packer???

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A lot of work to perfect & lots unknowns for not having cooked 100’s of them. It was moist and tender. Would have hated to pull it off at a lower temp and have it not be butter tender. Would have been nice if the meat had a little more tension / resistance to it...
But overall I’m happy with the flavor, appears really can’t over salt these things...
I took your advice on salt ratio per pound. Sent a picture to my buddy from work and he said pack on this evening and seasoning even thicker and overall finished product was not overly seasoned as far as taste goes, we are still very good
 
Good! I'm glad to hear it. It all starts with the first one.
It's tough to over-salt a brisket in my opinion as long as you dry brine it. If you put all that salt into it and then put it directly on the smoker, salt would be all you taste! Found out that hard way on that. You need to give it time to get into the meat.
One thing you could do to change the consistency is cut it a little thinner. I have found how you cut things plays a very large role in the texture.
Happy Q'ing.
 
thanks guys, appreciate the positive reassurance....
 
A lot of work to perfect & lots unknowns for not having cooked 100’s of them. It was moist and tender. Would have hated to pull it off at a lower temp and have it not be butter tender. Would have been nice if the meat had a little more tension / resistance to it...
But overall I’m happy with the flavor, appears really can’t over salt these things...
I took your advice on salt ratio per pound. Sent a picture to my buddy from work and he said pack on this evening and seasoning even thicker and overall finished product was not overly seasoned as far as taste goes, we are still very good

Beware you can over salt the flat more easily than you may think.
Now other seasonings, yeah it's hard to over season, but you can over salt the flat for sure.
 
Hahahaha no need to overthink it too much.
You have the main part down that it's ready when it probes tender ALL OVER.

The IT will tell you when to check for tenderness. Just be sure to put the probe into the thickest yet center most part of the FLAT muscle, not the point. Also understand that getting an accurate probe placement in this magical spot is actually a difficult thing so I use 3 probes aiming for the spot from different angles and go with the lowest one. I check for tenderness when the lowest reads 200F.
So again its done when it's tender ALL OVER.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, there are many different opinions and approaches that people take.

I go fat side up, unwrapped the whole time never opening the smoker until time to check for tenderness, with smoker temp at 275F and make AMAZING briskets. I also run 100% Mesquite smoke from pellets in my AMNPS which is part of the magic.

So when I say "don't overthink it too much" that's because my approach is drastically different then ones you are seeing but everyone here is making brisket they love!
The key is to stick to the true fundamentals of smoking a brisket and u will be ok.

Now some other fundamental things not mentioned.

Timing the smoke/cook... maybe the number 1 reason people fail briskets. Brisket is a cut doesn't care what temp it is cooked at. At 275F smoker temp, unwrapped, and not opening the door until thermometer tells me 200F IT so I can check for tenderness... my briskets take just over an hour a pound.
IMPORTANT: Pick temp you will smoke at and research how long the brisket may take on average and then add 4 hours to that time. Take that total time and start that many hours before you plan to serve and eat.
If the brisket takes longer, no problem. You have 4 spare hours for it to finish.
If the brisket finishes 4 hours early, then awesome! Tightly double wrap in foil. Tightly wrap again in 3 bath towels and set on the counter until time to slice, serve, and eat.
Example: A 15 pound brisket takes me about 16 hours at a smoker temp of 275F so I start the smoke 20 hours before I want to eat (this means an overnight smoke... all briskets are unless super hot and fast or put in the fridge and eat the next day).
So learn how fast your smoke may take at your temp and if/when you wrap.

Wrapping...
If you wrap too early you will end up with brisket that tastes like oven roast beef and that defeats the point of smoking the thing to begin with. If in doubt wrap when it's IT get's higher or don't wrap at all. I've found that if waiting until IT of 170F or so you will never end up with roast beef flavor. Hell I go to 180F on anything I'm going to wrap and have found it works for beef and pork and is basically a "one size fits all" approach to avoid the dreaded oven roast flavor.

Tenderness... you understand this. Most people starting brisket smokes don't understand this AND they don't figure out their timing and they pull their brisket early and have a disappointing failure.

