Why low and slow for a roast? I like hot and fast....

[mountainhawg]

First off I know there is no Q view, I should have done it and it would have explained a lot. BUT, before joining SMF I had brined and Q'd many a butt and shoulder (1-2 a month for decades). I was normally done Qing a 4-5 pound piece of meat in 6 hours. 

Yesterday, I had a 6+ pound shoulder. I started it at 7:30 AM and was completed with an IT of 182 (for slicing) at 3:00 PM, 7.5 hours out. I smoked it for 3.5 hours, had a great 1/2-3/4" apple/oak smoke ring (so bright the wife thought it was blood, LOL), a great dark mahogany bark (bit black on the bottom), super juicy, and the roast was extremely tender. I had a pan with water under the roast and misted frequently after the smoke part was complete. Cook temperature averaged about 300-325+. 

I see these posts for these overnight, 12+, 20+ hour smokes with people cooking butts and shoulders at 225 degrees. I just have not been able to understand what can be gained from these low and slow cooking adventures with pork roasts/butts. 

I know this may be a controversial subject, but what am I missing or over looking?

Thanks,

Gil

 

[fpnmf]

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• fpnmf
• Jan 26, 2013

 

[mountainhawg]

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• fpnmf
• Jan 26, 2013

Yes, I realize that, guilty as charged! I should have taken some shots yesterday as I cooked the shoulder. After a fantastic Q dinner was when I started considering the questions I posted. Plus I was watching NASCAR and not thinking photography at the time. 

 

[badmoont2]

I've been experimenting with high temp brisket and have gotten good results. I'm still fine tuning it but the result has always been tasty and juicy. The last one I did weighed about12 lbs. after trimming and finished in 6 hrs. I've never done one any other way so I have nothing to compare my results to, but I think people win competitions doing it hot and fast. Doing one in this shorter time means I make brisket more often so if there is a trade off vs a traditional low and slow, it's one I'm willing to make .

 

[cliffcarter]

I agree with you 100%, I can see no advantage in cooking a pork butt for 12+ hours when they can be done in 6 to 8 hrs. I will never do another "overnighter", it's just not nessecary.

Pork picnic BBQ for the Superbowl, 6.5 lbs done in 6.5 hours-

DSC03268.JPG

• cliffcarter
• Mar 18, 2013

 

[timberjet]

You guys should head on over to A Mc Donalds for some Mc. Ribs. They are real fast.

 

[jarjarchef]

I usually do my smokes at 250-275....... Great flavor and results.........usually at 1hr per pound total cook and rest........... Not too hot, but faster..........

 

[mountainhawg]

You guys should head on over to A Mc Donalds for some Mc. Ribs. They are real fast.

Speaking of ribs, I do baby backs in an hour and a half which includes only 1/2 hour of smoke.  A full rack may may take me two hours. We like smoke but not too much, but I cook them hot also. To each their own, that's all.

MacRibs are good for a quick sammy when on the road, but not at all like the real deal, plus they need a better sauce with heat.

 

[goinforbroke]

I think people naturally think if some is good, then more is better.   so... if 8 hours is good, 16 must be better.  Who doesn't want elite bbq?!?

the thing is though, if you stuck a butt in an oven for 6 hours at 275.. it would be very tender.   But (pun intended).. its all about the bark. 

I prefer to do pork at a higher temp than is thought ideal..  got better things to do than tend firebox.  It's all good to me.  It's just meat.

 

[mountainhawg]

I think people naturally think if some is good, then more is better.   so... if 8 hours is good, 16 must be better.  Who doesn't want elite bbq?!?

the thing is though, if you stuck a butt in an oven for 6 hours at 275.. it would be very tender.   But (pun intended).. its all about the bark. 

I prefer to do pork at a higher temp than is thought ideal..  got better things to do than tend firebox.  It's all good to me.  It's just meat.

I enjoy the heck out of BBQ-ing on the grill but after 8 hours I'm burnt out literally. Perhaps the bark would extend deeper after X amount of hours, but mine was sufficient for us. As I stated, the roast was for slicing. We use bark for flavoring gravy for mashed potatoes and the meat plus we snack on it pre dinner. Use home made Q sauce after that for sliced Q sandwiches w/ slaw and sauce. 

Yup, it's just meat.

 

[cliffcarter]

You guys should head on over to A Mc Donalds for some Mc. Ribs. They are real fast.

