Finishing Temp?

[olecrosseyes]

There is discussion on a fishing website that deals with cured summer sausage and the propper finished internal temp. A friend of mine states that "when the cure#1 or the like is used that the safe internal finish temp is 152 degrees to kill the last of the bacteria that can cause issues". I have a chart shows that USDA for all ground red meats is 160F (no cure was used). My package summer sausage mixes that have cure#1 in them say to finish @165F.

There is a 13 degree temperature spread there. What are the truths and what is over kill??

 

[daveomak]

The new elevated temperatures, in my opinion, are due to the presence of salmonella being found in many products...
That being said, you can finish sausage at lower temps if you follow USDA pasteurization tables...
Using the example 135F, it recommends 28 minutes for a 5 log reduction for salmonella.... Personally, I increase the time by at least 1 hour... That is insurance if your therm is off or the meat has inconsistent temperatures... Also, the longer the hold time, the log reduction increases approaching a 7 log reduction in bacteria etc....
Using this chart, reduces or eliminates fat out and dry and crumbly sausage like high temperatures can cause...

 

[olecrosseyes]

Thanks Dave,
Your chart is for whole meat not ground, like I find for smoking poultry.
The source of my question is the use of pink cure #1 if it has any bearing on the IT for a finished product? Do you think that where your chart shows the the IT @152F and it holds that temp for 33 seconds without lowering that it is safe then?

 

[olecrosseyes]

Oh, I meant to state that my smoker is running steady now @180F I started at 130F and have raised it 10F every hour. I also have Digital probes in 1/2 of the 3 pound logs.

 

[crazymoon]

OCE, I would not leave your smoker at 180 but would drop down to 170 and wait it out. The higher temps can cause fat out etc. as Dave mentioned. I usually do 152-155 for an IT.

 

[olecrosseyes]

I hear ya moon, When I said steady @ That really meant that it has been between 170/180 but not over.

Again I ask is 152 to 155F safe for ground meats?
Does the use of the cure help to bring the IT's down to the 150's?

All I see the cure doing is aid in the 40 to 140F issues, maybe?

 

[daveomak]

Nitrite has no effect on the final temperature for safe meats... It is there to primarily destroy botulism.. It has some other attributes....
The second paragraph, at the bottom of the chart, explains the tests were conducted in "beef emulsions" which is pretty close to ground meats...

 

[JckDanls 07]

I hear ya moon, When I said steady @ That really meant that it has been between 170/180 but not over.

Again I ask is 152 to 155F safe for ground meats? ... YES.. as long as it has cure in it... If no cure is added then it has to be cooked to 165F
Does the use of the cure help to bring the IT's down to the 150's? ... As Dave said... cure does not affect IT any that I know of

All I see the cure doing is aid in the 40 to 140F issues, maybe?

Anytime a hunk of meat (any kind of meat) has been compromised (ie. cut/poked/sliced/stabbed/ground) anytime the surface has been broken.. guidelines say to cook to 165` IT ... Unless cure #1 (or Tender quick) is used then lower IT's are acceptable...

 

[daveomak]

 

[daveomak]

Thanks Dave,
Your chart is for whole meat not ground, like I find for smoking poultry.
The source of my question is the use of pink cure #1 if it has any bearing on the IT for a finished product? Do you think that where your chart shows the the IT @152F and it holds that temp for 33 seconds without lowering that it is safe then?

Re-read the top line above the chart.... NON-INTACT should indicate ground or cut up... Not whole muscle... At least that's the way I interpret it....

 

[tallbm]

If cooking wild game meat like bear or pork you will want to go to 165F to make sure you kill the microscopic parasites.
In the USA you don't really have to worry about such situations with farm raised meat like pork (so we are told).

I believe 165F is always mentioned in USDA food safety information because it is the silver bullet for pretty much any kind of meat... wild, farm raised, poultry, ground, etc. etc.

 

[olecrosseyes]

I thought maybe I should post a couple of pics, ya know what they say,,,,

 

[crazymoon]

OCE, I guess you should take the sausage to 160 to be safe. IMHO your probes are best put in from the top and go right down the center of your sausages. This prevents fat from running out and gives a more accurate temp.Your sausages are looking good and please follow up with some finished product shots !

 

[archeryrob]

I cook summer sausages to 145 IT and hold that temp for a longer period. Maybe 10 minutes or as long as I feel like. Keeping the smokehouse under 180 and this can take a while. IMO, its one of the best things I did to improve my summer sausages. They stay moist and little shrinkage and if its winter I turn off the damper for the heat and open the door to cook them down.

Cooking to 160 in my beginning days meant for high temps and I got fat out and shrinkage. The IT on the summer sausage never seems to get close to the smokehouse temperature for me.

 

[daveomak]

The IT on the summer sausage never seems to get close to the smokehouse temperature for me.

I have read on a few sites, sausage IT's will only get to "about" 15-25 F of the smoker temp. due to evaporative cooling effect, of the moisture in the sausage...

 

[BGKYSmoker]

First dont probe the casings on the sides or just dont use probes at all.

Take your chubs to 151-152 and you will be fine. Dont read all into the books full of holes.

 

[olecrosseyes]

First of all this is not directed at anyone in general, it answered my question for the finish temp ?



I was and have been focused on the “Finished Temp” of Summer Sausages for years now, I have been making my own for 20 ish years, I’m not a newbie.

I have never received any factual answers from any one that had any factual data backup. I hope that this info will help. This was to inform anyone, that may want to do just a little bit of reading to find what seems to be a truth and, that has creatable facts.

The internet has become more worthy to do research in the last 1 to 3 years now. My search has been relentless at different years without any answers that points away from the 160F final temp, till tonight.

I have finally been able to put my finger on some material that will give me definitive credible answers that resolve my questions.

——————————–

Sausage Making and Safety by the University of Georgia and the USDA FDA

https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_rev.html#preface
———————————————–

6.7. Sausage
https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_pres.html
—————————————————–

U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Safety and Inspection Service. 1995b. Focus On: Sausages. Washington DC: United States Department of Agriculture. Available from: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/pubs/sausages.htm. Accessed 2001 Sep 30.
https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_ref.html#usfda9—————————————————

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...preparation/sausages-and-food-safety/CT_Index
————————————–

The final was:
Most people think that the “Cure#1” or any other cures are a kill all to the evils of pathogens that lies in uncooked meats. I have always believed that it has only to do with the “IT” meat temperatures that will lay in the 40F to 140F within 4 hours. This concept is not new to me and now I believe that my research has proved it. My links may not be enough to convince you all but, I have read more than enough material finally concluding today that, I did put that to bed for myself!

I have also put to bed what the “Safe Final Internal Temp” is, as a minimum internal temperature that is held over a time particular amount of time period.

My search closes my issues with a semi-dry sausage that has been cured the way I do it. I have also found more info that has substantiated my background knowledge on other foods including poultry, that I have made for a safe final temp, the way I do them.

I hope a little reading that I have provided gives you a peace of mind in your food hobbie.