Propane/NG Conversion for Small Honda Electric Generator

[johnmeyer]

Has anyone converted their small Honda generator (EU2000i/EU2200i) to run on either propane or natural gas?

I have a 30-year old Coleman 4KW gen and it still works perfectly, but it is a PITA to set up and move around (my wheel conversion failed). We have frequent (3-5 times a year) power outages, and for the typical eight hour outage, I seldom take the 20 minutes to set it up (and 20 minutes to put it away), but that puts me on the edge of losing food.

I've been thinking of getting the marvelous Honda EU2200i which, despite it being half the power output of my old Coleman, has all sorts of advantages:

• 1/3 the fuel consumption (due to the inverter technology);
  
• Easily portable (can use it for powering tools beyond the reach of my extension cords);
  
• MUCH quieter (can't run my generator at night, and not get neighbor complaints).

The one additional thing that would make it perfect would be to not have it reliant on gasoline, in case we finally get "the big one" (earthquake) here in CA and have to spend a few weeks without electricity. Without electricity, most gas stations won't be able to pump gas. I keep about fifteen gallons of gasoline on hand, but that will only last 3-4 days with my current gen.

Hutch Mountain makes a conversion kit for the Honda portable generators. I've spoken with one of their engineers, and it seems like the perfect thing. You can flip a switch to use gasoline or either propane/NG although you have to make the propane or NG choice when you install the kit (the engineer says it only takes a few minutes to install the other jet).

So, anyone have any experience with converting gasoline generators to run on propane or NG?

 

[motocrash]

Interesting John,any idea how many Lbs/Hr LP one consumes?

 

[R Blum]

I just bought a new generator that runs on gas or propane. A 20lb tank like the one used for a bbq would last about 5-6 hours depending on load. Lots videos on YouTube to show you how to convert to propane. Some are simple but don't look too safe.

 

[johnmeyer]

Interesting John,any idea how many Lbs/Hr LP one consumes?

Since I don't have it, all I can do is quote what I've read on various sites. Most of the people in various forums claim much longer running times than Blum just posted, but he probably has a much larger generator than the 2KW Honda EU2200i that I'm thinking of getting. For the EU2200i or the earlier EU2000i, many people are reporting almost 24 hours on a typical BBQ-sized propane tank. The Internet acronym, YMMV, quite literally applies here, since it depends on the load, and whether you run it continuously. For most power outage situations, I typically don't run it for several hours at a time, since the food in the fridge will be quite happy for 2-3 hours without power.

BTW, when I talked to the engineer at Hutch Mountain, he said that propane fuel results in a slight (5%) reduction in maximum power output. For NG it is quite a bit higher, 15-20%. That would still leave enough "umph" to power my two fridges, which is an absolute requirement. And, if I need the full power, I just throw the gas/gasoline switch and use up my precious gasoline supply for a few hours.

Finally, there are quite a few companies that make this kit, and all of them get positive reviews. However, I am able to get more info about Hutch Mountain, and they are easy to talk to. Here is one piece of information that one user reported in another forum that makes me likely to buy the kit from them:

"They use a super cool regulator/valve (Garretson KN)that senses engine vacuum to control the propane flow. The input is a standard high pressure propane regulator and it has a huge diaphragm in it that opens a valve as the engine vacuum is increased. That allows the built in governor on the generator to throttle up and down and eco mode to function. Good product and the guy who anwsered the phone (Clayton?)know what he was talking about."​

 

[johnmeyer]

Propane contain approximately 26% less energy that the same quantity of gasoline. So if a generator consumes 1 gallon of gasoline per hour using propane you would need 1.26 gallon to do the same amount of work.

I forgot to address this in my previous post. I think what you say is absolutely true, but it doesn't mean that the generator will produce 26% less power because the conversion kit permits the throttle to open up more, and for the gas to be sucked in at a greater rate in order to compensate for having less energy density than gasoline. Of course the kit isn't perfect, so there is indeed some loss of maximum power. The Hutch Mountain engineer said it was 5% for propane, and I've seen nothing in other forums to contradict that.

