MES40 Gen 1 resurrection and AMNPS conversion project

[smokaroma]

The Phoenix shall rise from the ashes!

I was recently given an MES40 Gen 1. It looks in sorry shape - rust on the walls, and racks. The chip tray and related parts are all rusty and fairly rotted. The drip pan and water bowl are missing (those may yet turn up, but I think they would be too badly rusted).

The smoker worked fine in initial testing. I've been reading threads, and I have my new AMNPS ready to go. The big question, what OEM interior parts should I order, if any? I know I need a heat deflector above the burner, to even out the heat (the plan is to use a plate of steel or aluminum, as Bear has suggested). I know I need to deflect and capture dripping grease. I can do simple metalworking.

Should I order a new OEM drip pan? Or would something else be better?

The chip drawer and box do not look worth saving. The rotating insert is in good condition, but I should not need it with the mailbox mod.

The rust is going to clean up well, but I'll need a good seasoning on the walls and racks to make a base and keep the rust from coming back. Does PAM really make a good hard coating? I've never used it. I know it contains silicone. I season my cast iron with either crisco or bacon grease. I want something that isn't going to wipe away easily, and won't go rancid. It also needs some temperature resistance around the heating element. That lower area (along with the floor) is where the rust is the worst.

I like to clean my grates on the grill, but I'll need to be careful about burning off my seasoning.

Once I get the smoker cleaned and seasoned, I plan to do the mailbox mod. It'll be nice to keep the corrosive ash out of the smoker box. I'm sure that, along with neglect, contributed to the rust.

I've noticed some rivets are missing from the bottom plate. Before replacing them, I'm wondering if I should drill the rest out and remove it for inspection. Has anyone replaced those with screws?

Currently, I have the smoker on a table. The door is off and the only thing remaining inside is the burner. The next step is to put on my PPE and do the dirty job - clean the walls, rack supports and rack, and the door. Then it's time to season. I'm taking photos.

Suggestions on tasks I've missed or should do while I am in there are appreciated!

 

[Rings Я Us]

Hurry up!
[emoji]128545[/emoji]

Haha.. just messing.. do a good job. [emoji]128077[/emoji]

 

[tallbm]

The Phoenix shall rise from the ashes!

I was recently given an MES40 Gen 1. It looks in sorry shape - rust on the walls, and racks. The chip tray and related parts are all rusty and fairly rotted. The drip pan and water bowl are missing (those may yet turn up, but I think they would be too badly rusted).

The smoker worked fine in initial testing. I've been reading threads, and I have my new AMNPS ready to go. The big question, what OEM interior parts should I order, if any? I know I need a heat deflector above the burner, to even out the heat (the plan is to use a plate of steel or aluminum, as Bear has suggested). I know I need to deflect and capture dripping grease. I can do simple metalworking.

Should I order a new OEM drip pan? Or would something else be better?

The chip drawer and box do not look worth saving. The rotating insert is in good condition, but I should not need it with the mailbox mod.

The rust is going to clean up well, but I'll need a good seasoning on the walls and racks to make a base and keep the rust from coming back. Does PAM really make a good hard coating? I've never used it. I know it contains silicone. I season my cast iron with either crisco or bacon grease. I want something that isn't going to wipe away easily, and won't go rancid. It also needs some temperature resistance around the heating element. That lower area (along with the floor) is where the rust is the worst.

I like to clean my grates on the grill, but I'll need to be careful about burning off my seasoning.

Once I get the smoker cleaned and seasoned, I plan to do the mailbox mod. It'll be nice to keep the corrosive ash out of the smoker box. I'm sure that, along with neglect, contributed to the rust.

I've noticed some rivets are missing from the bottom plate. Before replacing them, I'm wondering if I should drill the rest out and remove it for inspection. Has anyone replaced those with screws?

Currently, I have the smoker on a table. The door is off and the only thing remaining inside is the burner. The next step is to put on my PPE and do the dirty job - clean the walls, rack supports and rack, and the door. Then it's time to season. I'm taking photos.

