Venison chorizo done to 40% weight loss

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IDS, My chorizo recipe called for 65 grams of salt for 5 pounds of meat,I had 4 pounds and one pound fat , I used 40 grams so more then half . I have used 65 grams in the past and the product was way too salty. I also checked a venison salami recipe Umai posted requiring only 40 grams for 5 pounds. I have gone with the 40 grams on my last 4 batches and probably will continue to do so. Disclaimer to all sausage folks ,don't follow my recipe ! :emoji_slight_smile:
 
IDS, My chorizo recipe called for 65 grams of salt for 5 pounds of meat,I had 4 pounds and one pound fat , I used 40 grams so more then half . I have used 65 grams in the past and the product was way too salty. I also checked a venison salami recipe Umai posted requiring only 40 grams for 5 pounds. I have gone with the 40 grams on my last 4 batches and probably will continue to do so. Disclaimer to all sausage folks ,don't follow my recipe ! :emoji_slight_smile:
What indaswamp indaswamp posted is correct for salami safety. 2.5% is the minimum and 3% is widely used.
That said, the salt you are using, along with the cure salt puts you all over a 2% salt. Now then, with the Umaidry process being under refrigeration temperature the whole time except for the fermentation period, my feeling is that you are fine. You could use a faster culture like LHP or F-RM 52 and apply dextrose at 0.5%. This will drop your ph below 5.3 in about 10 hours at 95*F. That’s fast enough to microbiology stable the salami. Otherwise because of refrigeration you are good to go.
 
What indaswamp indaswamp posted is correct for salami safety. 2.5% is the minimum and 3% is widely used.
That said, the salt you are using, along with the cure salt puts you all over a 2% salt. Now then, with the Umaidry process being under refrigeration temperature the whole time except for the fermentation period, my feeling is that you are fine. You could use a faster culture like LHP or F-RM 52 and apply dextrose at 0.5%. This will drop your ph below 5.3 in about 10 hours at 95*F. That’s fast enough to microbiology stable the salami. Otherwise because of refrigeration you are good to go.
A faster method to lower pH would be to add 5g/kg. GLD or even faster....add 1.67g/kg. citric acid (acts 3 times faster than GDL at lowering pH). Those dosages would be enough to drop the pH to below 5.3 very quickly. If I were to use lower than 2.5% salt for a salami-that is what I would do. You could still add a gram or two of dextrose and the culture will still grow, but the immediate pH drop will go a long way towards safety during fermentation when the bad bacteria have the greatest chance of growing the fastest because of the high Aw. But also remember that lower salt slows drying, so the bad bacteria will have more water to work with for a longer period of time.
 
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A faster method to lower pH would be to add 5g/kg. GLD or even faster....add 1.67g/kg. citric acid (acts 3 times faster than GDL at lowering pH). Those dosages would be enough to drop the pH to below 5.3 very quickly. If I were to use lower than 2.5% salt for a salami-that is what I would do. You could still add a gram or two of dextrose and the culture will still grow, but the immediate pH drop will go a long way towards safety during fermentation when the bad bacteria have the greatest chance of growing the fastest because of the high Aw. But also remember that lower salt slows drying, so the bad bacteria will have more water to work with for a longer period of time.
I agree with you, but the flavor of the recipe would be way off. Your talking summer sausage tang. Umai does not give the deep flavors of real deal salami, but it’s not summer sausage either. The process is under refrigeration except for fermentation, which is key, but nitrite is involved and 2% salt along with lactic acid. It’s not that dangerous given that we have quality meats and not a full scale commercial operation. I don’t feel the danger is that high in modern times. This isn’t 1900. Heck when most of the processes were established it was done so without refrigeration from slaughter to final product other than ambient temps. We have everything in place for food safety, even an extra in the form of refrigeration, so I just don’t see the concern. He ferments for 24 hours, creating lactic acid and then goes into a presumed 37* refrigerator. With salt, nitrite and lactic acid starting the drying stage I don’t see the problem. It’s not the same as in a 53* chamber .

How do you feel about Umai products suggesting the use of cure #2 under refrigeration temperature?
 
