Please reel me in on Lang or Shirley - big or small stick burner
- Thread starter Bigpappa1
- Start date
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Thanks bigpappa1!
I just wanted to add that the design of, and actual fire air flow is "THE" most important part of a stick burner. It doesn't matter how good a weld is or how good it looks if it doesn't burn or flow good....... Both a Lang and Shirley will burn and flow good because they both have earned the reputation as doing such. Lang are full 1/4" steel everywhere, and Shirley's are a combination of 3/8" & 1/4" with the round pipe part being 3/8" & all the other stuff is 1/4". Other design differences include: Lang has about 1/3 of the fire box extended into the HCC to help transfer some additional radiant heat. Shirley has no FB in the HCC, which helps keep a more uniform HCC but is not as efficient. Lang has a "sunken" smoke stack drawing air from about 1/3 down inside the HCC, where Shirley draws from the top of the HCC. There are benefits and strengths to both of these differences and it comes down to how you want to use the smoker.
Also unless you are planning on doing parties and large groups I would recommend the smallest size in either brand. Its not very efficient to smoke a single port butt or 2 racks of ribs on a 48" cooker. That just wastes wood. That said the Lang 36 will be a bit more compact and lighter than the small Shirley (unless your doing a full custom build) so it would be a better fit for your garage situation.
An additional thought.....I can say that If I were to go and buy fresh steel and make a 36" inch deluxe Lang model copy, I would be in to it for the same $$$ in steel and materials as what Lang sells them for so I'm not sure I know how they build them and sell them for that price. If I were to sell my Copper pot I would want about 2.6-3K plus shipping........IE a similar price to what Shirley sells there for.
Thank you so much for that information, Civil. I really appreciate it!
My guess is that he is buying materials at a MUCH cheaper rate than a single user. I actually used to work for the 2nd largest consumer of sheet steel in the country and you can believe that we bought it right.
Your post makes me want to build one, an idea I had entertained a while back. With the kids being so little, though, I just don’t have the time or space. Thanks again, that kind of info is really awesome to know!
You make a good point on the size as well. Honestly, 51 out of 52 weekends that thing is going to see a rack of ribs...and that’s it. Okay, a lot of times I throw chicken thighs in there and I mix it up on the ribs, but still. My 18” WSM gives me all the space I need for my family right now, just harder for big cooks. Those cooks are more of a rarity than something I’m really doing all the time so...the decision path is getting clearer...ish...
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Yeah, Lang looks very nice. Good consistent welds and such. I assume the doors fit good and tight and all, though I have heard a complaint or two out there, but that’s it. One thing that I really like about the Shirley and some others is how they grind and polish the welds around the end of the HCC. I think that’s a really nice touch to make the unit look like a piece of patio furniture, a fixture. Knowing how little difference that makes with performance though, I sometimes consider getting Bell on the phone knowing how much I could get for the buck...oh, decisions...I’m trying too hard. I want it to be a one-time purchase. I may need to accept that someday, I just might buy another one...
Alphonse
Meat Mopper
civilsmoker
your advice regarding size is spot on. My observation of folks buying pits that are substantially larger than they need is a bit sad. They will never really use the capacity and the fuel efficiency will always be low.
I have a crazy thought for you..........you could always get the standard Lang 36 and start making memories and enjoying a very fine cooker.......then if you want a little more functionally later when you have the room and time, just add a vertical cooking chamber on the Lang yourself.......you could also clean up the welds and make it as perty as you want too.......it’s kind of like getting your cake and getting it to eat it later too......
Nole4L
Meat Mopper
- Jun 6, 2018
- 182
- 114
ye
I don't have any complaints about the fit of the doors, etc. My Lang seals well and has latches on both sides that add to that. Having said that I'm not someone who thinks that you can take two pieces of steel and seal it up like a refrigerator door. I've seen folks who do all sorts of mods putting silicone gaskets, etc to try and accomplish this. To all about maintaining an even temperature, not a completely sealed cook chamber. In the case of the Lang and the Shirley they have so much mass that they hold temp well. Not saying I have leaks....just not something I worry about because the temperature of the chamber stays pretty consistent once it's rolling.
You have all given me a lot of really good advice and things to think about.
