Hot and Fast Brisket (5 Hours Total!)

[cksteele]

i know legendary Texas BBQ pitmaster john mueller does the hot and fast method and people rave about his BBQ brisket though from what i understand he doesn't inject hes got a shack in georgetown texas

 

[bdskelly]

I'm late on this... work has gotten in the way. I certainly understand the process if you're in need of producing product for sale.
My circumstances are different. My hobby feeds my family Sunday dinner. So time really isn't an issue. In fact I enjoy the hours of "fiddling".
Interesting method though. When I get into a time crunch I'll give it a try! B

 

[bregent]

I did a hot fast brisket today for the first time and it came out great. 17.5 lb USDA Prime trimmed to 13lbs. Seasoned with salt and pepper last night. Put a light dusting of Black Ops on this morning, and onto the pellet grill running at 180F at 8:30AM. Wanted to start off low to get some smoke on it. At 9:30AM raised the temp to 300F. At noon left to take the dog on the trails so lowered to 275 just in case. The walk took longer than expected and I got back at 2PM. Ran up to check the meat and it was done! In fact, it could have been done 30-60 minutes earlier. Separated flat and point, wrapped in butcher paper and into cooler for a few hours until guests arrived. Sliced up the flat to serve tonight, put the point in the fridge for tomorrow. The flat was pretty moist, but I think could have been much better if I had gotten back sooner. The flavor was terrific. One reason I've avoided hot and fast was because I heard you don't get a good bark, but that certainly was not the case. I will definitely do it again but will stick around to monitor more closely. I'll add pics of the point when I slice it up tomorrow.

 

[travisty]

Wow, thanks guys, those are some great looking Hot and Fast briskets, guess ill have to pull out my last reserved brisket and go ahead and try the hot and fast without an injections to see how I like it! You have giving me the confidence to not worry that it'll be a waste.
BREGENT, looks like you didn't have to worry about that bark after all! That's the same thing I found with mine, though I did add a charcoal product to my rub to darken it a bit, it was still plenty "barky" without it, so ill probably drop or lessen the charcoal going forward.

Like some mentioned, yeah my product is for a resale purpose so the things like injection and the charcoal in the rub helps me to produce a more consistent product, and have a better guarantee of juicy and attractive meat. I don't consume much injected meat myself, but I don't mind it that much either.

Got a little 12 pound Prime Packer in the freezer ill pull out to start thawing for this weekend, ill try it with no injection at the same 5 hour timeframe, and let Y'all know how it turns out.

 

[jond36]

Any word on that prime packer?

 

[kam59]

We cook hot and fast at competitions and at home. 275°/325° is the norm for us on brisket and ribs. We cook primes at competition and inject to prolong the moisture retention once sliced. At home no injection and the briskets turn out great in fact doing a hot and fast select will yield a better product because of the lower fat content. Going low and slow on a big ole select will often yield a dried out flat.
This is a hot and fast 16 lb choice total cook time was 6 hours with a two hour rest.

 

[travisty]

Any word on that prime packer?

Yes sir! And I will upload some photos later, but right now, my computer is not cooperating.

So this weekend I pulled out a 11.6 pound prime whole packer. Trimmed off probably about 2 pounds, so it was pretty much my competition trim where there is very little fat remaining.
This time, I did not inject with a commercial injection, but I did inject a small amount (about 16 OZ total) of beef broth, with a bit of seasoning, and a few dashes of a chipotle hot sauce. Rubbed it down with a pretty basic SPOG rub.

Fired the Yoder YS640 up to 350, and on she went, sitting in a shallow aluminum whole pan. At the 3 hour mark, I probed it and wrapped it with some of the same injection juice and some butter. Temp at wrapping time was about 168. At just 1 hour and 20 minutes into the wrap my 200 degree alarm went off. She was between 198 and 204 and probe tender.

Put her into the cambro wrapped up for about 2.5 hours before it was time to eat.

The result:
Still fairly juicy, and tender, but pretty far off as the one with the commercial/phosphate type injection from last week. Because I basically used the same rub, the flavor was pretty much the same, which was actually surprising as the butcher BBQ injection can be pretty strong. The meat was a bit more dry overall, and the bend and pull tests were not top notch like the one last week was.
She still looked and tasted great, and to the family and friends that had it, it was "the best brisket they have ever had" but to me it was a bit shy of others I've done.

The conclusion:
I will continue to do my 5 hour hot and fast, less trimmed and injected with butcher BBQ Prime Brisket for all catering, and competition events going forward with small tweaks here and there; however, when I am doing at home cooks, I will go old school low and slow with no injection, as I can turn out a perfect brisket that way, and why fix it if it isn't broken!

That being said, I am always open to learning and trying new things, so ill keep experimenting and tweaking as I go, and as I'm sure most of us do.

 

[jond36]

Sounds great! I will try the 5 hour burn. I know its been debated many times, but how does the pan work out for you? Does it impact the bark at all or make the bottom soggy?

 

[troutman]

I like you concluding remarks travisty. I'm not big into Kosmos Q or Butchers BBQ because of the plethora of chemical additives and MSG. I have purchased some Sodium Triphosphate and do want to see what the moisture retention is like after using it. Since I'm still basically a backyard guy, I too will stay with the low and slow approach. The faster method may be better in a pinch so thanks for sharing all that with us.

 

[travisty]

Sounds great! I will try the 5 hour burn. I know its been debated many times, but how does the pan work out for you? Does it impact the bark at all or make the bottom soggy?

