2012 Masterbuilt Smokers - NEW 30" & 40" Models!

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I have the new MES30. Something must be wrong with my temperature probes. On recommendation elsewhere I purchased the supposedly very accurate 2-port Thermoworks TW8060 (BBQ Pro kit) and used it to monitor both oven and meat probe temperatures. Everything tracks nicely at low temperatures (all 4 readings within 1/2F at 55F) but starts to deviate more and more after 70F. From my notes, meat probe MES30 133F vs 154F (slight difference in location since I plugged 2 different probes into meat). Oven MES30 270F to get 235F.

Cabinet light is a puzzle, it's designed to light up your feet. I read somewhere (they even plot it out) that there is very little impact to the meat temperature when you open the door. I have opened the door to let the white smoke out but haven't done that to look inside. I should do that next time instead of using a flashlight.
Justin, morning and welcome to the forum....   At times there is a difference in temp probes...  I recommend you do a test that I will describe here...

Place a tray of cooking oil in the smoker, preferably on the upper middle rack in the center of the smoker in an aluminum pan... Place the MES meat probe in it... Place the 2 probes from your remote therm in it also...  make sure only the first 1" or 2" of the probes are submerged in the oil.... you do not want to submerge the cable wrappings....  All three probes in the oil should read the same... Adjust the temp of the smoker upward in 50 degree increments and note the temp readings... 1-smoker temp, and the three probe temps... continue the test at 50 degree increments until you have reached 250 degrees.... ( 100-150-200-250)... Each step waiting for the smoker to equilibrate to the new temp step.... I would expect the 3 probes to always read the same and the MES smoker temp to be different due to its location.....   This will give you a chart you can refer to when adjusting the smoker temp when smoking food... If the three probes are different, make a chart noting the difference so you can adjust for the differences when cooking....  Finding and calibrating temp probes to be perfect is near impossible... Charting differences and using the charts is easy....  

Dave 
Thanks Dave. Calibrating in steps is an excellent idea instead of taking notes randomly like I did. They are ripping apart my kitchen right now so I don't know where my oil is :) but will do it when I get the kitchen back. I assume you use oil instead of water because of the better heat transfer. It would be nice to have the translation chart although the Thermoworks meat probe is nice because it beeps when the meat reaches its set temperature. Meat came out very good off of 2 attempts so I am pleased with my smoking adventure.
The idea of the oil is great.

There is a lot with thermometry that is not obvious, and people are frequently annoyed by differences they see between readings using different thermometers or probes even if all of the thermometers are accurate.

I had complaints that the thermocouple probes for a data acquisition system I installed at one of the labs just had to be incorrect because the lab personnel were shocked at the readings they were getting from their various ovens.  And they had "proven" that the probes or data acq system were bad by putting the probes from all of the ovens into just one of the ovens and then seen widely different temperatures recorded by them all.

I told them that they could NOT rely on putting the probes in one oven to get the probes to the same temperature because the temp would vary from place to place within the same oven.  They couldn't believe it could be so far different.

When I came back to their lab to do an annual calibration of their systems and thermometers, I did a little experiment for them.  I took the four thermocouple probes in question, and placed their four tips directly together, then wrapped this bundle tightly together with a length of thin copper wire.  Then I placed the bundle of probes' tips into a machined aluminum heat block (part of a COD reactor), stuffed the back end of that cavity (an opening to accept a test tube) with some paper towel to insulate it all and hold the probes in place, and set that device for 150 degrees C.  After the block and the thermocouples came up to a stable temperature, I let the data acquisition system record things for about a half hour.  I was then able to show everyone who doubted the system that the four TCs all reported the exact same tempreature to within plus or minus one least significant digit of the system's resolution.  In other words, they all showed the same temperature to within about seven one hundredths of a degree, and tracked with each other perfectly.

After that, the people there were forced to face the reality that their ovens had enormous variations in temperature even if the probes were placed only a few inches apart within the same oven.

So never be fooled into thinking that a smoker or probe or thermometer is "wrong" just because it doesn't match what another probe or thermometer says unless you have a very good way to assure that all of the thermometers in question are thermally coupled together very tightly.

Further, one of the things I have observed over the years is that people frequently see differences in thermometer readings in walk-in coolers, etc., and blame one or another of the thermometers or probes.  But many factors are always at work to fool you.