My ribs get cooked between 240°-260°, no McAnything involved. Big cuts get cooked Hot and Fast because I see no value in losing sleep, having a fire go out while I slept and worrying about if the meat will be safe to eat or cooking anything at 225° for 12 hours or more. Just because I don't cook at 225° doesn't mean I'm not cooking damn good barbeque

 

[tomolu5]

I am by no means an expert, but it would seem to me that if there was any sugar in your rub, It would burn above a certain temp????? That said, I am in no way afraid to jump the temp up a little if a stall just wont quit, but I really dont see myself cranking her up past 250 unless my current research into this whole wet bulb temperature thing turns up something new? and even then I dont know if I would do it without a PID running off the wet bulb. I feel( I said feel, not know) that breaking the fats down slower bastes the meat from the inside, and will provide for a naturally juicier end product. I am kind of a minimalist when it comes to sauces(unless you count dumping my steak juice on my fries!). just my two cents on it

thanks

tom

 

[cliffcarter]

I am by no means an expert, but it would seem to me that if there was any sugar in your rub, It would burn above a certain temp????? That said, I am in no way afraid to jump the temp up a little if a stall just wont quit, but I really dont see myself cranking her up past 250 unless my current research into this whole wet bulb temperature thing turns up something new? and even then I dont know if I would do it without a PID running off the wet bulb. I feel( I said feel, not know) that breaking the fats down slower bastes the meat from the inside, and will provide for a naturally juicier end product. I am kind of a minimalist when it comes to sauces(unless you count dumping my steak juice on my fries!). just my two cents on it

thanks

tom

Take a look at the bark on the picnic shoulder I posted, IMHO it always looks like that and tastes great. Just FYI I worry less about cooking at temp wet bulb or otherwise. I simply plan on a range of acceptable cooking temps(290°-335° for butts) and make vent adjustments as needed. Fats render at high temps, too, moistness is not a problem with Hot and Fast. 

 

[mountainhawg]

I am by no means an expert, but it would seem to me that if there was any sugar in your rub, It would burn above a certain temp????? That said, I am in no way afraid to jump the temp up a little if a stall just wont quit, but I really dont see myself cranking her up past 250 unless my current research into this whole wet bulb temperature thing turns up something new? and even then I dont know if I would do it without a PID running off the wet bulb. I feel( I said feel, not know) that breaking the fats down slower bastes the meat from the inside, and will provide for a naturally juicier end product. I am kind of a minimalist when it comes to sauces(unless you count dumping my steak juice on my fries!). just my two cents on it

thanks

tom

I use brown and raw sugars in my rubs which I apply thickly and while they get dark it's no darker, if not less so, than others I've seen pictures of posted here that were cooked low and slow. I try not too get the coals too close to the meat and like I stated I mist frequently. I also cook the meat with the cap on and let the juices do the basting. The moisture from a pan of water under the roast helps also. I have never removed a cap from a shoulder or butt, I count them to keep the meat moist. I feel pork shoulder and butt has lots of internal fat and it would be hard to dry them out,

just my opinion.

While the wet-bulb deal is interesting and intriguing and possibly/probably explains the stall, I just cook through it. Yes, even at a high temp, I do run into the stall, but don't stay there too long. I got stuck at 170 yesterday and kicked up the heat by adding lump and raised the fire grate to get through it, and then quite quickly got to my 182.   

 

[badmoont2]

 I feel pork shoulder and butt has lots of internal fat and it would be hard to dry them out,
 

I think that's why all these different methods work on butts, it's a very forgiving cut of meat.

 

[mountainhawg]

I think that's why all these different methods work on butts, it's a very forgiving cut of meat.

I believe you are correct. Would think awhile on how I would cook a beef roast, different animal there, literally.  

 

[fpnmf]

I believe you are correct. Would think awhile on how I would cook a beef roast, different animal there, literally.  

Here's how to do a beef roast!!

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137805/sirloin-tip-roast

    Craig

 

[mountainhawg]

Here's how to do a beef roast!!

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137805/sirloin-tip-roast

    Craig

Yup! that looks really nice and would jump right on that. Still, 225? I do honestly believe there are more than one way to skin the proverbial cat, or cow in this instance. I can see going slow to get the internal up some but then I'd probably put the heat to it. I believe it has been well over 30-35 years since I did a beef roast on the grill.

Problem is, wife does not like pink/red beef, I love medium rare. Have to give her the outside cuts and I take internal. Otherwise, beef and venison roasts end up in the crock pot

  After 40 years of marriage, I know she won't change her ways. 

 

[pgsmoker64]

Guys...bottom line, Q is an art best left to the artist!  If you like it hot and fast, go for it....if you like low and slow, go for it.

We don't try to force our methods on anyone here at SMF we simply provide technical information to help everyone make the best smoked meat possible.

So, like rubs, smoking woods, charcoals, marinades, and smoking temps, it's all a matter of personal preference!  The whole thing is about enjoying the experience, do it the way you want and as long as the final product turns out delicious that is all that matters!!!!

So let's just enjoy the smoke and the meat!

Bill

 

[mountainhawg]

Guys...bottom line, Q is an art best left to the artist!  If you like it hot and fast, go for it....if you like low and slow, go for it.

We don't try to force our methods on anyone here at SMF we simply provide technical information to help everyone make the best smoked meat possible.

So, like rubs, smoking woods, charcoals, marinades, and smoking temps, it's all a matter of personal preference!  The whole thing is about enjoying the experience, do it the way you want and as long as the final product turns out delicious that is all that matters!!!!

So let's just enjoy the smoke and the meat!

Bill

I'll agree with that!