Suggestions on tasks I've missed or should do while I am in there are appreciated!

Here is what my heavily moded MES40 looks like inside.  I have flipped the heating element, removed the whole chip tray cover and such and installed a convection fan.  I use the water tray (empty) as my heat shield.  As you can see I have removed a lot of the things you are missing and I have no issues with it :)

DSC_0286[1].JPG

• tallbm
• Apr 26, 2017

You just need Racks and you could consider a water pan like mine as a heat shield.

Beyond that I think you are good to go :)

As for the rivets you can replace them with  #12 - 1" self tapping Sheet Metal Screws/Fasteners.

I would highly recommend you inspect the electrical wire connectors (female spade connectors) that connect to the heating element!  These are usually the first thing to corrode away and with all of the rust you mention I wouldn't doubt that they crap out on you soon.

Also, there is the safety Rollout Limit Switch that has the same crappy electrical connector problems, this is the other area that is likely to crap out on you.

Use Hi Temp Stainless Steel connectors like Supco T1111c (typical female spade), or Supco T1113c (flag style female spade) rather than using the typical electrical connectors.  These hi temp will survive for sure.

If the safety Rollout Limit Switch is damaged or you happen to damage it while replacing connectors you can order a 5 pack of "KSD301" on amazon for less than $10.

s-l300.jpg

• tallbm
• Aug 25, 2017

You will likely have to remove the backing to check the roll out limit switch.  So that means drilling out the rivets and using the sheet screws to refasten it on.  

I would highly recommend you do these fixes now while you have things ready to be inspected.

Best of luck :)

 

[smokaroma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBM  



Thanks for the timely detail and excellent mods.

I'm stuck on an aspect of removing the back. There are threaded inserts for the back handle and roller feet. It isn't clear if they are a two part insert, or how to remove them without damaging the back. I'm doing all I can to avoid getting too heavy handed. I haven't found any mention of them in threads.

Any suggestions for a convection fan?

Is your drip pan the original MES?

It appears my MES has the 1200 watt heating element, which is great to see.

 

[tallbm]

 
Thanks for the timely detail and excellent mods.

I'm stuck on an aspect of removing the back. There are threaded inserts for the back handle and roller feet. It isn't clear if they are a two part insert, or how to remove them without damaging the back. I'm doing all I can to avoid getting too heavy handed. I haven't found any mention of them in threads.

Any suggestions for a convection fan?

Is your drip pan the original MES?

It appears my MES has the 1200 watt heating element, which is great to see.

 

[smokaroma]

Thanks for the help. I'll hold off on the fan for now.

I found a great thread with more detailed gen info, based on model numbers. There were a lot of variations, probably even more that aren't accounted for in the model number - like variations in inserts, etc..

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/masterbuilt-electric-smokehouse-models

Based on that, mine is a 1st gen. 20070211 SS door/with Win, BLK body,1200 Watt HE,RC,W/H, HE access
door, small WCT. So that means black body, REMOTE CONTROL, wheels and handle, heating element access door
small wood chip tray. I'll need to ask my buddy to look for the remote.

The problem with one of the wheels on mine was due to corrosion. The internal inserts are spinning for the two screws. One of the big leveling bolts was the same. It eventually released. I had to cut the heads off the small screws. I didn't see any alternative - it was necessary to remove the wheel mounts to get the back off. Once inside I'll need to figure out how to deal with the screw stubs and the spinning inserts. Anyone with an MES might want to lube or anti-seize the wheel threads. Those screws can rust due to moisture and salt that runs down to the bottom of the smoker, or from the outside.

To replace the rivets, I bought #8-3/4" screws. They seem to be a good fit. I didn't see any advantage to going any longer, since it's just soft foam in there beyond the skin metal. 1/2" might have been okay.

I have good access in the back now, it is just anchored by the inserts at the top. I don't think there is a groove on mine - the panel just rests on the surface. It looks like it will be pretty easy to re-attach.

