Jeff's Rub was a miss, what next?

[bauchjw]

I like Memphis dust and use it a lot, but I also like Jeffs rub so…..
Here is a historic Memphis dry rub I got from “Smoke Lore” it’s the Vergos recipe, they’re credited with creating the Memphis style in this book. It’s for bulk, I haven’t used it yet ;
.5 cup paprika
.25 cup chili powder
..25 cup gran garlic
3Tblspn black pepper
3Tblspn Jo’s her salt
1 tablspn whole mustard seed
1 tablspn whole celery seed
1 tablspn crushed celery seed
1 tablspn dried oregano
1 tablspn dry thyme
1 tablspn whole all spice berry
1 tablspn ground all spice
1 tablespoon whole coriander
1 tablespoon ground coriander

 

[Inscrutable]

As Fueling Around and Bearcarver have said, virtually all commercial rubs and recipes are WAY too salt-forward for me. And as Fueling Around and smoking al said, it’s easy to overpower ribs.
I go light with any rubs, let the pork shine through, and season or sauce as desired after.

 

[Lonzinomaker]

I like the Memphis dust recipe from Amazing Ribs, mostly because it doesn't have salt in it. You add salt to your liking after putting the rub on.
And I use smoked paprika instead of plain paprika.

 

[bill ace 350]

for pork, try some ground caraway seed in whatever rub you use.

Adds a distinct, pleasant flavor in my opinion.

 

[tallbm]

Wow! Thanks for the welcome and all the responses. Forgive me if I try a bit to summarize, since many responses seem to group together...

I definitely want to experiment with tweaking a rub to my family's taste. The problem I faced was that Jeff's rub was so far removed from their their preferences that it didn't feel like a place where it was just a question of what to add or subtract. Its hard to riff on a song you didn't much like in the first place, I'd rather start with a new piece of music. Hence the search for a new starting point.

I don't think we object to paprika in general, the extended family pulled pork recipe (unsmoked, don't yell at me! ) is well-loved and has the paprika, etc. flavors I associate with "southern" vs "Texas" BBQ. I had considered using that recipe's spices as a rub, but decided instead to explore the collective wisdom first (hence the attempt with Jeff's).

I take the SP, SPG, and SPOG recommendations seriously, and already use it in other contexts (beef grilling vs smoking). For pork I was looking for something more, and my wife does like restaurant ribs that have the brown sugar notes. That said, I take the point that I should try it simple sometimes too.

Beyond that I see a recommendation for "Memphis" rub, does anyone have a particular reference? A search produces many results, these seem plausible:

• https://heygrillhey.com/memphis-dry-rub/: This one seems to have a some distance from Jeff's in the paprika/salt ratios and a lot less sugar base.
• https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes-spice-rubs-and-pastes-meatheads-memphis-dust-rub-recipe/: Opposite direction, lot more sugar, and since the salt is measured separately by weight, less danger of over/under salting.

Thanks again for all the feedback...

Yep, looks like you are getting the idea.


I think once you try the SP, SPG, SPOG route you can add Paprika to your liking for your pork or leave it out. If you want Mexican/Tex-Mex you can add chili powder and a little but if ground cumin.
You want steak and chop flavor you add a little bit of cayenne pepper for flavor but not heat.
You want some Asian'ish flavor you add some ginger and sub the "S" for Soysauce and use a little toasted sesame seed oil.
Etc, etc,. Basically something like an SPOG is a base where adding a few other things takes it to a different direction for amazing flavor. Very simple :)

 

[TulsaJeff]

A AxxelH I'm sorry you didn't care for the original rub recipe and I'll be issuing a refund on that order. I don't hear complaints too often but in my opinion, you shouldn't have to pay for something you don't like

The original rub is low on salt on purpose. I don't like a lot of salt personally and it seems like most of what you buy in the store is based entirely on salt. Not a good thing.