I was looking into the umai products earlier this evening. Maybe crazymoon crazymoon has urged me to step out of my comfort zone and try something new!
But...

As someone that is not a newbie, and totally understand about keeping everything food safe on this site. Some of you are so knowledgeable on the curing side it's too much! Don't take this the wrong way but if you get too in depth and technical you could just as well be talking in Greek. We have to be able to understand and most importantly comprehend what you are saying.

Ryan
 
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How do you feel about Umai products suggesting the use of cure #2 under refrigeration temperature?
The flavor forming and nitrate reducing staphylococcus bacteria will still work under refrigeration temps, albeit at a much slower pace. The nitrate reserve will last longer. If using less salt, this is a benefit since Aw will stay higher for longer.
 
As someone that is not a newbie, and totally understand about keeping everything food safe on this site. Some of you are so knowledgeable on the curing side it's too much! Don't take this the wrong way but if you get too in depth and technical you could just as well be talking in Greek. We have to be able to understand and most importantly comprehend what you are saying.
If there is anything that I have typed you do not understand, please ask me specifically and I will explain it to the best of my ability. I am glad you are looking to expand your skill set and want to learn. Be glad to help anyone that wants to learn....
 
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If there is anything that I have typed you do not understand, please ask me specifically and I will explain it to the best of my ability. I am glad you are looking to expand your skill set and want to learn. Be glad to help anyone that wants to learn....
And that right there, folks is what makes this place so great. Those who really knowing their stuff willing to take their time to share what they know and explain it in a way a noob can understand.
 
Will do! Thanks
And that right there, folks is what makes this place so great. Those who really knowing their stuff willing to take their time to share what they know and explain it in a way a noob can understand.
I'm just trying to help people do it safely...not trying to berate anyone with my responses on this thread. I hope That is clear in my posts.
 
I'm just trying to help people do it safely...not trying to berate anyone with my responses on this thread. I hope That is clear in my posts.
Absolutely, inda. I was saying that it is a great resource for us to have access to guys like you who really know the nuts and bolts of all this willing to help someone new to it out.
 
Absolutely, inda. I was saying that it is a great resource for us to have access to guys like you who really know the nuts and bolts of all this willing to help someone new to it out.
Ill be the first to admit I do not know it all when it comes to dry curing meats. It is such a huge topic....but I know how to do it safely. The safety hurdles are what allow us to make fermented sausages safely, and salt is one of the most important elements in the first 24 hours of the life of a salami. That is when the water activity is at it's highest, before the dripping stage and before final acid drop occurs.
 
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So, I found the recipe on Umai dry for venison salami. It is a Len Poli recipe. And yep, on the umai dry site is says 35 g. of salt.
https://drybagsteak.com/homemade-venison-salami/

I cross referenced that to Len's site and the correct amount is 48 grams of salt (2%).
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm#DRY
And when you add the 6 grams (0.25%) cure #2; The total salt is 2.25%. Whoever transcribed the recipe for umai dry typed the amount for the next line down-powdered milk @ 35grams. Len also likes to use an extra fast culture...LHP which has both pediococcus strains for accelerated pH drop.
Typos happen...I get that. But if new people don't know any better, they won't see the hazard of not enough salt. I would triple check every recipe posted by umai if I used them......

2.25% salt with extra fast LHP...and the cold refrigerator to mature.....probably OK.
 
I was looking into the umai products earlier this evening. Maybe crazymoon crazymoon has urged me to step out of my comfort zone and try something new!
But...

As someone that is not a newbie, and totally understand about keeping everything food safe on this site. Some of you are so knowledgeable on the curing side it's too much! Don't take this the wrong way but if you get too in depth and technical you could just as well be talking in Greek. We have to be able to understand and most importantly comprehend what you are saying.

Ryan
BH, Umai Is very simple, just follow what their instructions say and you will be enjoying a fine product. You do need to buy cure #2 and a starter culture(expensive) if you use their basic spice package or make your own seasoning mix. I believe they do sell a complete spice kit with all the ingredients included.
 
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