Given the rust and drippage, etc, I am curious about the bottom - sort of! Not sure if I'll pull it off or not. It could be pretty nasty in there from spills. If there is nasty foam insulation I might want to replace it with fiberglass. I'm not a fan of the polyeurethane foam insulation for this application. It tends to burn near the heating element and then it gives off very toxic fumes. I may cut the darkened section around the element away and re-stuff it.

The heatshrink on the heating element connectors is intact. I'm tempted to leave it alone. But given what others have found, I really should cut it back and check the connection. And of course I want to flip the burner.

I have the original drip pan, with the drain hole, for the bottom. I don't have the oval shaped water bowl, which seems to be part number 910060064 . Is the gen 1 water pan well made? Just wondering if I should order one or try and find something else to replace it.

Do you have any issue using it without water, and grease burning when it hits the hot surface, causing acrid smoke?

 

[redoctobyr]

TallBM, the convection fan seemed to me as though it ought to be a big help to equalize temperatures within the smoker. It's too bad that the results so far may not be quite what you were hoping for.

With that said, the location shown makes me wonder if another spot might help it work better?

If it was pointing up, or down, I wonder if it could help circulate the air vertically through the smoker. There are presumably larger temperature gradients up/down, vs left/right, or front/back.

In theory (if going all-out), two fans could maybe help with movement even more. Say, one in the lower-left corner, blowing up, and one in the top-right corner, blowing down, to help move the air in a circle.

Perhaps you could try putting a deflector in front of the fan where it is, to direct the air upwards?

 

[dr k]

TallBM, the convection fan seemed to me as though it ought to be a big help to equalize temperatures within the smoker. It's too bad that the results so far may not be quite what you were hoping for.

With that said, the location shown makes me wonder if another spot might help it work better?

If it was pointing up, or down, I wonder if it could help circulate the air vertically through the smoker. There are presumably larger temperature gradients up/down, vs left/right, or front/back.

In theory (if going all-out), two fans could maybe help with movement even more. Say, one in the lower-left corner, blowing up, and one in the top-right corner, blowing down, to help move the air in a circle.

Perhaps you could try putting a deflector in front of the fan where it is, to direct the air upwards?

I was thinking about a stirring fan in a vertical smoker may be better on top or bottom. Then with food throughout the smoker nothing may help with the vertical height. Putting that half circle perforated stainless steel, for a 22.5" kettle grill, on the bottom rack with the oval flat bottom water pan on top of the stainless perf gets all therms left and right the same as well as the controller and built in meat probe within a few degrees. It maxes my smoker to 260*f where I leave it. I'll never do anything different. Because it's too consistent and easy. Both my Mes gen 1 40" are identical and I gave my son in law the seasoned one and I just started using my spare that came with a defective controller and misaligned door I had to rehang. The box and door are fine. Pure crap vol. 1 and pure crap vol 2. MB is sending me a new controller. I'm glad I saved my case number from pure crap vol. 1. So after I got a hold of a voice with a pulse it appears things are going to be fine. Customer service is good but I can't seem to steer my self way from defective crap they ship without testing and having to call them. I'm 0-2.
-Kurt

 

[tallbm]

Thanks for the help. I'll hold off on the fan for now.

I found a great thread with more detailed gen info, based on model numbers. There were a lot of variations, probably even more that aren't accounted for in the model number - like variations in inserts, etc..

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/masterbuilt-electric-smokehouse-models

Based on that, mine is a 1st gen. 20070211 SS door/with Win, BLK body,1200 Watt HE,RC,W/H, HE access
door, small WCT. So that means black body, REMOTE CONTROL, wheels and handle, heating element access door
small wood chip tray. I'll need to ask my buddy to look for the remote.

The problem with one of the wheels on mine was due to corrosion. The internal inserts are spinning for the two screws. One of the big leveling bolts was the same. It eventually released. I had to cut the heads off the small screws. I didn't see any alternative - it was necessary to remove the wheel mounts to get the back off. Once inside I'll need to figure out how to deal with the screw stubs and the spinning inserts. Anyone with an MES might want to lube or anti-seize the wheel threads. Those screws can rust due to moisture and salt that runs down to the bottom of the smoker, or from the outside.