I always recommend adding the rub and then more salt to taste if it's needed. Everyone's taste is different and there's a LOT of people on here that use my rub tweaked to their own liking.

I love using paprika for color and for proper dispersion of the other ingredients. You can certainly leave it out as long as you realize that it messes with the ratios and you'll have to do some tweaking afterward.

Lots of great advice on this thread!

Making your own rub is the best thing you can ever do.. play around with flavors you like, keep good notes and don't be afraid to try new things along the way.

Let me know if I can be of further help and I'll get that refund going right away!

I appreciate you giving it a try.

 

[SmokinEdge]

A AxxelH I'm sorry you didn't care for the original rub recipe and I'll be issuing a refund on that order. I don't hear complaints too often but in my opinion, you shouldn't have to pay for something you don't like

The original rub is low on salt on purpose. I don't like a lot of salt personally and it seems like most of what you buy in the store is based entirely on salt. Not a good thing.

I always recommend adding the rub and then more salt to taste if it's needed. Everyone's taste is different and there's a LOT of people on here that use my rub tweaked to their own liking.

I love using paprika for color and for proper dispersion of the other ingredients. You can certainly leave it out as long as you realize that it messes with the ratios and you'll have to do some tweaking afterward.

Lots of great advice on this thread!

Making your own rub is the best thing you can ever do.. play around with flavors you like, keep good notes and don't be afraid to try new things along the way.

Let me know if I can be of further help and I'll get that refund going right away!

I appreciate you giving it a try.

That there is straight forward Integrity, and honesty. Call’em like I see ‘em, but that’s good right there.

 

[AxxelH]

A AxxelH I'm sorry you didn't care for the original rub recipe and I'll be issuing a refund on that order. I don't hear complaints too often but in my opinion, you shouldn't have to pay for something you don't like

That's very kind of you. I didn't feel like I needed to request a refund as I've spent enough time lurking the forum to want to support it as an information source, even if the specific purchase wasn't the right fit.

That said, since I see you've issued the refund already, I won't argue and appreciate your integrity around the guarantee.

The original rub is low on salt on purpose. I don't like a lot of salt personally and it seems like most of what you buy in the store is based entirely on salt. Not a good thing.

I definitely agree there's a lot of salt in the commercial rubs, which makes them a bad value at purchase price if nothing else. Its why I wanted to try some alternatives.

I always recommend adding the rub and then more salt to taste if it's needed. Everyone's taste is different and there's a LOT of people on here that use my rub tweaked to their own liking.

I love using paprika for color and for proper dispersion of the other ingredients. You can certainly leave it out as long as you realize that it messes with the ratios and you'll have to do some tweaking afterward.

I'll use this as a jumping off point to report a later success. Yesterday's ribs were done with a hodgepodge of the two "Memphis" rubs I linked. In particular I used the 1:1 salt:paprika ratio and lowered sugar from the first example, and some of the savory notes (rosemary, oregano, etc) from both.

While my technique was off this time (little dry), the rib's flavor was well liked, and is a good place to start experimenting. We were at the place where my Texas-bred palate thought it was almost too salty and my spouse (from "Salt City" Syracuse) would have liked it saltier, but didn't actually add salt. Based on prior experience with grilled foods, this is probably the sweet spot to back down the salt slightly and start adding other favors. In particular I can turn up the heat a bit (no cayenne in those rubs) and maybe the sweet I see in so many of the rubs.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback. What I think I've learned is that we like a much lighter hand with the paprika, and while commercial rubs are perhaps too salty, its possible for us to over-correct in the other direction (given our particular taste/health concerns).

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[TNJAKE]

That's very kind of you. I didn't feel like I needed to request a refund as I've spent enough time lurking the forum to want to support it as an information source, even if the specific purchase wasn't the right fit.

That said, since I see you've issued the refund already, I won't argue and appreciate your integrity around the guarantee.