One big difference between probes or thermometers is the thermal time constant of each thermometer or probe.  Different probes react at different rates to changes in temperature.  This is made even worse if the only thing coupling the different thermometers together is air.  Most "temperature controlled" systems cycle up and down in temperature.  Ovens switch on and off.  Smokers do this, too.  Refrigerators and walk-in coolers do it big-time!  You can have temperature cycles of tens of degrees or more!

If you compare readings from various probes all at once, you can think that the probes are reading differently when in fact, they're just reacting to the changes in temperature at different rates.

You have to compare the average readings over time spans that encompass many cycles of the heating or cooling system to make much sense of things.  And even then, it is difficult unless you have a data logging system so you can do numeric averaging, and look at graphs of temperature versus time, etc.

The oil is a good idea because it will help present all of the probes with the same actual temperature, and it should help average the oven's temperature fluctuations over a longer time which will reduce the effects of the time constants that your different probes certainly have.

I still like the idea of tying all of the probes' tip ends together tightly with something like thin, solid, copper wire, to make sure they're seeing the same point in the oil, too.  You'd be surprised at the thermal gradients you'll have from point to point within a container of oil, too!  For accurate thermometer calibration, you need a very tightly controlled stirred oil bath or a specially-built thermal block (usually aluminum or copper) to guarantee that the thermometer being tested is really truly at the temperature of the calibration system's reference sensor.

If all of the systems you're comparing have probes on cables, you can arrange a good experiment.  If not, it makes things much more difficult.  For example:  I'd like to test the accuracy of the sensor that controls the heater in my new electric smoker.  But that sensor is built into the back wall of the smoker.  I could take the smoker apart so I can place that little probe into a good calibration system.  But my other option is to find a way to couple a known reference probe to the smoker's probe while leaving it in place.

If I can put a small probe with a long enough heat-resistant cable on it inside the smoker, and run that cable out to the readout device, I can do it that way.  But I will still need to directly couple the two probes together thermally.  And I'll still have the differences in the probes' thermal time constants to deal with.  I might be able to place the very tips of the two probes against each other and wrap that "array" carefully with some copper wire to tie them together physically and thermally.  Then wrap that whole thing with some aluminum foil, then put some paper towel around them or something like that to insulate the "blob" and slow down the cycling seen by it.  But I won't ever consider the test I get this way to be extremely accurate. At least not lab-accurate. 
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Still, with the probes tied together as well as is practical, I'd get a decent comparison.  Probably good enough for smoker operation.

Sorry for the long-winded post, again, but this is a subject that occupies a lot of my time at work, so I'm kind of nuts about it.

Edit to add:

Even if you get your sensors and thermometers all accurately calibrated or their differences noted, don't imagine that this will somehow assure that your smoker will be highly accurate.  It still won't be the same temperature in any two places at any given time.  It just will not happen.  Without some means to stir the air in the smoker, there will always be huge differences due to stagnation and the chaos of the air's convection currents.  Dead air in corners, flowing air right above the heating element, interference in convection currents created by the meat...  It all adds up to a setup that's not well controlled at all, unless you have a very fancy smoker.

Some of the commercial ones I see on TV have racks that rotate around inside of the smoker to try to keep things even.  That would be great, but it's not a feature I see on our inexpensive home units.  But there may be things we can do.

I'm still thinking about putting small stirring fan in a smoker. 
 
I was at Sams in San Marcos Tx yesterday and they too have the older unit for $299..
That's the same at the Casper, Wyoming Sam's Club.
 
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Howdy, Sigmo!

WRT the smoke vent: The crimped end of the elbow is just pushed down and into the gasket surrounding the vent. I don't have it adjusted at 90* in this photo but have done since.


Here are some links to threads that might give you some ideas. Note that they are posted by DaveOmak. He has several good posts on mods to the MES30 - all of which will work on the 40.

Heat Distribution
Final(?) Mod
heat tunnel
Heat distribution too
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/120391/mes-30-modification-i-think-its-the-final-mod
 
Howdy, Sigmo!
WRT the smoke vent: The crimped end of the elbow is just pushed down and into the gasket surrounding the vent. I don't have it adjusted at 90* in this photo but have done since.