To replace the rivets, I bought #8-3/4" screws. They seem to be a good fit. I didn't see any advantage to going any longer, since it's just soft foam in there beyond the skin metal. 1/2" might have been okay.

I have good access in the back now, it is just anchored by the inserts at the top. I don't think there is a groove on mine - the panel just rests on the surface. It looks like it will be pretty easy to re-attach.

Given the rust and drippage, etc, I am curious about the bottom - sort of! Not sure if I'll pull it off or not. It could be pretty nasty in there from spills. If there is nasty foam insulation I might want to replace it with fiberglass. I'm not a fan of the polyeurethane foam insulation for this application. It tends to burn near the heating element and then it gives off very toxic fumes. I may cut the darkened section around the element away and re-stuff it.

The heatshrink on the heating element connectors is intact. I'm tempted to leave it alone. But given what others have found, I really should cut it back and check the connection. And of course I want to flip the burner.

I have the original drip pan, with the drain hole, for the bottom. I don't have the oval shaped water bowl, which seems to be part number 910060064 . Is the gen 1 water pan well made? Just wondering if I should order one or try and find something else to replace it.

Do you have any issue using it without water, and grease burning when it hits the hot surface, causing acrid smoke?

It sounds like you have it mostly under control.  I too would not be so tempted to take the bottom off.

I think that when you check the connectors to the heating element you will find that with a little tug they probably snap.  It doesn't take much.

The water bowl/pan is solid so if you ordered one it would work.  If you have something solid to replace it with then feel free to go that way as well.  I just foil over mine and no issues with it  or any grease burning and I do not put any water in it.  I often use foil pans so I rarely collect any grease on/in the water pan or the drip pan for that matter.  I also foil over the drip pan to easily clean it up as I won't want to collect anything that will burn.

If you foil, replace foil often, and plan for drippings, you shouldn't have any issues :)

 
TallBM, the convection fan seemed to me as though it ought to be a big help to equalize temperatures within the smoker. It's too bad that the results so far may not be quite what you were hoping for.

With that said, the location shown makes me wonder if another spot might help it work better?

If it was pointing up, or down, I wonder if it could help circulate the air vertically through the smoker. There are presumably larger temperature gradients up/down, vs left/right, or front/back.

In theory (if going all-out), two fans could maybe help with movement even more. Say, one in the lower-left corner, blowing up, and one in the top-right corner, blowing down, to help move the air in a circle.

Perhaps you could try putting a deflector in front of the fan where it is, to direct the air upwards?

The fan does help quite a bit but I think it loses some effectiveness when I put in the water pan or I use a foil pan on the bottom shelf.

It still stirs air very well BUT all the other stuff 

I don't like to let the drippings go directly to the heating element or to the drip pan because I don't want to cause a fire/flame situation.

So I use a foil pan to catch the drippings which then reduces the effectiveness some.

The bottom rack is the most effective for maintaining temp and such so putting the foil pan on the bottom rack to catch drippings then reduces effectiveness.

If I don't use the foil pan and I want a heat shield then I put in the water pan.  Well the water pan then reduces effectiveness some.

I gotta figure out a combo that works best because my current approaches don't eliminate effectiveness, but they sure as hell don't give me max effectiveness either, so I'm always playing in the middle.

I chose the fan position based off of convection oven designs and the reported effectiveness of others who have put fan mods in.  

Also the location provides zero interference with the water pan and racks and is about as centered as possible with the flipped heating element.

Based on that bit of research I think the position is probably the best but the smoker design and/or my configuration isn't so well suited for the fan to do it's best job.  It's the best I think that could be done with what is there so I still need to do some evaluation.

