Hobart 512 Slicer Bolt Broke ??

[JckDanls 07]

ok guys.. just purchased a used 512 slicer and tore it down completely for cleaning (It's pretty nasty) .. What I found is... looking at this parts diagram.. https://www.bakedeco.com/images/manuals/512-manual.pdf
on page 11 (gauge plate and indexing mech.).. Part #5 (1/4" pan head screw) looks like it screws into the end of part #2 (slide rod) with part #'s 3 and 4 going on it... The bolt in mine is stuck down in the base housing that the slide tube goes in... in the end of the slide tube looks to be the broken off bolt and a dimple in it like somebody has tried to drill it out.. but it's probably a stainless bolt and they had a hard time drilling it and quit... I think this bolt holds in (like a set screw) part # 6 (roller)... I just pulled it out with pliers as nothing was holding it in.. the spring (#3) and cap plug (#4, which I don't believe was even on there) were on the shaft loosely and just sliding back and forth ... I can't figure out how to get the Pan Head bolt out of the base housing... Please don't tell me you have to take the Logo/Emblem (that's glued on) on top of the base off... I can't believe you would have to do that... Hopefully somebody has torn their's apart before and can help me out on this...

Thanks in advance

 

[oddegan]

Can you get a picture of it?

 

[kit s]

Jck
Might try this site. https://butchersupplycompany.com/
Ed Perryman helped me with my old Globe. He has a vast knowledge of slicers.
kit

 

[oddegan]

Looking at the print I agree it probably functioned as a set screw. 1st thing I would try is a left hand drill bit. If the stud isn't tight against anything the only thing holding it would be corrosion or burrs. A left hand bit can spin those right out without having to actually cut. Use the largest bit that will fit in the hole, probably a 3/16. Worse case is you need to grab a tap and chase the threads again.

 

[daveomak]

Try Kano Sili-Kroil... It penetrates stuff to 0.0002 or something like that... I used it on some tapered pins on my AR... 15 seconds and they popped right out... It's a few bucks but has saved me a lot more than it costs....

 

[indaswamp]

Best penetrating oil on the planet is 50/50 acetone and ATF transmission fluid. It is even better than Kroil....

 

[daveomak]

Best penetrating oil on the planet is 50/50 acetone and ATF transmission fluid. It is even better than Kroil....

Yep... You're correct... I checked U-Tube and MANY testers showed ATF and Acetone beats all the penetrants, HANDS DOWN...
1 disclaimer, they didn't test Sili Kroil... Aero's newest Kroil.... but, I'm willing to bet, ATF beats that also...

 

[DanMcG]

PM LanceR, He restores equipment and might have some insight.

 

[indaswamp]

Yep... You're correct... I checked U-Tube and MANY testers showed ATF and Acetone beats all the penetrants, HANDS DOWN...
1 disclaimer, they didn't test Sili Kroil... Aero's newest Kroil.... but, I'm willing to bet, ATF beats that also...

Dave, I save the ATF when I do a transmission flush. 3 qts. goes a long way when making penetrating oil. It is a good use of used transmission fluid.....

 

[JckDanls 07]

ok.. thanks Feller's .. Dan... I'll do that, thanks ... I put it all back together the way they had it... found a copper feral they had put on a bolt (#9)... don't know where the hell it goes...if they put under the gear (#8) or on top... tried it without the feral and it wouldn't turn... somethings just not right.. when the gauge/indexer is all the way in to be flush with the blade (it's suppose to cover the edge of blade for safety purposes) the bottom covers the blade but the top of the backstop (what I call it) is behind the blade about an 1/8"... I believe it's all bent up because it doesn't slide/travel in and out very easy at all... goes out ok but no way in hell I can turn the dial and it slides in on it's own...

 

[DanMcG]

Keith, I have a 512 in the garage, if I can help with pic's without having to tear it to far down I'll be happy to.
Only issue I got is it's about 20 degrees out there.

 

[JckDanls 07]

ok.. I went back into it and found out why they put the copper feral and a washer on that bolt.. They had a 5/16 x 2" bolt in it.. so the bolt was bottoming out in the housing... they were trying to use them as a spacer ... it calls for a 1 3/4" bolt... so I cut the bolt down (stores to far away) to proper length and that got that deal straightened out... now the problem is the slide rods (#2)... I took that gear (#8) back out so nothing is holding the slide tubes from sliding freely.. this is where the problem lies... they are hard to get started in the slide holes I see the flat bar that is welded to the two slide tubes has a bend in... There's no way in hell you would ever be able to get those 2 tubes lined back up perfect so they don't bind when trying to slide it in and out ...

 

[LanceR]

Keith, I have a 512 in the garage, if I can help with pic's without having to tear it to far down I'll be happy to.
Only issue I got is it's about 20 degrees out there.

