Substitutions questions / Meat Snack Help

[Leohat]

I want to make some meat stick type sausages but the wife doesn't want me ordering stuff from Amazon so I'm limited to what I can get at the local MegaMart. My sister in law loves the Tillamook brand snack sticks but they are expensive. If I can convince my wife and SiL that I can make snacks that are just as good then I can get the stuff I really need/want.

I need help with finding substitutions for:

Fermento - I've read somewhere that powdered buttermilk works but it's not a 1 to 1 substitution. So does this work? What is the ratio? If it don't work what does?

Encapsulated Citric Acid - I think I read that a product called "Fruit Fresh" works a substitution. Does this work?

Casings- I might be able to get some casings at Bi-Mart but I need a sub just in case the wife objects.

I have some Pink Salt and some milk powder left over from some other stuff I made.

I have a standard kitchen oven, a NESCO dehydrator, jerky gun and a medium BGE at my disposal, but i have trouble keeping the BGE much below 250*.

I also can't find the grinder/stuffer plates for my Kitchen Aid so meat will need to be pre ground stuff or processed in a food processor or both.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Sako buttermilk powder is the same as fermento and 1/2 the price. Use it at the same rate.
ECA is Encapsulated Citric Acid. Fruit fresh has CA and Ascorbic acid. IMHO I would not use it in the sticks
Casing you can use sheep or collagen casings size 18-21mm
Pink salt? Cure #1 (not himalayan salt)
The BGA is not very good for low temps you need for sticks 130-170. If you have an electric oven most go down to 170* You can use a dehydrator but it takes forever.... Always use cure #1 even in dehydrator
Nothing at all wrong with store bought 80/20 ground beef. Dont buy the walmart chub that you can see the meat. Get the package with the clear wrap. Stay away from the food processor, you will just heat the meat and smear the fat, unless you use lots of ice.

GL

 

[Leohat]

First, thank you for the reply

The pink salt is cure #1. I bought it to make sausage before I moved from Salt Lake. (Shout out to Snyder's Brother meats)

I can definitely get casings at bi-mart

I think I can jury rig a hot plate to run at 170ish.

Doing some more research, it appears that eca is stuff ( I don't know what kind of stuff that dissolves slowly ). I wonder if I could mix something in gelatin, let the gelatin set then mix it in

Sako buttermilk powder is the same as fermento and 1/2 the price. Use it at the same rate.
ECA is Encapsulated Citric Acid. Fruit fresh has CA and Ascorbic acid. IMHO I would not use it in the sticks
Casing you can use sheep or collagen casings size 18-21mm
Pink salt? Cure #1 (not himalayan salt)
The BGA is not very good for low temps you need for sticks 130-170. If you have an electric oven most go down to 170* You can use a dehydrator but it takes forever.... Always use cure #1 even in dehydrator
Nothing at all wrong with store bought 80/20 ground beef. Dont buy the walmart chub that you can see the meat. Get the package with the clear wrap. Stay away from the food processor, you will just heat the meat and smear the fat, unless you use lots of ice.

GL

 

[Leohat]

I was doing more research and discovered that the main ingredient in extreme sour candies is encapsulated MALIC acid. Has anyone tried using crushed candies in snack sticks? I've heard that it is a huge no-no to add eca in before grinding because it breaks the encapsulation so this method may have a similar problem
Also what about using cream of tartar a.k.a tartaric acid? I've used tartar as a sour boost in lemon pies.

Expanding on previous idea, what about dissolving citric acid/fruit fresh in coconut or palm oil, which are solid at room temp but melt at a low temp? Melt the oil, mix in fruit fresh, let it resolidify, mix that in with the meat.
My thought processes is that coconut oil melts at pretty low temp while beef fat and pork fat melt at a much higher temp.
By my logic it should delay the reaction of the citric acid and the meat.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Gelatin will bind the meat, you may not get the tang if you mix any sort of CA with it. Add ECA after grinding. If you use any oils remember you are adding oil and could result in a fat-out.

Crushed candy?

Good Luck

 

[jimmyinsd]

I would try starting with a proven recipe and changing one thing at a time and definitely in small batches. some of what you are proposing is kind of out there and could result in something the dog wouldnt eat so you certainly wouldnt want to much invested until you have a proven recipe.

 

[Braz]

the wife doesn't want me ordering stuff from Amazon

Is your wife's problem specifically with Amazon or is any mail order off limits? There are other reputable sources such as sausagemaker.com and butcherpacker.com.

 

[TomKnollRFV]

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/unstuffed-smoked-beef-pepperoni-sticks-with-qview.95395/

This is the first snack stick thing I did. All you need to find is Morton's TenderQuick.

From here I started doing summer sausage..pepperoni..maple snack sticks..

 

[Leohat]

She doesn't me ordering ingredients on-line in general. She says that we won't be making large enough amounts to justify it.

Believe me, it's better not to pick this particular battle at this time.

Is your wife's problem specifically with Amazon or is any mail order off limits? There are other reputable sources such as sausagemaker.com and butcherpacker.com.

 

[Leohat]

I'm not sure that it rises to the level of proposal, it's more at the stupid person asking questions stage. /humor /snark

It will definitely be small batches of no more than a pound or two of meat at a time.