BTW, this same thing comes up when people convert their grills from propane to NG. Natural gas has far less energy density, but if the conversion is done correctly, the grill can still produce almost the same BTU output by simply sucking in more NG gas than it would if it were operating on propane.

 

[chopsaw]

I'm sitting here trying to remember . I worked as a mechanic long time ago , and we converted a fleet of delivery trucks to propane . I don't remember it being a pita to do . Pretty simple , but these were GM V8's .
I know that's not much help , but I think it's an easy thing to do .

 

[johnmeyer]

I'm sitting here trying to remember . I worked as a mechanic long time ago , and we converted a fleet of delivery trucks to propane . I don't remember it being a pita to do . Pretty simple , but these were GM V8's .
I know that's not much help , but I think it's an easy thing to do .

There are countless videos on YouTube that show how the conversion is done. The reason there are so many videos is that these 2KW generators are extremely popular with the RV crowd, and most of them already carry propane for other uses.

From these videos the conversion looks extremely simple operation, pretty similar to removing the carb for cleaning, but without the hassle of actually having to deal with the carb itself. You do have to drill one hole to mount the connector for the propane/NG quick connect line. Most people claim it can be done in an hour.

Here is a link to a few videos showing how the conversion is done:

Honda Generator Propane (and NG) Conversion

 

[kit s]

Has anyone converted their small Honda generator (EU2000i/EU2200i) to run on either propane or natural gas?

I have a 30-year old Coleman 4KW gen and it still works perfectly, but it is a PITA to set up and move around (my wheel conversion failed). We have frequent (3-5 times a year) power outages, and for the typical eight hour outage, I seldom take the 20 minutes to set it up (and 20 minutes to put it away), but that puts me on the edge of losing food.

I've been thinking of getting the marvelous Honda EU2200i which, despite it being half the power output of my old Coleman, has all sorts of advantages:

• 1/3 the fuel consumption (due to the inverter technology);
  
• Easily portable (can use it for powering tools beyond the reach of my extension cords);
  
• MUCH quieter (can't run my generator at night, and not get neighbor complaints).

The one additional thing that would make it perfect would be to not have it reliant on gasoline, in case we finally get "the big one" (earthquake) here in CA and have to spend a few weeks without electricity. Without electricity, most gas stations won't be able to pump gas. I keep about fifteen gallons of gasoline on hand, but that will only last 3-4 days with my current gen.

Hutch Mountain makes a conversion kit for the Honda portable generators. I've spoken with one of their engineers, and it seems like the perfect thing. You can flip a switch to use gasoline or either propane/NG although you have to make the propane or NG choice when you install the kit (the engineer says it only takes a few minutes to install the other jet).

So, anyone have any experience with converting gasoline generators to run on propane or NG?

John
I just bought a new generator that runs on either or. Will use the gas only as back up to the propane.
It is a Duro Max 12000 watt which should run all....well not a/c included. Had an Onon 4000 watt that I was going to convert. Neighbor bought it and plans on doing that.
Paid $2300 for the Duro plus 200 something for freight.
Already had by pass switch (trans fer switch) wired into electric system so now all I do is set up generator plug in into my switch flip the lever and away it goes. PG&E side is disconnected from my system and I am good to go. Two reason for this ...one don't want to energize any lines that may back feed into main lines of the electric grid and kill somebody. Second when the power on the electric grids comes back on line don't want to fry my stuff, which will happen if running generator when it happens and it will do just that believe me.
Oh and I live in central coast area. Retried Fire fighter...
Kit

 

[kit s]

Mine will run 20 hours gas half load (4gal tank), 15 hours half load 5 gal Propane, 10 hours full load 5gal propane.

 

[johnmeyer]

... Already had by pass switch (trans fer switch) wired into electric system so now all I do is set up generator plug in into my switch flip the lever and away it goes. PG&E side is disconnected from my system and I am good to go. Two reason for this ...one don't want to energize any lines that may back feed into main lines of the electric grid and kill somebody.
...
Oh and I live in central coast area. Retried Fire fighter...
Kit

I'm on the Central Coast as well (Carmel Valley). PG&E is a terrible energy provider because the power goes out so frequently.