I have been VERY against the pan idea for a long time, just sort of stressing about it affecting the bark and/or smoke flavor, but after seeing like most of the competition teams I compete with do it, I decided to try it out a few times, figuring it cant be that bad. So far I have done it one 4 briskets, and they have all worked out perfectly fine. the main benefit being the cleanup I think rather than anything to do with the cook. I always cook my briskets fat cap down anyway, so really there isn't a bark concern there no matter what. Also, in competition BBQ you don't want too much smoke flavor, so maybe it even helps, but I don't really know.

I have always cooked my competition chicken in pans, but I think that's pretty standard, and you're obviously not worried about "bark" there.

I haven't tried it yet on pork butt, but like I said, many of my friends do it with pork butts too with great results. Again, I think the main benefit is cleanup, and again, I have always cooked my pork butts fat cap down anyway, so there isn't a bark issue there.

The main reason I don't think I can do it wholesale is that when I'm doing catering stuff, there will never be enough room for a bunch of panned items in the smoker, but for the single brisket, not having to clean my grates on a lazy sunday afternoon was nice.

Honestly, I think other people may have stronger opinions here, but I'm not "against" the pan method one way or another at this point. Just makes cleanup and transport a heck of a lot easier, and o don't honestly think it affects anything other than the fact that all your brisket au jus will be safe and sound.

 

[travisty]

Alright, as promised, here are the pictures form the last cook. Like I said everything looked great, and it was a great brisket, but of course we are our toughest judges, and particularly in this case, I was intentionally being real picky. ENJOY!

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

I mostly followed this method today and had fantastic results. Picked up a small 8lb packer, it was trimmed by the grocer. They always sell some untrimmed and then bump the cost on the trimmed. Well the trimmed are on sale and the 8lb brisket was cheaper than several of the chuck roasts they had. It was a choice brisket.

Injected with Kosmos, rubbed, and put it in a pan in the kamado at 350. At around 3 hours it was closer to 170 in the flat when I went to wrap. I looked at it and wasn't pleased by the lack of bark at that point so I just left it uncovered. I ended up pulling it off at 5.5 hours in and 203 in the flat. The temp dropped closer to 300 for the last bit of the cook.

Took it inside and put foil over the top of the pan and let it sit. Almost dropped the thing in the driveway before i took it to a friends house. Total rest time was about 45 minutes in the foiled pan. The result was the best brisket I have made. I am still new so I have only made a handful, but this was great. The flat was still moist and tender for once.

We had some sliced pieces from the flat and chewed on some of the point. The point was out of this world. Then after the sliced flat had dried a bit from sitting out I chopped it up. I threw that chopped meat in the pan that was used for the cook with all of the drippings and burnt pieces. Scraped that around and that is some damn good chopped beef.

The leftovers from the point will be going into a chili tomorrow. If I didn't make an effort to save the point it would have been eaten. Thanks for introducing me to this method. It worked well.

 

[mrad]

I tried this method Saturday with little success. I'm guessing part of the issue may have been with the size of the cut. I stopped at my local supermarket to buy a flat (raincheck for $3.49 lb). When I got their, they only had partials. The meat dept said they were out of season now. The biggest one I could find was just over two pounds. I mixed 3/4 cups of beef broth with 3 grams of phosphate and injected. Threw it in the smoker at 160 for 45 minutes and then turned temp up to 325. Covered the foil pan at about 170 and uncovered again at 190m hoping to get some bark. This thing turned out as dry as any brisket I have cooked.

 

[travisty]

I tried this method Saturday with little success. I'm guessing part of the issue may have been with the size of the cut. I stopped at my local supermarket to buy a flat (raincheck for $3.49 lb). When I got their, they only had partials. The meat dept said they were out of season now. The biggest one I could find was just over two pounds. I mixed 3/4 cups of beef broth with 3 grams of phosphate and injected. Threw it in the smoker at 160 for 45 minutes and then turned temp up to 325. Covered the foil pan at about 170 and uncovered again at 190m hoping to get some bark. This thing turned out as dry as any brisket I have cooked.

Oh no! sorry to hear that. Yeah, sounds like the size was probably the main issue. Really hard to keep moisture in that.
For me personally I wont even cook full flats, I prefer the whole packer and feel like it gives me more control over the outcome, plus in my business and competition I never have a need to cook just one or the other.
The only way I've personally been able to get a small flat only to come out tender is to braise it. I've done a few flat only cooks with bigger fattier flats with good success. Again, that's me, I'm sure other cooks have methods and skills to do it.

 

[mrad]

I was hoping they had a full flat that usually runs 5-7lbs at my local to give a test run without having to run to coscto to get the full packer. along with me only having a few hours for the cook. I should have known better, but wanted to try this method, and against my better judgement I purchased the smaller cut.

 

[mrad]

How long prior to the cook does the brisket need to be injected?
I think I going to try this on Sunday before the football game with a 16lb packer that has been wet aging for 30 days. Hope to have it on the smoker by 11:30 and give it a one hour rest before slicing.

 

[kam59]

You can inject right up to going on the cooker. For comps I inject about 10 hours before but that is because I am pre-prepping my meat Friday night. We did one the other day and injected it while the cooker was coming up to temp.

 

[mrad]

Thanks Kam,

One more question. How much broth would I want to inject into the brisket with the phosphate for a 16lber

 

[kam59]

I use commercial injections so I am not sure on the broth. I do inject 16 ounces into a 16/18 lb.