Unfortunately, we lost our 12 year old Toller to cancer just a couple of weeks ago, so I no longer have a cooking fail disposal unit/dish pre-cleaner.

I would try starting with a proven recipe and changing one thing at a time and definitely in small batches. some of what you are proposing is kind of out there and could result in something the dog wouldnt eat so you certainly wouldnt want to much invested until you have a proven recipe.

 

[Leohat]

I like that the recipe doesn't require special ingredients, I'll definitely be giving that a try

I have an AMNS but I can't keep it lit when I put it in the egg. I think that it is an air flow/oxygen problem, it seems to work fine sitting out in the open but when i put it in the Egg it goes out almost immediately. My current theory is that AMNS that I have was designed for a bigger egg. I'm working on building a venturi cold smoker and running the smoke into the egg as a smoke chamber. It's still very much a work in progress. I'm still working on convincing my wife that an MEZ would be worth the price.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/unstuffed-smoked-beef-pepperoni-sticks-with-qview.95395/

This is the first snack stick thing I did. All you need to find is Morton's TenderQuick.

From here I started doing summer sausage..pepperoni..maple snack sticks..

 

[chopsaw]

Is there a reason not to purchase a snack stick kit from a local store ? Might be your best bet to get started .

 

[gearloose]

Why limit yourself to only one or two pound recipes? You will spend more time making than eating and enjoying. Plus, unless you have an accurate digital gram scale, it is difficult to measure out the dry ingredients in quantities that small - especially the cure #1.

Several of the sausage making vendors ( LEM, Walton's, Sausage Maker, etc.) offer ingredients & casings in smaller home-use packs, so excess quantities of ingredients should not be an issue. Besides, once you find a good recipe and get the technique down, your problem will NOT be stale ingredients sitting around. ;)

Here's a tip for your oxygen-starved BGE & AMPS: Place a small 3-speed desktop fan where you can direct the airflow into the BGE air inlets.

 

[Leohat]

As far a bigger amounts go, I agree with you on that one; however the wife does not. Once I get it nailed down, then I can start to scale up. I've done 2-5 pound batches of sausages before and I learned that is about the max that my Kitchen Aid grinder/stuffer will handle. (still haven't found the grind plates)

I just got a fish tank air pump that I'm going to experiment with. I also have plans for making a cold smoker as well but I need to go to Lowes/HomeDepot to get some parts.

Updates: I got some casings and some buttermilk powder (and some bacon, so biscuits and gravy for breakfast tomorrow). My SiL is still buying the expensive store bought snack sticks however. I think that she did it on purpose.

 

[gearloose]

You should be able to justify it on cost alone. I can buy packages of 8-12 snack sticks produced by a local commercial processor for $8.99/lb. Mass-produced individually packaged brand name sticks will cost more. Homemade (assuming you buy whole pork butts & grind your own meat) will cost you $2.50-$3.00 a pound in 5-lb. batches. (Even less if you can find Boston Butts on sale) Get SWMBO hooked on the superior taste of homemade, then she should be willing to let you scale up to 5 lb. batches. Remember, they can be vac-bagged & frozen. If you can.t find grinder plates, you can buy replacements at very reasonable prices.

 

[Leohat]

I'm working on it. I'm hoping to convince her to let me get a vac-sealer (I want the ones they sell at Costco) and meat slicer (again like the ones at Costco) and a used fridge/freezer for extra space.

I have the replacement grinder plates on my amazon wishlist, just waiting for the money + permission

You should be able to justify it on cost alone. I can buy packages of 8-12 snack sticks produced by a local commercial processor for $8.99/lb. Mass-produced individually packaged brand name sticks will cost more. Homemade (assuming you buy whole pork butts & grind your own meat) will cost you $2.50-$3.00 a pound in 5-lb. batches. (Even less if you can find Boston Butts on sale) Get SWMBO hooked on the superior taste of homemade, then she should be willing to let you scale up to 5 lb. batches. Remember, they can be vac-bagged & frozen. If you can.t find grinder plates, you can buy replacements at very reasonable prices.

 

[TomKnollRFV]

If it is any help this is the foodsaver I use-

It doesn't have the built in bag roller function..but hey. I bag up 10 pounds of stuff a week on average, does a fine job of that.

 

[tallbm]

Hi there and welcome!

I think you can take a much simpler approach.
If you can get your hands on a jerky gun with the stick/tube nozzle then all you need is the pre-ground meat, seasoning, and cure #1.

You mix the meat, seasoning, and cure #1. Then you use the jerky gun to make sticks and set them on some form of pan/mat/rack that wont let them fall through the bars of your smoker or oven racks.

Using either your oven with the door open to the 1st stop, or your smoker, get them up to 165F internal temp (IT) and then turn down the heat and let them dehydrate to your desired snack stick consistency.

Eat them!

I take mine to jerky consistency but could easily pull them early if I hit the 165F IT first and then pull them earlier at snack stick consistency :)
This approach means no casings, no extra ingredients, no extra complication, and can be done simply with 1 pound batches to practice with so very little risk of major money/meat/time loss.

I hope this info helps :)