I was supposed to have a transfer switch installed when we remodeled back in '93, but the electrician reneged on his quote, so it never got installed. You are correct that it is pretty much a mandatory device if you are going to power the house.

However, since I don't have one, I have to manually turn off the main breaker next to the meter in order to isolate my generator from PG&E. I then backfeed, using "suicide plugs" (two male ends) into circuits that are on each of the two phases, and which have no GFI outlets between the point where I backfeed and the circuit breaker panel.

If I've had even one sip of alcohol, I won't do it. It isn't all that tricky, now that I've done it 30+ times, but forgetting to turn off that main switch, or forgetting which end of the suicide plug should be connected first could make for some nasty problems.

I definitely do not recommend that anyone else do this, and therefore I won't post any details as to how it is done.

I recently found that you can get partial transfer switches which install next to the breaker panel. I don't consider myself qualified to install a full transfer switch, but I've replaced breakers and done other things with a breaker panel, so perhaps I should install this in order to have a safer way to power the few circuits that are key to making the house work.

 

[kit s]

The transfer switch is a good investment, and yes if you forget the main...bad juju can happen. Retired CDF and I worked out of Pebble beach, Rio road ,Carmel Hill and Highlands. Small world.
My moms maiden name was Meyer...go figure.

 

[R Blum]

I'm on the Central Coast as well (Carmel Valley). PG&E is a terrible energy provider because the power goes out so frequently.

I was supposed to have a transfer switch installed when we remodeled back in '93, but the electrician reneged on his quote, so it never got installed. You are correct that it is pretty much a mandatory device if you are going to power the house.

However, since I don't have one, I have to manually turn off the main breaker next to the meter in order to isolate my generator from PG&E. I then backfeed, using "suicide plugs" (two male ends) into circuits that are on each of the two phases, and which have no GFI outlets between the point where I backfeed and the circuit breaker panel.

If I've had even one sip of alcohol, I won't do it. It isn't all that tricky, now that I've done it 30+ times, but forgetting to turn off that main switch, or forgetting which end of the suicide plug should be connected first could make for some nasty problems.

I definitely do not recommend that anyone else do this, and therefore I won't post any details as to how it is done.

I recently found that you can get partial transfer switches which install next to the breaker panel. I don't consider myself qualified to install a full transfer switch, but I've replaced breakers and done other things with a breaker panel, so perhaps I should install this in order to have a safer way to power the few circuits that are key to making the house work.

I use the backfeed method also. My generator is 10,000 surge watts with 8,000 running watts on gasoline. Less on propane. The good thing about propane is it is cleaner to run than gas and it never goes bad like gasoline. I use 100lb tanks.

 

[weedeater]

Sam’s Club has a generator for sale that is dual fuel right out of the box. 4375/3500 peak/running watts on gasoline that drops to 4000/3150 on propane. Reviews look real good. 4.8 out of 5.0

Price is right at $299.00

Weedeater

 

[R Blum]

Sam’s Club has a generator for sale that is dual fuel right out of the box. 4375/3500 peak/running watts on gasoline that drops to 4000/3150 on propane. Reviews look real good. 4.8 out of 5.0

Price is right at $299.00

Weedeater


View attachment 371261

That's the generator I have but in 10,000/8000 watts. Thing is a beast.

 

[johnmeyer]

Wow, even by "big box" store standards, that is an absolutely amazing price. How can they even ship it to stores for that price?

If I were in the market for a direct replacement or an upgrade to my ancient 4KW Coleman, I'd be all over that beast. Instead, I have that little Honda in my sights because its portability and long run times opens up new ways of using the generator and, with the propane/NG conversion, promises some insanely long run times.

 

[VancleVector]

My friend did.

He used an old carburetor off my kids Go-Kart. It was shot and not repairable. It was physically the same size as the carb on my 10 hp generator and made by the same company. If you decide to use the carburetor off your engine be aware that this process is not reversible and it will make the carburetor totally useless for any other purpose.

I slao wandering if it can be done.

I purchased a Propane Generator from Central Maine Diesel a few years ago.