Civilmoker: I see your point, I just don't want to do any mods or add-ons later on. If I need to make an adjustment, I think I would rather just wait longer and order it stock from the OEM. I'm coming to terms with the idea that I will probably need to spend more towards the $2k mark to get what I want. I think you and Alphnose are dead-on about the size as well. As much as people advise getting a size bigger than you think you will need, I really do have to come back to the fact that I literally cook a rack of ribs and some chicken 99% of the time. That's it. Either of the smaller patio smokers I'm looking at would manage that and plenty more, very easily. There's no sense in smoking 1 rack of ribs on a 48" smoker.
Nole4L: That's really great info to hear from someone who owns one. I've been looking for that kind of insight from someone that has one, so it's really helpful. Here are the things I see as differentiating factors between the two smokers. All of these things beings laid out, I can see how someone would think it's nitpicking. Then again when you get to the top of the line, the differences DO tend to be a bit nitpicky.
A little bit of fit and finish
Shirley on the left and Lang on the right
Tough Shirley's welds look to be superior, I can't say that the Lang welding is below part...AT ALL. I work in industrial automation with robotic welding being one of the things that we provide. I wouldn't be surprised if those welds on the lang are done via robot. That's not a knock, just the way it looks. I can't imagine Lang could keep up with demand without some automation. The point I'm making here, is about the placement of the welds and where the joinery is finished off. The edge of the Shirley - where the pipe meets the end - is nice and rounded on the Shirley. I happen to like that. I think it's a really nice touch that makes the unit look like a piece of furniture, which is something I appreciate.
Door Finish/Framing
Shirley on the left and Lang on the right
Looking at the fit and finish in the doors, it appears that Shirley just kind of buttons theirs up a bit more neatly. To be fair, Shirley's may look a little better simply because they have the door stop inset, lending to a more streamlined finish, whereas Lang has the door stops on the outside which, at least when opened, leaves the door opening look a little less refined (all just an opinion of course). I also notice that Shirley has a slide-out fire rack in there, which is a nice touch.
Other Notes
- Removable Racks - All of Shirley's racks slide out where only Lang's top one does. I could see all racks being sliding very convenient when you want to get at something that might be located towards the back on the bottom rack. Wrestling around the meat in that tight space would get old, but then again, it probably wouldn't be that frequent.
- Cooking Space - The Shirley clearly offers the most cooking space per square foot of floor space, even with the warmer.
- Two Cooking Zones and Price - If I want two cooking zones I'm going to have to put a warmer on a Shirley which is going to raise the price (I have an email into them to see how much). The Lang comes at the same price as the Shirley with the warmer and vents already included.
- Thickness of Cooking Chamber - I need to nail this down, but Shirley says their cook chamber is 3/8" as opposed to Lang's 1/4". I say I need to nail that down because I just watched a video where Shirley said that only the end round part of the cooker is 3/8" but the cabinet is 1/4". That doesn't make sense to me, so it's worth asking. 3/8" doesn't seem like much, but it's 50% thicker. Living in Iowa winters, that could be helpful.
- Intangibles and Company Culture - This might seem odd, but being in the job that I am, I can't NOT notice these things. When you look around some of the cut-outs on the Lang (firebox opening, cut-outs in pin-wheel vents, even the main chamber) it looks like they are using a low-res plasma or something. I can tell by the wavy edges and occasional knicks and tool path cut-ins on the corners. I'm surprised they wouldn't be using a laser or even a hi-def plasma. Shirley's look super clean, which tells me that they are at least paying attention to this. I'm just surprised that with as long as Lang has been in business it doesn't look like they are re-investing in their output quality. I'm not in their shop so I don't know that for sure, but it looks like it from the outside.
The same can be said for their marketing. The website looks dated, even though it appears to have current information. Their cooker pictures still show units that don't have slide-out racks which is standard for them now. They also aren't the most telling pictures, they could be more involved. It's also surprising how few videos they have on YouTube for the patio models. They don't even have a walk-through, you have to find someone else that does, which are also few. Shirley appears to have a modern and up-to-date approach to their marketing, particularly with YouTube. While this is a critique of their business approach, it is mostly a complaint that I can't get a good vision of the cooker from a distance. Shirley makes that very easy and in-depth. Lang's videos seem to be dated and sparse. It can kind of seem like they are resting on their laurels a bit, which just gives me a bum perspective when spending money with them.
All said, I'm still a little unsure, but to be honest I'm leaning Shirley. That could still change as the Lang's just plain WORK. All of the things I have pointed out are pretty damned small. I'll let you know what Shirley says about price for adding on a warmer box with a vent for two-zone cooks.