Here are some links to threads that might give you some ideas. Note that they are posted by DaveOmak. He has several good posts on mods to the MES30 - all of which will work on the 40.
Heat Distribution
Final(?) Mod
heat tunnel
Heat distribution too
Thanks!  That's very helpful. I may have to slip out to the Home Depot and see if I can snag a section of pipe like that.

Those links are informative.  It looks like Dave's heat distribution pan in the top does just what I'd hope it would do to keep the air from actually being drawn out over on the right side of the smoker where the factory opening is.  I like it a lot.

All of the other mods look like they'd help, too.

I still need to order that AMNPS unit.  That looks like a must-have!

Thanks for the links.

I'm going to have fun playing with all of this!
 
So, I understand that if I get the MES40, I immediately have to retrofit the box that holds the wood chips. Now, I'm reading about how everyone's temps are off. Seriously? I don't have time for this nonsense. I've been trying to decide between the MES40 and the WSM. I'm thinking WSM at this point! No muss, no fuss. It may require some extra monitoring but at least there aren't any parts to break. Am I correct in understanding this? I'm a self-professed newbie here so this is all new to me. Please enlighten me.
 
SmokingGirl, once you get the temps figured out, which doesn't take but one maybe two times of firing it up, it's pretty much set and forget it. As far as the retrofit, I never did it because the old one holds more than enough chips/pellets. A great supplement to the MES40 is  Todd's A-MAZE-N smoker products, especially for cold smoking or low and long smokes. 
 
I know this thread is a few months old but wanted to give my input. Like wraunch I bought my MES 30 off Amazon for $189. Walmart had it for $179 online but was sold out. Didn't even think of asking for a price match. Then, confound it all, Amazon had it for $179 about 2 weeks after I received it. Don't know if they or the seller to retro price matches; didn't think to ask until now.

The one that was shipped to me was the older model, not the update. I've got no problems with the digital controls on top of the box, or the water pan or wood chip trays. I did get a free larger wood chip tray from MB customer service but haven't installed it yet.

The new 30 model is too rich for my blood and bank account; the price I paid was about at the limit of what I could afford. I don't need a glass door to look inside because I cook by temp and time. It has a top vent and more importantly, it has the bars for my beloved AMNPS.

I haven't done any mods to my MB and don't plan to since I'm not the handyman type and so I typically use things the way they were originally made. Just like, although I'm a computer tech, I don't overclock my CPU because I'm not a gamer.

I've only used my smoker twice and although I always like to buy the newest version of anything, I'm perfectly happy with the MB 30 version I just got last month.
 
I have a MES 40 (a few years old) and it works fine out of the box for hot smoking even without the chip tray retrofit thingy. Sure there are things one can do to make it work even better,  but most are not necessary (in my opinion) to use the MES satisfactorily. Getting a AMNPS (to avoid the need to replenish the chip tray often and to cold smoke) is a good move. Also, getting a thermometer (such as a Maverick ET-732) to monitor temps ensures you are smoking at the desired temperature, but this pretty much applies to most smokers. Other than that, you would be good to go with a stock MES in my opinion.

Please also keep in mind that there are many MES enthusiasts on this forum with a compulsion to provide lots of good advice to make the MES experience better. Just don't interpet all  this good advice as required things to do to use the MES satisfactorily. That is my advice anyway.
 
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This might be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but humor me... When you use the thermometer (like the EC-732), do the wires just get fed out through the door? Like between the the frame of the smoker and the door seal???
 
This might be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but humor me... When you use the thermometer (like the EC-732), do the wires just get fed out through the door? Like between the the frame of the smoker and the door seal???
I'm not familiar with the thermometer you mention, but any thermometer with a cable running to a probe, assuming that the cable and probe are good for the high temperatures, would work the same way.  Just run the wires in however you can.  If that means just pinching them between the door's gasket and the smoker, and the cable is thin enough to allow this without damage, then that should be fine.

You could also run the cable(s) in through the vent as long as you're sure you won't want to close the vent off more than this will allow.
 
This might be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but humor me... When you use the thermometer (like the EC-732), do the wires just get fed out through the door? Like between the the frame of the smoker and the door seal???
I ran both of my probes (oven and meat) through the vent.
 