I definitely agree there's a lot of salt in the commercial rubs, which makes them a bad value at purchase price if nothing else. Its why I wanted to try some alternatives.



I'll use this as a jumping off point to report a later success. Yesterday's ribs were done with a hodgepodge of the two "Memphis" rubs I linked. In particular I used the 1:1 salt:paprika ratio and lowered sugar from the first example, and some of the savory notes (rosemary, oregano, etc) from both.

While my technique was off this time (little dry), the rib's flavor was well liked, and is a good place to start experimenting. We were at the place where my Texas-bred palate thought it was almost too salty and my spouse (from "Salt City" Syracuse) would have liked it saltier, but didn't actually add salt. Based on prior experience with grilled foods, this is probably the sweet spot to back down the salt slightly and start adding other favors. In particular I can turn up the heat a bit (no cayenne in those rubs) and maybe the sweet I see in so many of the rubs.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback. What I think I've learned is that we like a much lighter hand with the paprika, and while commercial rubs are perhaps too salty, its possible for us to over-correct in the other direction (given our particular taste/health concerns).

Thanks again for all the advice!

You got any rib pics, techniques? All I've seen is critique. We like pics around here as well as people willing to share their methods and recipes

 

[Fueling Around]

I lurked for a couple years before signing up.
I don't remember how long since signing up that I purchased a Premier Membership.
Money well spent.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Same here! I was a lurker for a while but not long after joining was glad to pay and support this forum! For all I have learned it's a cheap education! Now if I could just learn how to make a peach dump cake! . I'm sorry TulsaJeff I just had to lol! But a heck of a great thing you did!

Here's your rib pic TNJAKE hot and fast on the kettle , no wrap, just let it ride...but with Jeff's rub, cuz we really like it. But everyone's tastes are different which has been shown here. All about figuring out what you prefer.

Ryan

 

[AxxelH]

You got any rib pics, techniques? All I've seen is critique. We like pics around here as well as people willing to share their methods and recipes

Sorry, didn't take a picture, maybe next time. As for methods, I doubt I have anything not well-known anyone here. Again, I'm a novice who's just moving on from commercial rubs and tritip. The one comment I think I can safely make is that the oregano and rosemary from the two memphis rubs I linked before were a surprising extra and did come through. Neither are something that would have occurred to me to add on my own.

 

[tallbm]

Sorry, didn't take a picture, maybe next time. As for methods, I doubt I have anything not well-known anyone here. Again, I'm a novice who's just moving on from commercial rubs and tritip. The one comment I think I can safely make is that the oregano and rosemary from the two memphis rubs I linked before were a surprising extra and did come through. Neither are something that would have occurred to me to add on my own.

Have you read or been told about SmokinAl's rib cooking technique??
Basically he puts a temp probe in the ribs and lets it go to 195F and they should be bite off the bone tender. You can stab with a toothpic to verify since probe placement isn't always a sure thing.

I use his technique with a tweak to go 198F IT of the meat and it's perfection for me and the tenderness level I like.

No more 3-2-1, 2-2-1, etc. techniques that can still be off. Simply hit a temp, check for tenderness, pull if/when done! :)

See SmokinAl 's post here. Enjoy!

PERFECT RIBS EVERY TIME! This really works!

Many of you who knew me in the past know that I have been tinkering with my rib recipe for years. This comes from the fact that everybody around here likes fall off the bone ribs except me. I like tender juicy ribs, but what I don't like is taking a bite & having the bone slip out & a big chunk...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[daveomak]

A AxxelH I'm sorry you didn't care for the original rub recipe and I'll be issuing a refund on that order. I don't hear complaints too often but in my opinion, you shouldn't have to pay for something you don't like

I've worked with TulsaJeff on an occasion or so...
He's willing to discuss topics... Both sides...
Mutual understanding of the points at hand...
Each side of the topic was allowed to be aired... fairly... and with an adult presentation... On the phone and on the keyboard...
I always have enjoyed speaking with him...
Even when I have been incorrect in the assumptions I've made, from not having all the facts...
I have always ended our conversations knowing we were friends...
He is an upstanding man and a real straight shooter...
He deserves the Golden Driller trophy... He's a winner...
We are lucky to have landed on his forum...

