Jerky Making Issues

[meatman1405]

I'm making beef bites using 80/20 ground beef and using an industrial oven with 170 being the lowest temp it can go. I've made several batches and keep having the same issue with it being too greasy and not dry/tough enough. I make my mix and roll it out on a cookie sheet and cut into strips, then place on racks in the oven at 170 for about an hour or so. I plan on making another batch next week and this was what I was planning to do...

*I plan on turning off the heat pre-maturely and let it sit with the fans running

* I was going to mix the meat and spices for twice as long to hopefully get better binding

* Rolling it thinner

If anyone has any advice, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[donr]

Use your own thermometer and cycle the heat manually.

Try a small amount with 85/15 to compare.

 

[mneeley490]

I used 95/5 ground sirloin last time. It seemed to have about the same amount of greasiness (which is to say, not much) you'd find in a store-bought product.

 

[timstalltaletav]

I actually just had a similar thing happen with my caseless snack sticks. I had to put them back into the dehydrator for about 4 hours beyond where I thought they needed to go. Then I wiped them off with a paper towel and put them in the fridge overnight uncovered. The result was spot on. Not greasy and good bite to them. I have them in an paper bag in the fridge now and they seem to get better day by day.

 

[jerky nut]

Meatman, using 80/20 you are going to get grease.    At 170 degrees  for 1 hour you are killing bacteria but it does nothing for the loss of moisture.   To get the dry and toughness you must remove the moisture from the meat.  Leaving the oven door open a crack will allow some moisture to escape but it will take more than one hour to dry  jerky to your desired texture this way, also the longer you dry it the less grease will be present.

 

[butcherfamily]

Jerky is normally not made with that much fat content. traditional jerky is made with very lean cuts of meat and with very little marbling. Eye of round, london broil etc.  There is no reason to be using that much fat content. The whole idea is tenderizing the meat with the curing process.  Just use much more lean meat.  The fat is the bane of good jerky.

Why are you using ground anyway? Some limitation?

 

[meatman1405]

I'm working for a meat company. As you probably are aware the price of whole muscle is very expensive and my company wants me to use ground beef to make beef bites.

 

[meatman1405]

So should I leave it open when I first put the meat in or after an hour?

 

[jerky nut]

I would crack the door right away and bake it for 1 1/2 hours.  remove a sample piece and see where you are from their.  It's just like bacon it will cook a little more and then stiffen up as it cools.   If you added cure to your meat you could let the pieces air dry  naturally a few days after you remove them from oven.   Working for a meat company you might want to check  with your FDA regulations to see if you can let them air dry. but letting the oven fan run as they cool down will also aid in moisture removal.

 

[sqwib]

Lean meat
Cure
Dry don't cook

 

[jerky nut]

SQUIB, I left this site once because of people giving bad advice when I try to help some one. I came back just to check things out and saw some one needed help.  And here we go again.  Yes cure, but  Yes Cook!   To make jerky  safe you must bring the jerky to 165 degrees to kill pathogens, parasites and bacteria that cures will not take care of. Get a book and read up on the science of meat curing  and preserving and how to do it safely.

 

[pc farmer]

 

[smokin' burt]

meatman,

Sorry, but I personally don't care for the taste or texture of ground meat jerky. I usually only make venison jerky and I prefer to slice muscle meats such as the large portions fileted off the shoulder or lean sections of the hind quarter. I have used back strap, but prefer to eat that as single sliced steaks or medallions. I remove any and all fat as that's the first thing to spoil and I prefer to dehydrate my jerky meat as opposed to cooking in the oven (or smoker) but if you're going to use ground meat for jerky, do as Jerky Nut suggests and cook it to 165-170 degrees. Any time you grind meat, you are incorporating bacteria from the outside of the meat to the inside so a thorough cooking is a must do.  You should use the appropriate amount of instacure #1 if you're going to do it in a smoker.

SMB

 

[daveomak]

SQUIB, I left this site once because of people giving bad advice when I try to help some one. I came back just to check things out and saw some one needed help.  And here we go again.  Yes cure, but  Yes Cook!   To make jerky  safe you must bring the jerky to 165 degrees to kill pathogens, parasites and bacteria that cures will not take care of. Get a book and read up on the science of meat curing  and preserving and how to do it safely.

Jerkynut..... Morning..... You didn't read enough about killing pathogens etc.... Pasteurization of meats can be done at many temperatures... If one uses cure or not, meat can be pasteurized at 130 for 112 minutes and it is safe to eat.... Cure, nitrite, is used when meats are smoked in a low oxygen environment... which can be a breeding ground for botulism....

SQWIB is correct..... Use lean meat because fat can go rancid..... add cure as a precaution and flavor and coloring.... Dry at a low temp, so as to reduce the fat melting.... and reduce the Aw to an acceptable level...

If you dehydrator runs at 140 ish, as most dehydrators do, once the meat is at 140, which may take many hours due to evaporative transpiration, (the stall effect), then it needs to be held there until pasteurization is complete..... Since that is an unknown period of time without lab testing, and the meat is pretty much good forever at 140, exceed the time you think will be required to complete the pasteurization and drying process.... The meat will be fine for many hours as it dries out to an acceptable Aw level and the salt will keep any pathogens at bay, as will the nitrite....