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I have a MES 40 (a few years old) and it works fine out of the box for hot smoking even without the chip tray retrofit thingy. Sure there are things one can do to make it work even better,  but most are not necessary (in my opinion) to use the MES satisfactorily. Getting a AMNPS (to avoid the need to replenish the chip tray often and to cold smoke) is a good move. Also, getting a thermometer (such as a Maverick ET-732) to monitor temps ensures you are smoking at the desired temperature, but this pretty much applies to most smokers. Other than that, you would be good to go with a stock MES in my opinion.

Please also keep in mind that there are many MES enthusiasts on this forum with a compulsion to provide lots of good advice to make the MES experience better. Just don't interpet all  this good advice as required things to do to use the MES satisfactorily. That is my advice anyway.
Sounds about right. Need a thermometer. To expect the one that comes with the smoker to be accurate enough may be too much to ask. If you can borrow an accurate one and use the oil step calibration suggested you will save money, also the convenience of having it built in. Unless you need an alarm.

I bought AMNPS kit but haven't used. Unless you cold smoke, if you are getting a new 2012 MES, you might want to wait. As I found out and as reported by another member the new smoker is very efficient. I read in amazingribs, most of the smoke flavor is absorbed within the 1st hour. I think that assumes the smoker is efficient. I smoked a brisket using a 2012 MES30, filled the chip tray lightly twice and thought afterwards I should have done it only once. I did that again smoking a prime rib, now for sure I know I will fill the tray only once at start, and sparingly. But that's just my taste, more than one fill and it's too smokey for me.
 
Originally Posted by Sigmo  

Anyhow, when making these calculations, just keep in mind that we're talking about the rates at which this "work" can be done.  A 1200 Watt heater will raise the temperature of any given load twice as quickly as a 600Watt heater would.
Very informative post. I turned mine on and came back to check later so don't know how long it took to reach temperature but as far as maintaining temperature the new MES30 is 800W and is more than sufficient. Which means once at temperature, cooking takes the same amount of time. When checking on it I found it off more often than on. Which brings to mind a question about smoke efficiency. They had an interim chip tray design design which was not very good (not enough smoke) and changed back to this way. I've never heard the MES praised for smoke efficiency so I assume it's even better than the original design but what's the reason. The relocation of the vent to the side? or the lowering of the wattage of the heating element allowing the heat source to stay on more constantly.
 
Very informative post. I turned mine on and came back to check later so don't know how long it took to reach temperature but as far as maintaining temperature the new MES30 is 800W and is more than sufficient. Which means once at temperature, cooking takes the same amount of time. When checking on it I found it off more often than on. Which brings to mind a question about smoke efficiency. They had an interim chip tray design design which was not very good (not enough smoke) and changed back to this way. I've never heard the MES praised for smoke efficiency so I assume it's even better than the original design but what's the reason. The relocation of the vent to the side? or the lowering of the wattage of the heating element allowing the heat source to stay on more constantly.
I ordered one of the Amazin pellet smoker thingies.  I like the idea of separating the smoke generation from the temperature control of the smoker. 

But in order to make a commercial product and be able to sell it for a reasonable price, I can see why MB does things the way they do.  But it does bring up a lot of fairly complex interactions like what you're talking about.

If the heating element is too high powered, it will not spend much time on, so you won't get much smoke.  If it's underpowered, it won't be able to get the unit up to temperature quickly, and it won't be able to deal with extraordinary loads (too much meat with too much wet surface area - or too cold/windy outside).

With a separate smoke generator, you can control the temperature any way you want and not have that affect the smoke.  What might be neat would be a system with two electric heating elements.  One higher power unit, say 1200 Watts for a 40" and 800W for a 30" or whatever works well, and then a separate smoke-chip ignitor element.  That smoke chip ignitor could be controlled by a simple timing circuit that would cycle the element on and off with a user-adjustable duty cycle.  If you want more smoke, you set it to be on more of the time.  If you want less smoke, you turn it down so that it only comes on for a small percentage of the time.  It would have to be low enough powered that its heat didn't make the smoker get too hot, even when turned up to "high smoke", defeating the unit's temperature control.

You could design the smoker to "tolerate" the chip ignitor's heat by making the insulation in the unit worse, but then you are also doomed to higher electricity usage when you want to run the smoker hotter, and that's not desirable.