Dave

 

[flatbroke]

Sorry, didn't take a picture, maybe next time. As for methods, I doubt I have anything not well-known anyone here. Again, I'm a novice who's just moving on from commercial rubs and tritip. The one comment I think I can safely make is that the oregano and rosemary from the two memphis rubs I linked before were a surprising extra and did come through. Neither are something that would have occurred to me to add on my own.

Don’t sweat the pictures. Life happens and sometimes circumstances don’t allow time for photos. Some people work and have limited time to cook and others don’t work and live on this site all day. That’s what is nice about the forum. Wide variety of experiences and techniques. Some are very opinionated, Don’t feel pressured, share what you can or feel like. Everyone tastes preferences are different, some people are limited by allergies or medical conditions. You will find something that works for you and yours. Welcome to the forum. I know you are not making any attacks but want to say while I have not met him in person, Tulsa has been a stand up guy during my various interactions with him.

 

[AxxelH]

No more 3-2-1, 2-2-1, etc. techniques that can still be off. Simply hit a temp, check for tenderness, pull if/when done! :)

Thanks for the suggestion. I have been doing 3-2-1 variations for the most part (one exception). I've saved this link for the next attempt.

 

[zwiller]

I think once you try the SP, SPG, SPOG route you can add Paprika to your liking for your pork or leave it out. If you want Mexican/Tex-Mex you can add chili powder and a little but if ground cumin.
You want steak and chop flavor you add a little bit of cayenne pepper for flavor but not heat.
You want some Asian'ish flavor you add some ginger and sub the "S" for Soysauce and use a little toasted sesame seed oil.
Etc, etc,. Basically something like an SPOG is a base where adding a few other things takes it to a different direction for amazing flavor. Very simple :)

This pretty much spot info to me! That being said, keep in mind a rub only does so much and only a part of the big picture. IE I apply a rub for ribs a minimum of 24hrs in advance. Applying immediately does not cut it for me. Also, on a 8lb pork butt a rub does very little. I inject and no rub at all. Back onto ribs... I tried lots of stuff for my ribs and was not happy UNTIL I ended up saucing and grilling them after smoked. OMG. Night and day difference. Real easy to overlook in his writeup SmokinAl but he does it too. I actually smoke a few days in advance and grill later. Jeff's sauce is KILLER for ribs. Total pro grade. A couple layers of it added while grilling is rib magic for me IMO. I tweak it too but not much. (apple jelly for the molasses, I'm in Ohio LOL)

 

[Fraser]

You'd be surprised how quickly you can get used to Salt Reduction

Agree totally. I tend toward HBP and am allergic to most bp meds. Doc sez cut down on salt (main ingredient to most comm rubs), ergo started making my own rubs.

Back to your question, keep in mind your whole process and presentation, as well as rub flavor profile. What protein? Grilling/smoking/braising? Will you be brining (wet or dry)? Spritzing/mopping?Wrapped? Cooking low-and-slow or hot-and-fast? Looking for no, amber or mahogany bark? Will your presentation be seasoned/sauced/buttered? Sometimes technique and timing affect the rub constituents.
For example, if brining you’ll likely want a rub with little or no salt. If hot-and-fast, leave out the sugars. Deep mahogany? Add a scoche (technical measurement unit here in Texas) of Hungarian paprika.
When to add ingredients also affects your profile; adding sugars later in the cook via mops/spritz/braises tends toward a sweeter product. Spicy, tangy toward savory.
Your process and presentation will likely drive your rub profile. As others have said, start simple, keep notes and experiment. Nothing wrong with POGP and smoke.