Trimming... you have some things to try. No one ever gets trimming nailed the 1st time around so I'll let this be a learning lesson for you as you have some things to try already hahaha :)

Finally...
Understand these important fundamental areas of brisket cooking, you will come out with good results that you then improve upon with each brisket smoke :)

I hope this info helps :)
so you don't check until 200 ° IT. Someone said a Choice brisket can be ready at 180°-- I don't mean to QUESTION you (but I am---LOL) I have a full brisket that is only 8 pounds and the flat part is not too thick (It had to fit my 18" WSM and my pocketbook. ) So you still think I won't go wrong at 200°? I have another question. You said IF someone wrapped (pork, beef?) don't do it to 170-180°. What if I hit a stall at 162°? When would I wrap? --after the stall?? Thanks for your valuable help as always. Charlie
 
Hey Slater,
You'll find several different opinions on how to do a brisket right. However, here goes my opinion:
You have a full packet. The best deals for this are in the $2-5/pound range. First, you'll need to trim it. plenty of videos online about this, but the short of it is: Get rid of the hard fat, and keep the soft squishy fat. There will be a large vein of hard fat that will separate the flat and the point. You don't need to go to town on this vein, but it'll be the primary way to get the overall thickness as uniform as possible. There will be some hard/partially cooked fat along the side, go ahead and take a large knife and just cut off an inch and straighten out the side. This got hard because of the steam during packaging and was partially cooked. You'll see the meat in this area is also slightly off color because of that.
One side will have a lot of fat, this is the fat cap. Sometimes these come with only 1/4" of fat, other times I've seen them almost up to an inch. You want to trim it down to about 1/4" thick. Any thicker means it takes longer for the heat to get to the meat, and you essentially are cooking it from one side for a little while. Not a big deal, but just a point to consider if you have a large fat cap. On the flip side, I like to keep the fat cap towards the heat to act as an insulator.
On the non fat cap side you'll see some silvery looking skin. I like to remove this, but not necessary.
For a dry brine, I'd take about 1/2 tsp of course kosher salt per pound and sprinkle all over the meat side. Don't bother salting the fat cap, salt doesn't dissolve in oil. Place uncovered in a fridge for 24 hours or more.
I like to smoke briskets at 250F, so once you are preheated then add your rub to your brisket. Make sure your rub doesn't contain salt, as you have already added quite a bit... If it does contain salt, back off on the dry brine a bit. Place your thermometer in the flat portion. The flat will tell you when it's done.
Once your brisket hits the stall (about 155F), I like to wrap it in foil or butcher paper. It's not getting any warmer until sufficient liquid has been cooked off. Continue cooking until the flat is about 200F.
I will rest on the counter for about 30 min and then slice against the grain for max tenderness. The grain direction on the flat is different than the point, so observe prior to cooking.
Overall, the above is about ~9-12 hours depending on how tough the meat is.

Points to note on "done": Be careful of the "hold". This is where you wrap the brisket in towels and put in a cooler and let it hold at that temperature for a few more hours. The brisket will continue to cook. I have found that if your probe can go in and out like jelly, it doesn't need to cook for a few more hours. IF you hit an internal temp of 200, and the probe does not VERY EASILY go through the flat, I will hold for an hour and check again. I will not continue to cook on the smoker. If I hit an internal temp of 200 and the probe is easily going through the flat, I put on the counter to rest.

Good luck man. Make sure you get pics.
For a dry brine, I'd take about 1/2 tsp of course kosher salt per pound and sprinkle all over the meat side. Don't bother salting the fat cap, salt doesn't dissolve in oil. Place uncovered in a fridge for 24 hours or more.
I cover my steaks with that salt and then minimum of 45 minutes later--I literally wash it off----then add pepper. I was wondering your thoughts on covering it with Kosher salt and rinsing off an hour or 2 later? (I am too scared to use your method thinking it would be too salty?? I guess it isn't or you wouldn't do it---LOL) Charlie
 
so you don't check until 200 ° IT. Someone said a Choice brisket can be ready at 180°-- I don't mean to QUESTION you (but I am---LOL) I have a full brisket that is only 8 pounds and the flat part is not too thick (It had to fit my 18" WSM and my pocketbook. ) So you still think I won't go wrong at 200°? I have another question. You said IF someone wrapped (pork, beef?) don't do it to 170-180°. What if I hit a stall at 162°? When would I wrap? --after the stall?? Thanks for your valuable help as always. Charlie