That's probably where you get into building a separate smoke-generator that pipes the smoke into the opening where the smoke chip loader goes or something like that.  That way, you may be able to design it so that most of the heat from the smoke-generator element won't go into the smoker.  But as long as it's fairly low powered, and the smoker isn't insulated too well, you may be able to get a lot of smoke with the whole works inside of the smoker.

I should go back and re-read the thread, but have we established what the power rating of the heating element is for the new, 2012 40" units?  Is it still 1200 Watts, or did they back it off a bit?
 
anyone besides Cabalas and Bass have the new 40 inch model. Also when I get one will is need a special circuit to plug into. Worryed about blowing breakers
 
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The 40" 2012 model will be 1200 watts
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Thanks!  I'm thinking of getting one of these for my son's birthday.  Ideally, Sam's would have the new ones by then, and have them for $299.  But it's possible that they will not get the new ones in time (or ever), and we don't know what their price will be on the new ones even if they DO get them.  So I might be better off getting him one of these 2011 units right away.  Besides, he's a tinkerer anyhow, and if MB has worked out all of the bugs in the new one, what fun would that be? 
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anyone besides Cabalas and Bass have the new 40 inch model. Also when I get one will is need a special circuit to plug into. Worryed about blowing breakers
The nameplate on my 2011 40" model, which also has a 1200 Watt heater just says 10 Amps.  So the controller and electronics doesn't add anything to the power requirement.  Thus, I think we can safely assume that both the 2011 and 2012 40" models will both require 10 Amps.  Unless you've got something else plugged into the same circuit, that draws quite a bit of power, I don't think you'll have any problems.

The circuit in my garage, where I plugged mine in, also has a freezer connected.  I ran it for a long time, smoking that pork shoulder, and it didn't trip the 20 Amp breaker that protects that circuit.

The thing I don't have is an outdoor receptacle right there.  I should wire one in, and if I do so, it needs to be a GFCI receptacle or circuit to meet code for an outdoor installation like that.  A GFCI is always a good idea for something being used outdoors.  As they say:  It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt. 
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Picked up my 40 at Bass Pro today. It went together easily. One screw on a foot (one of six) was stripped, but it's got five more to hold it on. I'll likely season it this weekend.
 
just got a reply from MB concerning new smokers   as follows:  

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your inquiry. The model you speak of is to be sold exclusively through Bass Pro and Cabelas. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

 

Regards,

 

Masterbuilt Customer Service
 
First smoke on the 2012 MES 40 yesterday. Turned out great.

First I smoked pork spare ribs at 225 for 5 hours total. Very moist and uncovered throughout the whole process. I will breakdown the following about the new smoker IMO only....Take it as my thoughts only.

1. The heating element really responds very quickly. what I mean is. I set the temperature at 235. I set 235 because my ribs are on the top rack and my remote temp was around 225 throughought. Give or take 10 to 15 degress. But when the heating element shut off at 235. The temp still rose to 240 or so. Then after about 10 minutes. The temp gradually went down to 234. Then the heating element kicked back on. So throughout the cook .The heating element went on and off pretty consistantly. Very good so far. I did take the smoke tray out and the vents close 3/4.

2. The meat thermoneter was almost dead on to the probe. I never moved the meat thermometer and it was only about 2 to 3 inches above the main probe on the right side of cabinet. Temps were within 1 to 3 degrees from main probe but higher.

3. The remote temp next to my rack in the back center was between 217 and 241 throughout. Very satisfied with this. This is my first cook so i might make some adjustments later.

4. I used the AMNPS with hickory. Ifilled one row with pellets and it lasted about 4 hours. Not heavy smoke but very consistent. No need to mo the cabinet for more air yet. I placed the AMNPS on drain pan to bottom left.

Overall. I am pleased so far. If anyone has any comments please let me know. Hope this is consistent with other users....
 
just got a reply from MB concerning new smokers   as follows:  


Good Morning,:p>


 :p>


Thank you for your inquiry. The model you speak of is to be sold exclusively through Bass Pro and Cabelas. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.:p>


 :p>


Regards,:p>


 :p>


Masterbuilt Customer Service:p>

I was told from MB on their Facebook page that Sam's will be carrying the new smoker. Maybe it will be a different model #??

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