Gee, Dan. It's 52 degrees here in our corner of of the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in North Carolina....and that's part of why we don't live in Central New York anymore.


OK, Kieth. I saw and read your lead post early this morning and after a while my head started to hurt and as I had only had one cup of coffee I put it in the "Too Hard" box for the day.

My head was hurting because reading and finding things again in the one long run on paragraph was hard enough but it would really help if you used the names from the part list for things and listed them with the number and item number I.E. "the 1/4-20 screw that passes through the plug-cap (pg 11, items 4 & 5) is broken off and I need help in figuring how to remove the broken part.". I know that what you wrote made sense to you but it took me a while to come to a good guess of what you were saying.

I usually stick to the bigger 2000 series and similar heavy duty slicers but I have a 512, my first one ever, sitting on the workbench so at least I have one to look at. I haven't had to tear down the indexing mechanism so this is a bit of the blind leading the blind but here goes....

First, one of the better sources for good slicer, bowl chopper, tenderizer etc parts and advice is oldhobartslicerparts.com in Vero Beach, Florida. They cover a lot more than Hobarts, too. I' done business with them several times and they have been top notch.

If you look at their Hobart 512 parts page you'll find the screw and cap plug http://www.oldhobartslicerparts.com/catalog/item/7171633/9910749.htm

The plug-cap is threaded internally for the 1/4-20 screw and as far as I can see, externally threaded too as it has a cross slot for inserting it into the slide rod bore. The purpose of the screw seems to be to guide the spring and to act as a stop for the slide rod motion to keep it from indexing the gauge plate past "zero".

The plug-cap has a shoulder to center and retain the upper end of the slide rod spring (Pg 11, item 3) and as the cross slot is in the side with the shoulder I suspect that it is installed with a hollow tubular tool with a pair of little tabs on the end to engage the slot and work over the shaft of the screw. I also suspect that when you screw the plug-cap out of the slide rod bore the broken portion of the screw will come with it.

So, if all my guessing and surmising are correct you'll need to fabricate that tool as best you can and back the plug out. I'd call Old Hobart Slicer Parts and ask for Ed to maybe get better advice on how to proceed though. And as inexpensive as that plug-cap and screw are I'd order them so you know how to make your plug-cap extraction/installation tool.

I suspect the indexing gear arm roller's pin (pg 11, item 6) was either press fit into the slide rod or is intended to be retained by spring pressure alone. Are there any signs of grooves in the roller pin to engage the spring or maybe signs of old threads on it?

If by "feral" you are actually referring to the indexing gear assembly sleeve (pg 11, item 7) is is intended to be inserted into the indexing gear assembly bore hole in the machine base. Then mate the gear assembly and the self tapping hex washer head screw goes up through the sleeve to secure the whole mess to the machine base.

The gauge plate should be parallel to the blade in the "closed" position and should be about 1/32" from the edge of the blade. If the gauge plate isn't parallel to the blade then something is out of sorts. Laying a straight edge in both directions diagonally across the gauge plate will tell you if the plate itself is bent. An excessive gap between the gauge plate and the blade is easily fixed by loosening the two cap screws (pg 11. item 24) on the back of the gauge plate and sliding the plate closer to the blade.

I hope that all this rambling helps...... Don't be afraid to shoot me another PM with your phone number if you want to talk.

 

[LanceR]

ok.. I went back into it and found out why they put the copper feral and a washer on that bolt.. They had a 5/16 x 2" bolt in it.. so the bolt was bottoming out in the housing... they were trying to use them as a spacer ... it calls for a 1 3/4" bolt... so I cut the bolt down (stores to far away) to proper length and that got that deal straightened out... now the problem is the slide rods (#2)... I took that gear (#8) back out so nothing is holding the slide tubes from sliding freely.. this is where the problem lies... they are hard to get started in the slide holes I see the flat bar that is welded to the two slide tubes has a bend in... There's no way in hell you would ever be able to get those 2 tubes lined back up perfect so they don't bind when trying to slide it in and out ...

Well you already arrived at a partial solution while I was typing. Good catch! I should have checked for updates before posting my version of War and Peace. Hopefully you can tweak the slide rod and spacer assembly back into shape.

EDIT: With the oddball "repair" they did it's no wonder my brain cell wasn't grasping what you were describing. When I looked under my 512 and couldn't really figure out what you were describing and couldn't even figure out a way for them to have put a bolt in the spacer they had made that I mistook for the sleeve.

As the broken screw that you have acts as a travel stop for the slide rod assembly I'd guess the bent rod assembly happened when the slicer was dropped at some point in time and the screw was broken at the same time, too. Now the big question is; does the broken screw come out with the plug-cap or will that serial number data plate have to come off.

 

[JckDanls 07]

ok.. Looked at it some more tonight .. made some progress... good and bad .. actually the bad made it good ..