20 HP Honda engine, Italian generator head.
Paid about $2300 plus shipping via Paradise Freight which was a few hundred.
I see the price is just a bit higher now... Sometimes I might think that diesle generator might be good.
Recently it blew a capacitor. Central Maine sent me 2 for the price of one even though it is out of warranty. $39 total for two.

 

[hardcookin]

If you are going to be running multiple things you might want to think bigger.
the problem being multiple things trying to start at the same time.
The Honda's is sure quiet.
Also...Have you ever checked into the price of a home generator system with you loosing power all the time?

 

[johnmeyer]

If you decide to use the carburetor off your engine be aware that this process is not reversible and it will make the carburetor totally useless for any other purpose.

Fortunately the conversion kit from Hutch Mountain (and from half a dozen other vendors) maintain the ability to still use gasoline. The Hutch Mountain conversion comes with a switch and all you do is turn off the gasoline fuel (first setting on the switch) until the generator runs dry. Then, hook up the propane, turn the switch to "propane," and then re-start the engine.

If you are going to be running multiple things you might want to think bigger.
the problem being multiple things trying to start at the same time.
The Honda's is sure quiet.
Also...Have you ever checked into the price of a home generator system with you loosing power all the time?

Yes, I've thought of all of those things. I've been using my old Coleman for a quarter century, so I'm very familiar with the roughly 2.5x power requirement when starting motors on refrigerators, etc. The solution is to let each one turn on and get running before turning on the next one.

I'm also familiar with another hidden "gotcha" that is just as big, and results in only being able to use 1/2 your generator's rated power, in some circumstances. This happens because most larger generators provide 3-phase power, the same as what feeds into your house from your utility company. You get 240V across one phase, and then two 120V circuits across the other two phases. Without going into the technical details, this means that only 1/2 the generator's rated power is actually available to any given 120V load. Thus, my 4KW gen can actually only provide 2KW to any 120 volt load. With the 2.5x (approximate) starting load factor, this means that I can't power a motor with a nameplate rating of much more than 800 watts.

Thus, a 4,000 watt generator is only barely sufficient for one 800 watt motor!

As for the whole home system, it is the gold standard, and I most certainly did consider it. However, they are dreadfully expensive, and a lot more difficult to maintain than a smaller unit. They also take up a lot of space, since they are the same size as a whole-house air conditioner. Finally, they are a permanent fixture, so when you move, it is going to stay with the house. That permanence and size also means that it can't be used off-site. My current generator is extremely heavy and would require two strong people to get it into the back of a truck, but at least I have that option. With the Honda, I can very easily lift and transport it anywhere.

So, on paper the Honda seems to be the perfect thing for my requirements. Yes, it will have to be set up when a power failure happens, unlike the whole house generator, which turns on automatically. And yes, it is only about 1,800 watts. However, since it is not a three-phase generator, all of that wattage is available to any motor I might want to run, so I have almost exactly the same ability to start a motor as before. It is massively quieter than either my current generator or a whole house generator, both of which are horribly loud. The fuel consumption is a fraction of a conventional generator, thanks to the inverter and Honda's engine technology (it should give me about 3x the running time with the same amount of fuel). And, if the propane/NG gas conversion works, I can run this until the engine fails, meaning that I could run it for months off my natural gas line.

Finally, if I find that I can't quite power everything, I can purchase the "companion" unit which is another generator that is meant to be slaved to the first generator. The slaving keeps the two in sync, so the AC voltage goes up and down at the same time, thus avoiding power problems when connecting to the house wiring. With both of them running, I'd have the same 4KW as I have today which, in my experience, lets me power absolutely everything in the house except for my oven, clothes dryer, and spa pump. I have no problem living without those things for extended periods of time.

 

[hardcookin]

John thanks for the in depth answer!
One more thing I thought, I would mention Harbor Freight has it own Honda 2000 imitator - Predator Generator you can get them on sale $449
I have had one for awhile...Always starts on the 2nd or 3rd pull.

 

[Angeou]

I have 24KW Deutz generator but it uses diesel not gasoline. I bought one year ago. It is $5,000. Nice price. Now it still run well. I use it as backup power supply. Not use many times.
Honda generator is also famous and good generator. You can try to search help from your supplier or technician.