I do think the 2 fans would do better.  As as it stands now I'm married to the 1 fan approach and probably not going to add a 2nd fan because I don't want to full with rewiring my controller box to support 2 fans, fixing the existing hole and making 2 more holes, 2 motors, and everything else involved with supporting 2 more fans.

If I were doing it from square one I would take the 2 fan approach and figure out the best design for it all.  I'm just too far down the road now to care with messing with it so I'm going to work on maximizing the 1 fan effectiveness with pans.  When I can leave the pans out of the equation it does super well, to the point where I get crispy skin on chicken!!! :)

I was thinking about a stirring fan in a vertical smoker may be better on top or bottom. Then with food throughout the smoker nothing may help with the vertical height. Putting that half circle perforated stainless steel, for a 22.5" kettle grill, on the bottom rack with the oval flat bottom water pan on top of the stainless perf gets all therms left and right the same as well as the controller and built in meat probe within a few degrees. It maxes my smoker to 260*f where I leave it. I'll never do anything different. Because it's too consistent and easy. Both my Mes gen 1 40" are identical and I gave my son in law the seasoned one and I just started using my spare that came with a defective controller and misaligned door I had to rehang. The box and door are fine. Pure crap vol. 1 and pure crap vol 2. MB is sending me a new controller. I'm glad I saved my case number from pure crap vol. 1. So after I got a hold of a voice with a pulse it appears things are going to be fine. Customer service is good but I can't seem to steer my self way from defective crap they ship without testing and having to call them. I'm 0-2.
-Kurt

Man sounds like some problems you are working through.  I'm sure you'll get it all sorted out.  

As I mention in the previous bit of info. I think the fan position I chose is likely the best spot for it in the MES.

If I were designing a smoker with a stirring fan I would have built the fan in the back of the smoker like convection ovens position their fans.  The convection oven design takes into account racks, food, etc. for stirring air where my mod does the best it can for positioning with the MES design.  As it stands the fan causes no interference what so ever with racks, water pan, heating element, and causes minimal interference with the heating element panel on the back of the smoker.

In the bottom above the heating element, the fan can immediately work on stirring the heat as it is generated.  Also it can work on stirring the smoke right as it comes into the smoker from my mailbox mod.  That's a win-win.

If I were to do a 2nd fan at this point I think I would pit it on the left side under the bottom rack so I had perpendicular stirring and 1 fan would immediately handle the heat and smoke and the 2nd fan would assist in stirring air with less hindrance from the water pan and racks.  At that point I think the 2 fans would provide max performance for the MES design.

I'll let someone else tackle that 2 fan approach though.  Currently I am satisfied with my 1 fan and trying to figure out how to maximize it rather then jumping to working with 2 fans to figure out  :)

It is all very interesting stuff to try and figure out on the way to making the best smoked food possible :)

 

[redoctobyr]

Flowing past the racks and food certainly seems like it would be a challenge. I wonder about ducting the fan's output, within the smoker? Pull the air from up high, for instance, run it through a small metal duct, and dump it at the bottom of the smoker. Or vice-versa.

You could still move the air from one location to another, while being less susceptible to blockage by trays/food. I suppose the ducting could go outside of the smoker, too.

Not proposing this as a straightforward option, certainly. It just gets me wondering about ways to try and get around the problem of the air movement being obstructed.

 

[tallbm]

 
Flowing past the racks and food certainly seems like it would be a challenge. I wonder about ducting the fan's output, within the smoker? Pull the air from up high, for instance, run it through a small metal duct, and dump it at the bottom of the smoker. Or vice-versa.

You could still move the air from one location to another, while being less susceptible to blockage by trays/food. I suppose the ducting could go outside of the smoker, too.

Not proposing this as a straightforward option, certainly. It just gets me wondering about ways to try and get around the problem of the air movement being obstructed.

I totally understand, its just a "thinking out loud" kind of discussion.

When I installed this I went with a fan that should be able to easily handle the Cubic Feat of air per Minute (CFM) for the the MES40.  I think it's at least doing 150 CFM but it's hard to find details for that fan blade.  When I look at other 4" fan blades they range from 150 CFM up and I know I'm spinning it good and fast as well.  

