Potato Vs. Corn Starch

[DougE]

Just watched. Can't believe I've been buying the wrong stuff for so long. Although I'm kicking myself for not doing the research, I'm happy that my technique has been decent enough to produce some good sausages with essentially no binder. Can't wait to try out the potato starch. I think I'll do 3% starting out.

Most of my recipes don't include any binder, but I sub in tater starch in the ones that do.

 

[Culinary Otter]

Most of my recipes don't include any binder

Is there a rule of thumb when one would want to use binder and when not to? I never have on the ones I make, but see a lot of recipes and premixes that do. I don't really understand the rhyme or reason tho.

 

[DougE]

I use it in poultry sausages to keep a little more moisture in them.

 

[Fueling Around]

I used potato starch in the 2 guys Noonch sausage recipe. I also tried it in a batch of my Jimmy Dean clone sausage.
Not sold on it yet and this from a very low salt maker. I don't have problems getting a good protein extraction ever at 0.5% salt. Simply need to mix longer and keep it cold so it isn't confused with fat smear.

Thank y'all for the info. How does it stack against NFMP? Is it a more economical option?

Milk powder is a protein based binder whereas the potato flour is a starch based. I don't like milk powder for the flavor it adds. I've got a high protein pea powder to try in a future sausage recipe.
I'm thinking in a Brit banger recipe with a high level of non active starch filler that needs better bind.

Is there a rule of thumb when one would want to use binder and when not to? I never have on the ones I make, but see a lot of recipes and premixes that do. I don't really understand the rhyme or reason tho.

You got me thinking too. I've never found a reason except for texture.
I don't have a problem with my low sodium

 

[SmokinEdge]

Binders are very beneficial in very lean sausages or very fatty sausages.
Gell binders like potato starch are very helpful in more lean sausages or where added texture is needed. The protein binders like NFDM are good for more fatty sausages.

Neither are strictly necessary in any sausage. But they can and are beneficial. The protein rich binders help to bind the fat in a rich sausage . They help bind the fat to the meat and retain water. The gel binders help a lot with very lean sausages with low fat. They pull everything together and add a great texture and mouth feel.

No binder is really necessary though. When sausage is made right , weather fatty or lean, a good texture can be had through proper processing.

 

[Culinary Otter]

You got me thinking too. I've never found a reason except for texture.
I don't have a problem with my low sodium

I'd like to figure this out. *sorry for the reference* on a BBQ competition show I was watching on something that rhymes with SnetPlix, one guy failed and someone recommended using milk fat as a binder to make it less crumbly.

Then I recalled he used a super lean meat.

As I reflect, is it just a fat content thing? I've always been super conscious of doing at least 25% fat in my sausage. No matter the recipe. With salt that just binds.

Is the milk fat like butter in cooking? Should you only add it as a binder if your sausage doesn't have enough fat?

I understand there's additives to retain moisture, this doesn't seem like one of them.

I am 100% spitballing here. Open ears closed mouth.

 

[Culinary Otter]

Binder is really necessary though. When sausage is made right , weather fatty or lean, a good texture can be had through proper processing.

That's a fantastic explanation

Binders are very beneficial in very lean sausages or very fatty sausages.
Gell binders like potato starch are very helpful in more lean sausages or where added texture is needed. The protein binders like NFDM are good for more fatty sausages.

Neither are strictly necessary in any sausage. But they can and are beneficial. The protein rich binders help to bind the fat in a rich sausage . They help bind the fat to the meat and retain water. The gel binders help a lot with very lean sausages with low fat. They pull everything together and add a great texture and mouth feel.

No binder is really necessary though. When sausage is made right , weather fatty or lean, a good texture can be had through proper processing.

Sorry missed this response. I would like to delve into this further.

I use AIM (Deheated mustard) for similar reasons. I would love to compare notes if you're not tired of my incessant questions

 

[Culinary Otter]

Binders are very beneficial in very lean sausages or very fatty sausages.

This makes so much sense, since I usually see it in brisket hot dogs or head cheese...

 

[mike243]

If you cook corn starch too long it loses its thickening properties. May not be an issue with sausage though.

there is a range where corn starch thickens well then breaks, I learned early on thickening gravies and soups ect, now I wonder about the Potatoe starch as well before I try it, the white color has always faded haven't seen it turn stuff white, better to know before I dive in lol

 

[DougE]

there is a range where corn starch thickens well then breaks, I learned early on thickening gravies and soups ect, now I wonder about the Potatoe starch as well before I try it, the white color has always faded haven't seen it turn stuff white, better to know before I dive in lol

I did some beef stew in the crockpot yesterday and added potato starch instead of the usual corn starch. It worked fine Maybe even better than corn starch. I add my thickener at the end though so neither really has time to break down.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I use AIM (Deheated mustard) for similar reasons. I would love to compare notes if you're not tired of my incessant questions

Never tired of questions.