Civilmoker: I see your point, I just don't want to do any mods or add-ons later on. If I need to make an adjustment, I think I would rather just wait longer and order it stock from the OEM. I'm coming to terms with the idea that I will probably need to spend more towards the $2k mark to get what I want. I think you and Alphnose are dead-on about the size as well. As much as people advise getting a size bigger than you think you will need, I really do have to come back to the fact that I literally cook a rack of ribs and some chicken 99% of the time. That's it. Either of the smaller patio smokers I'm looking at would manage that and plenty more, very easily. There's no sense in smoking 1 rack of ribs on a 48" smoker.
Nole4L: That's really great info to hear from someone who owns one. I've been looking for that kind of insight from someone that has one, so it's really helpful. Here are the things I see as differentiating factors between the two smokers. All of these things beings laid out, I can see how someone would think it's nitpicking. Then again when you get to the top of the line, the differences DO tend to be a bit nitpicky.
A little bit of fit and finish
Shirley on the left and Lang on the right
Tough Shirley's welds look to be superior, I can't say that the Lang welding is below part...AT ALL. I work in industrial automation with robotic welding being one of the things that we provide. I wouldn't be surprised if those welds on the lang are done via robot. That's not a knock, just the way it looks. I can't imagine Lang could keep up with demand without some automation. The point I'm making here, is about the placement of the welds and where the joinery is finished off. The edge of the Shirley - where the pipe meets the end - is nice and rounded on the Shirley. I happen to like that. I think it's a really nice touch that makes the unit look like a piece of furniture, which is something I appreciate.
Door Finish/Framing
Shirley on the left and Lang on the right
Looking at the fit and finish in the doors, it appears that Shirley just kind of buttons theirs up a bit more neatly. To be fair, Shirley's may look a little better simply because they have the door stop inset, lending to a more streamlined finish, whereas Lang has the door stops on the outside which, at least when opened, leaves the door opening look a little less refined (all just an opinion of course). I also notice that Shirley has a slide-out fire rack in there, which is a nice touch.
Other Notes
- Removable Racks - All of Shirley's racks slide out where only Lang's top one does. I could see all racks being sliding very convenient when you want to get at something that might be located towards the back on the bottom rack. Wrestling around the meat in that tight space would get old, but then again, it probably wouldn't be that frequent.
- Cooking Space - The Shirley clearly offers the most cooking space per square foot of floor space, even with the warmer.
- Two Cooking Zones and Price - If I want two cooking zones I'm going to have to put a warmer on a Shirley which is going to raise the price (I have an email into them to see how much). The Lang comes at the same price as the Shirley with the warmer and vents already included.
- Thickness of Cooking Chamber - I need to nail this down, but Shirley says their cook chamber is 3/8" as opposed to Lang's 1/4". I say I need to nail that down because I just watched a video where Shirley said that only the end round part of the cooker is 3/8" but the cabinet is 1/4". That doesn't make sense to me, so it's worth asking. 3/8" doesn't seem like much, but it's 50% thicker. Living in Iowa winters, that could be helpful.
- Intangibles and Company Culture - This might seem odd, but being in the job that I am, I can't NOT notice these things. When you look around some of the cut-outs on the Lang (firebox opening, cut-outs in pin-wheel vents, even the main chamber) it looks like they are using a low-res plasma or something. I can tell by the wavy edges and occasional knicks and tool path cut-ins on the corners. I'm surprised they wouldn't be using a laser or even a hi-def plasma. Shirley's look super clean, which tells me that they are at least paying attention to this. I'm just surprised that with as long as Lang has been in business it doesn't look like they are re-investing in their output quality. I'm not in their shop so I don't know that for sure, but it looks like it from the outside.
The same can be said for their marketing. The website looks dated, even though it appears to have current information. Their cooker pictures still show units that don't have slide-out racks which is standard for them now. They also aren't the most telling pictures, they could be more involved. It's also surprising how few videos they have on YouTube for the patio models. They don't even have a walk-through, you have to find someone else that does, which are also few. Shirley appears to have a modern and up-to-date approach to their marketing, particularly with YouTube. While this is a critique of their business approach, it is mostly a complaint that I can't get a good vision of the cooker from a distance. Shirley makes that very easy and in-depth. Lang's videos seem to be dated and sparse. It can kind of seem like they are resting on their laurels a bit, which just gives me a bum perspective when spending money with them.