No problem it's best to ask if curious :)

I personally find it hard to believe a whole packer brisket or a flat muscle alone would be tender at 180F. MABYE a point muscle, but I've never tried. I just know point muscles get tender way faster and are easy going so it's hard to mess them up. This is why you don't temp or probe the point, you do so to the flat :)
Also my understanding of how collagen melts down is that it takes being over 190F for a period of time for collagen to become juicy goodness so the 180F part makes me very skeptical about that particular number. Yeah it is cooked and edible at 180F but not likely very tender... again only trying would tell but all other known evidence and supporting info speaks to not having a tender brisket :)

My brisket tenderness checking number is 200F which is really consistent with my system and with the choice briskets I come across frequently. I can tell you that with a prime brisket I check at 198F as they are fattier and in my experience they seem to get tender faster.

Many guys will say to check at 195F. I personally wait until a minimum of 198F but checking at 195F doesnt hurt as long as you don't keep doing so and kill your timeline to finish the cook. My practices are simply based on my setup and based on the history of the Choice packers I tend to come across and pick.

As for wrapping. My philosophy is 100% about flavor and has nothing to do with the stall.
I handle the stall by... just letting it stall and do it's thing... so not really handling it at all hahaha. I simply understand in my setup how long a brisket tends to generally go at 275F (a little over an hour a pound).
I find an unwrapped brisket cooked the entire time tastes 20x better to me than a wrapped brisket. Now I've only ever done a wrap with foil so I can't speak to pink butcher paper.
In the cases that I do wrap (chuck roasts because they are leaner), I wait until an it of like 180F or so because it seems the meat has soaked in enough smoke, done some good open air flavor development, formed acceptable bark taste and consistency, etc. With the time taken to hit 180F I find the flavor to be waaaaaay better then wrapping at like 160F to beat the stall. The flavor is not as good as unrwapped the whole way but is still very good and with cuts like a chuck roast I find you have to wrap with a little splashed liquid or it dries up on u too badly.

To me the worst thing you can do with a brisket is to wrap it early and have it coming out tasting more like oven roasted beef than a smoked bbq brisket!!!!
That oven roast beef flavor completely undermines the hard work, effort, cost, and TIME spent to to make a smoked bbq brisket that tastes like it was cooked in an oven.
There is nothing wrong with an oven beef roast but I could do that inside the house in way less time with like 10% the effort spent.

I'm glad you are asking the questions so you can understand my specific situation and my motivations. Your system may vary some but I think the practices stay the same if you want to apply them.
I always suggest to people that they try a brisket unwrapped if they have only ever wrapped. And that they even try wrapping later if they still want to wrap. It's all about doing a few tried and true things, landing on what you like, and even tweaking to make it better according to your tastes :)

Let me know if this makes sense and do not hesitate to ask any questions. Thanks! :)
 
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No problem it's best to ask if curious :)

I personally find it hard to believe a whole packer brisket or a flat muscle alone would be tender at 180F. MABYE a point muscle, but I've never tried. I just know point muscles get tender way faster and are easy going so it's hard to mess them up. This is why you don't temp or probe the point, you do so to the flat :)
Also my understanding of how collagen melts down is that it takes being over 190F for a period of time for collagen to become juicy goodness so the 180F part makes me very skeptical about that particular number. Yeah it is cooked and edible at 180F but not likely very tender... again only trying would tell but all other known evidence and supporting info speaks to not having a tender brisket :)

My brisket tenderness number is 200F which is really consistent with my system and with the choice briskets I come across frequently. I can tell you that with a prime brisket I check at 198F as they are fattier and in my experience they seem to get tender faster.

Many guys will say to check at 195F. I personally wait until a minimum of 198F but checking at 195F doesnt hurt as long as you don't keep doing so and kill your timeline to finish the cook. My practices are simply based on my setup and based on the history of the Choice packers I tend to come across and pick.