 

[zachyweezer]

Binders are very beneficial in very lean sausages or very fatty sausages.
Gell binders like potato starch are very helpful in more lean sausages or where added texture is needed. The protein binders like NFDM are good for more fatty sausages.

Neither are strictly necessary in any sausage. But they can and are beneficial. The protein rich binders help to bind the fat in a rich sausage . They help bind the fat to the meat and retain water. The gel binders help a lot with very lean sausages with low fat. They pull everything together and add a great texture and mouth feel.

No binder is really necessary though. When sausage is made right , weather fatty or lean, a good texture can be had through proper processing.

Most of my sausages have a minimum of 30% fat. Should I still give potato starch a shot or stick with milk powder (high temp) for added moisture retention?

 

[mike243]

Crock pot probably can't run high enough to break it, I make sure I have plenty of slurry then stop all heat when I reach the thickness I want or keep adding till I do

 

[Fueling Around]

there is a range where corn starch thickens well then breaks, ... the white color has always faded haven't seen it turn stuff white, better to know before I dive in lol

I've noticed corn starch adds a degree of opaqueness in gravies especially in Asian dishes. It often gets masked by the darker liquids from soy and oyster sauces.
Potato starch is relatively clear, but if used in a dairy based gravy it picks up some color as it binds with the liquids.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Most of my sausages have a minimum of 30% fat. Should I still give potato starch a shot or stick with milk powder (high temp) for added moisture retention?

With 30% fat, why are you concerned with moisture retention? If you mix for a good protein extraction then no binder should be necessary. If you use a binder, either milk powder or potato starch will work fine. Milk powder will add some protein to help with sausage bind, the starch will gel and help with bind, both give slightly different texture, but in either case moisture should not be an issue with 30% or plus fat.

 

[Gonna Smoke]

There's a lot here to take in and understand, but I'm reading it all trying to learn. By the way, I got my Bob's potato starch in so I'm armed and dangerous...

 

[KBFlyer]

I can't remember which recipe that called for potato starch but I went looking all over for it. None to be found. Some stores said they used to carry it but it was not in high demand.
Only place I found it was on Amazon.

 

[indaswamp]

If I remember right, corn starch needs a higher temp closer to 180*F to clear up and really get thick; which is why it works in stews and such on the stove....

 

[SmokinEdge]

Most of my sausages have a minimum of 30% fat. Should I still give potato starch a shot or stick with milk powder (high temp) for added moisture retention?

Just to be clear. No “binder” is absolutely necessary in a sausage that is, ground right, processed right and handled right, no matter the fat percentage from 10% to 30%.

”Binder” has some confusion around it in sausage. I think that’s because of the English language and it’s ability to have multiple meanings for some words.

When we “bind“ a sausage, we are gluing it together or making it bind together (not crumbling) this is the batter or the mince as a whole.

However, ”binding” in sausage does also mean to bind water or moisture so the sausage is juicy.

”Binding” moisture is not a big deal so long as the fat content is there and of a quality fat. (Hard fat, not soft fat)

””Binding” the batter, mince, or the sausage mass is done through proper protein extraction.

What most generally causes a sausage to be crumbly or have a bad texture, is poor technique or process. And it most always stems from the fat being the culprit.

If the fat is not good hard fat it will melt at a lower temp and cause fat-out, if the fat is ground through a knife and plate that are dull the fat will smear, if the grinding process has the meat to warm it most certainly will smear even with a sharp knife and plate. If we do everything correct through the grinding phase and then allow the meat to warm above about 35*F while mixing the fat will melt just a little, this melting creates oil. In the mixing process we are trying to make a good protein extraction, this process creates a web of protein strings that “bind“ our mixture together, meat and fat, but if the fat is coated with a thin layer of oil from being a tad to warm then the bind is weak and the end result is a sausage with poor texture and mouth feel.

Now is when “binders” come in. When used they will save a sausage that was processed in a sub standard way, well, up to a point. They will add extra protein or a gel to help hold everything together even if the fat was just a little warm. These proteins or gel help to bind the fat to the meat, increasing the texture of the sausage, kind of a crutch if you will. Follow proper procedure and no kind of “binder” is strictly necessary. All that said, in some sausages I find the gel from potato starch a nice texture addition, it’s subtle but it’s nice just the same, I have almost no use for milk powder.

 

[KBFlyer]

Maybe going off topic but is there a tutorial for sharpening grinder blades some where?