All said, I'm still a little unsure, but to be honest I'm leaning Shirley. That could still change as the Lang's just plain WORK. All of the things I have pointed out are pretty damned small. I'll let you know what Shirley says about price for adding on a warmer box with a vent for two-zone cooks.
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johnh12
Meat Mopper
FWIW I've had a Lang 36 that I thought was too small so I sold it and got a Lang 60D. The 60D has everything you said you really want but the reality for me was that it was more than I really needed.
I recently sold the 60D and ordered a Shirley Fab 24 x 36 that s/b delivered soon, I hope.
As far as the Lang 36 vs the 48, you don't really gain that much cooking space with the 48 IMO.
The Shirley 24 x 36 wait is about 4 to 8 weeks so it's the same as the Lang I think.
I can't speak for the Bell Fab at all but most pics I saw look like it's a traditional flow, not a reverse flow. I could be wrong about that though. The Langs and Shirleys are both reverse flow.
As far as shipping... You didn't say where you're located. Lang will arrange shipping but the primary Shirley shipper is Kevin White (850-240-269). Call him for a quote and call Lang for their quote.
I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer. Of course "pretty" was never a factor that I considered. I wanted functional and I think the reverse flow of either is the way to go.
Whatever you go with will be very easy to sell if you change your mind about size.
I recently sold the 60D and ordered a Shirley Fab 24 x 36 that s/b delivered soon, I hope.
As far as the Lang 36 vs the 48, you don't really gain that much cooking space with the 48 IMO.
The Shirley 24 x 36 wait is about 4 to 8 weeks so it's the same as the Lang I think.
I can't speak for the Bell Fab at all but most pics I saw look like it's a traditional flow, not a reverse flow. I could be wrong about that though. The Langs and Shirleys are both reverse flow.
As far as shipping... You didn't say where you're located. Lang will arrange shipping but the primary Shirley shipper is Kevin White (850-240-269). Call him for a quote and call Lang for their quote.
I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer. Of course "pretty" was never a factor that I considered. I wanted functional and I think the reverse flow of either is the way to go.
Whatever you go with will be very easy to sell if you change your mind about size.
Yes, the Bell units are traditional, which I actually can see advantages to when you think about creating different zones within a cooker. That's something that is on my radar. I'm located in Iowa. Lang quoted me $500 for shipping for the 36" unit, whether a deluxe or not. My guess is that Shirley would be a bit more, either for weight or because I am guessing they don't use LTL. I used to do a lot of shipping so it's not out of the question that I would just try to find a flatbed coming through the area with 8' of open trailer they're looking to make some money on and broker it. That would be the easiest loading for them and the safest shipping for the unit, in my opinion. I can unload it with a forklift at my brother's shop and then car trailer it to my house. Voila. Then again, if this Kevin fellow is the guy for Shirley, I'm happy to use him as well.
johnh12
Meat Mopper
The Shirley facilities in Tuscaloosa, AL are closer to Iowa than the Langs in Nahunta, GA.
The wait for a stock 24 x 36 and delivery might be close.
Good luck with whatever you chose. As I said, any of the 3 you've mentioned will cook up some great Q.
The wait for a stock 24 x 36 and delivery might be close.
Good luck with whatever you chose. As I said, any of the 3 you've mentioned will cook up some great Q.
Thanks, John. They are actually 4 hours closer to my hometown, so that could be a reasonable difference in shipping.
I understand what your looking at as my old man is a professional welder(retired now) so I grew up around the industry. I noticed as well a few minor things regarding the finish on bell fab smokers but given his wait list and the positive response to his rigs......and let’s not forget his price point dear lord!
And Bell fab is doing his own work! So call him and talk shop!
Maybe influence you down the road????
And Bell fab is doing his own work! So call him and talk shop!
Maybe influence you down the road????
I know when “welders” found out what my father did they thought it was cool and liked to talk. So maybe the appreciation would the same once you guys interacted a bit? And would sell you on his product hence you would get a rig sooner?
Either way you will get a good cooker but will have to look at it every time you go outside so......That’s the hard part right! LoL
Either way you will get a good cooker but will have to look at it every time you go outside so......That’s the hard part right! LoL
If you are concerned with aesthetics I would get a Shirley and then Lang. With Bell Fab you are going to get a well made smoker, but the aesthetics are not of high priority, given the pricing I understand.
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