As for wrapping. My philosophy is 100% about flavor and has nothing to do with the stall.
I handle the stall by... just letting it stall and do it's thing... so not really handling it at all hahaha. I simply understand in my setup how long a brisket tends to generally go at 275F (a little over an hour a pound).
I find an unwrapped brisket cooked the entire time tastes 20x better to me than a wrapped brisket. Now I've only ever done a wrap with foil so I can't speak to pink butcher paper.
In the cases that I do wrap (chuck roasts because they are leaner), I wait until an it of like 180F or so because it seems the meat has soaked in enough smoke, done some good open air flavor development, formed acceptable bark taste and consistency, etc. With the time taken to hit 180F I find the flavor to be waaaaaay better then wrapping at like 160F to beat the stall. The flavor is not as good as unrwapped the whole way but is still very good and with cuts like a chuck roast I find you have to wrap with a little splashed liquid or it dries up on u too badly.

To me the worst thing you can do with a brisket is to wrap it early and have it coming out tasting more like oven roasted beef than a smoked bbq brisket!!!!
That oven roast beef flavor completely undermines the hard work, effort, cost, and TIME spent to to make a smoked bbq brisket that tastes like it was cooked in an oven.
There is nothing wrong with an oven beef roast but I could do that inside the house in way less time with like 10% the effort spent.

I'm glad you are asking the questions so you can understand my specific situation and my motivations. Your system may vary some but I think the practices stay the same if you want to apply them.
I always suggest to people that they dry a brisket unwrapped if they have only ever wrapped. And that they even try wrapping later if they still want to wrap. It's all about trying a few tried and true things, landing on what you like, and even tweaking to make it better according to your tastes :)

Let me know if this makes sense and do not hesitate to ask any questions. Thanks! :)
Carlo, you ALWAYS come through for me. I hope you know how much I appreciate it, You go beyond my questions and explain and answer--instead of answering. I have NEVER heard anyone say that (in their opinion) that unwrapped tastes best. I love the "My philosophy is 100% about flavor " Thanks again, Charlie
 
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Carlo, you ALWAYS come through for me. I hope you know how much I appreciate it, You go beyond my questions and explain and answer--instead of answering. I have NEVER heard anyone say that (in their opinion) that unwrapped tastes best. I love the "My philosophy is 100% about flavor " Thanks again, Charlie

No problem Charlie, I'm glad to help :)

I'm very long winded so I'm glad all that info can help some folks hahaha.
BTW I just did 2 pork butts (20 pounds total) unwrapped the whole time and mmmmmmm soooo good!
I ran an AMNPS full with 60% Hickory, 20% Cherry, 20% Maple. You know what I'm eating on all week and what I'll be vac sealing for tasty treats later :D
 
No problem Charlie, I'm glad to help :)

I'm very long winded so I'm glad all that info can help some folks hahaha.
BTW I just did 2 pork butts (20 pounds total) unwrapped the whole time and mmmmmmm soooo good!
I ran an AMNPS full with 60% Hickory, 20% Cherry, 20% Maple. You know what I'm eating on all week and what I'll be vac sealing for tasty treats later :D
LOL---I'll put my teeth back in and come join ya!
 
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For a dry brine, I'd take about 1/2 tsp of course kosher salt per pound and sprinkle all over the meat side. Don't bother salting the fat cap, salt doesn't dissolve in oil. Place uncovered in a fridge for 24 hours or more.
I cover my steaks with that salt and then minimum of 45 minutes later--I literally wash it off----then add pepper. I was wondering your thoughts on covering it with Kosher salt and rinsing off an hour or 2 later? (I am too scared to use your method thinking it would be too salty?? I guess it isn't or you wouldn't do it---LOL) Charlie
Hey Charlie, Believe it or not, the salt gets absorbed and distributed throughout the meat the longer it sits. If you think about the ratios, 1/2 tsp of salt per pound is generally quite low considering how some chefs just cover it in salt. Also, as the brisket cooks it'll squeeze out some liquid as well as some salt. The end product is not salty at all.
If you put the salt on and then cook it a few hours later, it didn't have time to enter the meat, so yes you would taste some salt.

Hope this helps man.
 
Glad my thread is turning into something useful, I need to smoke another......
 
Doing a bad thing, trying to rush a brisket cook....
Would it be the end of the world having my PS pit temp at a consistent 300 versus lower 275???
Have fat side down...
This is only my second brisket....
 
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consistent 300 vs 275???
Have fat side down...
I do mine at those temps . Last one I did on a pellet grill . Smoked at 250 , then bumped to 300 to finish .
When I use a kettle it likes to run around 250 / 300 .
 
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