HOWEVER, that is in a perfect world without trays and pans and food in the way and with a device that was designed with that fan in mind.  I think that going to a hardcore CFM like 800+ would brute force the air stirring BUT again this is just a guess.  

My fan may be doing really good and I just don't know because I have no decent way of measuring it's performance so other then I have noticed my cook times have been reduced since I started using it and I am able to get crispy chicken skin if I remove the water pan and go with minimal foil pan obstruction :)

It is very curious :) 

 

[smokaroma]

I hope everyone is planning a great smoky weekend!

You may recall I had the back access opened up.. I haven't had time to dive in. Today, I did. Or rather, I am.... I just popped inside to take a brief break and gird my loans. I could use some liquid courage right about now, but I have too much to do.

Oh, it is so nasty. The foam on the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of the smoker is pretty badly burned. Often it doesn't look burned, but the foam in contact with the back interior wall is burned.

The smell of the burned polyurethane foam is horrendous. You know that burnt smell of cheap stuff from china? Like a harbor freight store, etc. That is the smell. To me it smells like cancer. A burnt smell is not entirely surprising. Poly foam is really bad stuff beyond a certain temp, cyanide fumes and all that. I just didn't expect it to match *that* smell.

So I am carefully scraping it off. I can't get to the bottom of the smoker. I have been unable to remove one of the feet bolts. The insert that retains the foot bolt inside the smoker is turning. The foam on the bottom of the smoker is also badly burned - probably the worst of any of it. I would really like to remove it. It's also probably grease saturated.

I want this project DONE, especially now that it has entered the nasty phase. When removing foam I need to be careful around the wires and heating element connector box.

I did cut off the heatshrink from the heater connectors. They look pretty sad. I'm hoping I can remove and replace them without damaging the element.

I have been taking photos, so eventually the gory details will be revealed. If only I could share the smell with you..

I do wonder why the mfgs use foam for insulation rather than fiberglass. Maybe because the chassis for these consumer smokers are made by companies that normally build refrigerators, and they are only tooled up for foam insulation? The core of my Bradley is almost the same as my outdoor bar fridge.

 

[tallbm]

I hope everyone is planning a great smoky weekend!

You may recall I had the back access opened up.. I haven't had time to dive in. Today, I did. Or rather, I am.... I just popped inside to take a brief break and gird my loans. I could use some liquid courage right about now, but I have too much to do.

Oh, it is so nasty. The foam on the bottom 1/3 to 1/2 of the smoker is pretty badly burned. Often it doesn't look burned, but the foam in contact with the back interior wall is burned.

The smell of the burned polyurethane foam is horrendous. You know that burnt smell of cheap stuff from china? Like a harbor freight store, etc. That is the smell. To me it smells like cancer. A burnt smell is not entirely surprising. Poly foam is really bad stuff beyond a certain temp, cyanide fumes and all that. I just didn't expect it to match *that* smell.

So I am carefully scraping it off. I can't get to the bottom of the smoker. I have been unable to remove one of the feet bolts. The insert that retains the foot bolt inside the smoker is turning. The foam on the bottom of the smoker is also badly burned - probably the worst of any of it. I would really like to remove it. It's also probably grease saturated.

I want this project DONE, especially now that it has entered the nasty phase. When removing foam I need to be careful around the wires and heating element connector box.

I did cut off the heatshrink from the heater connectors. They look pretty sad. I'm hoping I can remove and replace them without damaging the element.

I have been taking photos, so eventually the gory details will be revealed. If only I could share the smell with you..

I do wonder why the mfgs use foam for insulation rather than fiberglass. Maybe because the chassis for these consumer smokers are made by companies that normally build refrigerators, and they are only tooled up for foam insulation? The core of my Bradley is almost the same as my outdoor bar fridge.

Man this sounds like an undertaking.

I think they use the foam because it gives rigidity to the body with little effort on their part.

Let us know how it keeps coming along :)