drop will resume.

If you are making a fast fermented tangy style salami, this step will not work as the pH is too low for the staph bacteria to perform nitrate reductase activity anyhow.....