So, think about the above, and possibly think about an apology... I've read stuff you have put on the forum and in my opinion, you could use just a tad more reading up on meat curing and pathogens etc.... You are not the expert on this forum.....



Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min
144 (62.2) 5 min
145 (62.8) 4 min

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

 

[sqwib]

Jerkynut..... Morning..... You didn't read enough about killing pathogens etc.... Pasteurization of meats can be done at many temperatures... If one uses cure or not, meat can be pasteurized at 130 for 112 minutes and it is safe to eat.... Cure, nitrite, is used when meats are smoked in a low oxygen environment... which can be a breeding ground for botulism....

SQWIB is correct..... Use lean meat because fat can go rancid..... add cure as a precaution and flavor and coloring.... Dry at a low temp, so as to reduce the fat melting.... and reduce the Aw to an acceptable level...

If you dehydrator runs at 140 ish, as most dehydrators do, once the meat is at 140, which may take many hours due to evaporative transpiration, (the stall effect), then it needs to be held there until pasteurization is complete..... Since that is an unknown period of time without lab testing, and the meat is pretty much good forever at 140, exceed the time you think will be required to complete the pasteurization and drying process.... The meat will be fine for many hours as it dries out to an acceptable Aw level and the salt will keep any pathogens at bay, as will the nitrite....

So, think about the above, and possibly think about an apology... I've read stuff you have put on the forum and in my opinion, you could use just a tad more reading up on meat curing and pathogens etc.... You are not the expert on this forum.....



Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min
144 (62.2) 5 min
145 (62.8) 4 min

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

Dave, thanks for sharing, I was curious... the chart I have was published 2001

• "February 27, 2001, FSIS published a proposed rule ``Performance Standards for the Production of Processed Meat and Poultry Products'' (66 FR 12590)."

I have the same numbers as you but was looking for an updated version, from this

• "With the 1999 final rule,  “Performance Standards for the Production of Certain Meat and Poultry Products” (64 FR  732),"

I couldn't find the (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2). chart that you have, I would like to have a copy for my records.

Thanks Again.

Maybe Sous Vide for pasteurization then dry

 

[daveomak]

That chart is from Baldwin's web page... http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html

I don't think it needs to be sous vide first, but, that's a possibility.... As I read somewhere, dried pathogens can go into a "suspended animation" of sorts and then be "immune" to somewhat higher temps... Even a short trip into a 180 temp zone for 15 minutes then a temp drop to 140......

But then again, sous vide meat sits below 130 for hours and hours and stuff seems to get killed... I, personally, would not sous vide at 130... Maybe start at 145 for 10 minutes then lower the temp... just to get a jump on the temps...

Even though this stuff is scientifically proven..... I'm an old dog and don't learn new stuff without days or weeks investigating it....

 

[jerky nut]

  First off I didn't come here to fight.  I dropped in to check the site out and saw someone needing help.  Neither Dave or SQIBB offered help or advice to Meatman.  But when I offer help then the forum police want to come out of the wood work and attack me. I left no bad or dangerous  advice for him.  If either of you read Meatmans post he was making beef patties in his oven that didn't get below 170 and was having issues with grease and using 80/20 ground beef which was the only meat available to use.    SQUIBB if you have all this knowledge why would you leave a comment like.

Lean meat
Cure
Dry don't cook.   Had you made an attempt to help Meatman I would have never left a negative reply to your post.  So sorry no apology.

 If I wanted to leave half a page of info from a book verbatim I would have but their was no need to.

Dave.  " Evening"  shame on you. I never claimed to be an expert and I never gave bad advice. For you to make a claim like that about me is wrong. I have nothing to prove here just wanted to help and maybe find out some new techniques, flavor enhancers and other things the same reason you are here.

 Good day.

 

[sqwib]

Dave, just to be clear. The temps and times posted are once the internal temp reaches a specified temp, then the countdown begins. Is this correct?The OP looks to be cooking his jerky when it only needs to be brought to a higher temperature for a designated time.... then the lower temp for DRYING can take place. To bring a thin piece of whole or ground to the safe desired internal temp should be minimal.I am not an expert in this and just wanted to clear all of this up for the benefit of the OP

 

[daveomak]

Right on..... It is the internal temperature of the meat.... Once the center of the meat, gets to your desired temperature, start the clock..... I ALWAYS add extra time just in the event a portion of the meat took longer to get up to temp...

 

[sqwib]

Right on..... It is the internal temperature of the meat.... Once the center of the meat, gets to your desired temperature, start the clock..... I ALWAYS add extra time just in the event a portion of the meat took longer to get up to temp...

OK, another point, in your opinion do you think it would be a wise choice for Meatman to start his jerky with a Cracked Door at 170°?

For one I don't think that would be a good idea as the temp in the oven may possibly fluctuate, however I am not an expert on thermodynamics. What are your thoughts?

 If Meatman is still following this thread, my reccomendation for his current setup is to ;

• use leaner meat 95/5
• thin out meat to 1/8" - 3/16"
• use proper amounts of cure
• Turn oven to lowest setting.(170° in his case)
• make a small meatball or meat cube out of the jerky meat, probe this and use this as a gauge to check internal temperature.
• Close the door
• once internal temp of the meat ball is 160-165° hold this temp for 5 minutes
• crack the door and continue to dry at lower temps, possibly cycling the oven.

Is everyone OK with this?

There are far better ways to do this, but this is taking into consideration, Meatmans setup