I'm assuming the plate (flatbar) that holds the two slide rods (pg11,#2) together are tack welded ?? as these are ... or should I say "were" .. I broke (by accident) the tack welds on the slide tube that goes in the sleeve (pg.11 #1).. the other tube that has the spring, plug-cap and bolt is still tack welded to the plate... I said what the hell... lets put it together and see what happens ... So holding the loose slide tube in place I tried turning the indexer... worked like new.. slid in and out easy... One thing I've noticed is... All kinds of fine tuning capabilities.. for example.. Tell me If I have this correct ??... The "Eccentric Bushing" (pg.11 #18) is drilled off center.. allowing for adjustment of gear mesh ??
So I put the gauge plate assy. (pg. 11, #22) on and tighten it down... NOTHING will move.. so I loosen the bolt on the loose slide tube and it started working.. the only problem I see with leaving the bolt just loose enough (with red loctight) for it to work is... It doesn't let the top of the gauge plate assy. go in far enough to shield the blade (safety first) when not in use... Sooo... not liking that.. it's working but nowhere's near as smooth as it should

Lance.. was thinking the same thing about taking the data plate off... was looking down in the hole for the tube that has the slide rod sleeve (pg11,#1).. Don't know how you would change that sleeve without taking the data plate off as well...

 

[LanceR]

You're right, there are a lot of built in wear and lash adjustments on these.

Yes the slide rods are tack welded to the plate that connects them. If you want to take a shot at tack welding the slide tube back on using a stick welder (or have it done by someone else) the preferred rod would be a 308L. An acceptable alternative would be 309L which is used to join stainless and carbon steels. I have some 3/32" 309L and would be glad to send you some to save you buying a package of them for three little tacks.

Personally, I'd weld it with the rods in their bores to establish the correct angles and clamp a hunk of metal to the thin connecting strip to act as a heat sink so the strip doesn't warp from the heat.

My best guess (without actually pulling the slide rods out of mine to look) is that the slide rod sleeve is a press fit part installed from under the slicer and not from above. While I've never looked at that slide rod sleeve in a 512, other Hobart equipment I've worked on that have sleeve (bushing) style bearing surfaces they have always been able to be removed and replaced with either standard or custom pullers.

I also suspect that the broken screw (pg 11, item 5) is adjusted into and out of the slide rod bore by way of screwing the plug-cap in or out in order to set the "home" stop position of the gauge plate where it covers the blade. As that stop position would be very unlikely to need reset in the field over the life of the slicer it would seem that they didn't make it particularly easy to adjust after initial assembly.

In any case, as oldhobartslicerparts.com sells the plug-cap and screw so I'd call them for advice. They obviously know how to install and adjust them.

 

[JckDanls 07]

What I ended up doing ... Took the slicer to a buddy's house... straightened out everything the best we could... put the slide assembly together and slide all the way in... stacked up a bunch of washers on the bolt to screw into the rod that the tack welds had broke on .. this way the gauge plate wasn't in the way for welding.. He has a tig welder so that's what we used... covered everything up with welding gloves for protection from welding... ended up working out pretty good.. assembly now slides in and out easy by hand with no gears hooked up...

Now lets see what happens when put all back together.. with a little more adjustments on the "eccentric nut" for gear lash... everything was working satisfactorily as for sliding in and out... So then the gauge plate was still not "square" with the blade .. meaning when the plate was closed the bottom of the blade was covered but the top was not... Which also would be slicing the meat thinner on one side... Albeit very minute .. At work we have to use aluminum shims for shimming electric motors to sit square with a gearbox for installation of a coupler... HMMMM.. If i use a piece of shim in the bottom side of the gauge plate mount that will/should make the top of the plate go in... after starting with way to thick of a shim I finally found the right one and got that set... Everything seems to be good enough..

On the carriage unit ... when sliding it back and forth it slides effortlessly when going across the blade to cut... but on the backslice it has some resistance to it.. Do you guys find your carriage unit's (on your 512) do this ??

And then onto the blade sharpener ... Now I see that has some adjustments on it as well as for the angle/bevel of the cut... Any headsup on that and proper way to use it would be good..

 

[LanceR]

Hello Kieth

My 512 has the same funky dragging feel when returning the carriage back to the home position. I don't see any way to adjust it out either unless the nylon(?) bottom roller is worn down to a much smaller diameter than when it was new. I suppose the I could call oldhobartslicerparts and ask them what the diameter of a new one is. The top bearing on mime was sticky so I replaced it. That help some but not much.

The 512 came in top mounted and bottom mounted sharpeners versions. Mine is the bottom sharpener version and I don't have the sharpener which isn't an issue as refer to sharpen most slicers by hand anyway.

I'm glad that you got it worked out. Now go make some dried beef or some such and show us how it works!

 

[DanMcG]

Mine has the same drag. I admit I haven't torn it apart to clean it, but I find a little silicone lube helps.