Butt bacon prague 1 or 2?

[jlpicard]

Why white? Flavor and/or color?

Do you guys consider that original recipe I posted a dry cure? I just noticed there's no mention of water.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Why white? Flavor and/or color?

For me, black pepper doesn’t stay on the meat that well and is more mild in flavor than white pepper. The white that I use is ground very fine like a powder, this helps it stay on the meat better and produces a better pepper flavor in the finished product.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Do you guys consider that original recipe I posted a dry cure? I just noticed there's no mention of water.

I would say semi-dry just because of the molasses, but yes the basic recipe is a dry cure. This produces a better bacon flavor to me than wet cured where meat actually takes on water/moisture and dilutes the meat flavor a little, at least to me.

With my dry rubbed bacon I don’t even bag it anymore. I place in on a rack in the fridge with a pan underneath to catch the moisture that is extracted. This process dries down the meat just a bit and concentrates the flavors. When done curing I don’t rinse either because I apply the percentage of salt, sugar, cure and spices I want the meat to finish with. My pellicule is already formed and I go straight to the smokehouse.

 

[jlpicard]

Oh I am going to try that. I have a small dorm fridge so it won't take on any odors. Ill rig up some ss racks.

 

[jlpicard]

Pork is ,1885 gm
Salt , 32 gm
Sugar combined ,14 gm
Cure #1, 6 gm

Sound right? I used https://www.localfoodheroes.com/cal...3&sevenprod=0&sixprod=1.03675&totalprod=57.96
Pork is 1885 gm

 

[thirdeye]

I come up with 4.7 grams of Cure #1. I'm guessing the calculator you selected is basing the cure on 200 ppm, which is the top end limit for belly bacon. Using 156 ppm gives you a safety net.

0.25% is the amount of Cure #1 to shoot for. Here is how that's done: 1.885 kg X 2.5 g/kg = 4.71 g of Cure #1 needed.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I come up with 4.7 grams of Cure #1. I'm guessing the calculator you selected is basing the cure on 200 ppm, which is the top end limit for belly bacon. Using 156 ppm gives you a safety net.

0.25% is the amount of Cure #1 to shoot for. Here is how that's done: 1.885 kg X 2.5 g/kg = 4.71 g of Cure #1 needed.

1885 X .0025 = 4.71g cure #1

 

[thirdeye]

1885 X .0025 = 4.71g cure #1

Yes, there's more than one way to fall off a horse.

I mainly like the former (2.5 g/kg) method because some people read "0.25%" then don't comprehend the ".0025" multiplier and get confused. The most common error is moving only one decimal point and using ".025" as the multiplier, which results in the answer of 47.1g.

 

[staticgenerator]

Well marianski says #2 is no longer permitted in any curing method for bacon because of the nitrates. I also read about tender quick which I have never used but it seems to have nitrate also.

This is correct. USDA has banned the use of nitrate in conventional bacon, sort of. Technically you can’t use nitrate but all the “uncured” bacon on store shelves is in fact cured with celery powder which is high in nitrates. They just are not classified as a curing agent by the USDA, so the product is labeled “uncured” even though the bacon is perfectly cured “pink” in color.

This keeps coming up. I’ve used Morton’s Tender Quick in the past for bacon, and according to their recipe guide (even the latest “Canadian Bacon” recipe on their website) they state to dry cure for 3-5 days mortonsalt.com/article/meat-curing-canadian-bacon/



If the USDA has banned the use of nitrates other than extended curing over 40 days, how can this company still promote it’s use for anything else? I wonder if such a small amount of nitrates is as bad as they say. Maybe a discussion on MTQ should be pinned to the top of the forum?



Regardless, for those interested, here the actual breakdowns of nitrates and nitrites for a recipe like dry cure bacon when using MTQ compared to cure #1 alone (calculator for cure #1 from diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html)

Grams To cure 1 pound (453.6 grams) of meat
	Morton's Tender Quick (1TB)	Cure # 1 (156 ppm) 2% salt
Cure #1	0.035	0.070625
Cure #2	0.035	0
Salt	5.36	8
Sugar	8.57	4.5
Total grams	14	12.57

So it appears that MTQ splits the amount of nitrate and nitrite approximately in half compared to curing with nitrite alone.

 

[SmokinEdge]

This keeps coming up. I’ve used Morton’s Tender Quick in the past for bacon, and according to their recipe guide (even the latest “Canadian Bacon” recipe on their website) they state to dry cure for 3-5 days mortonsalt.com/article/meat-curing-canadian-bacon/



If the USDA has banned the use of nitrates other than extended curing over 40 days, how can this company still promote it’s use for anything else? I wonder if such a small amount of nitrates is as bad as they say. Maybe a discussion on MTQ should be pinned to the top of the forum?



Regardless, for those interested, here the actual breakdowns of nitrates and nitrites for a recipe like dry cure bacon when using MTQ compared to cure #1 alone (calculator for cure #1 from diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html)

Grams To cure 1 pound (453.6 grams) of meat
	Morton's Tender Quick (1TB)	Cure # 1 (156 ppm) 2% salt
Cure #1	0.035	0.070625
Cure #2	0.035	0
Salt	5.36	8
Sugar	8.57	4.5
Total grams	14	12.57

So it appears that MTQ splits the amount of nitrate and nitrite approximately in half compared to curing with nitrite alone.

Morton’s TQ contains salt, sugar 0.5% nitrate and 0.5% nitrite. The cure is designed as an all in one cure mix, much like Peklosol is in Europe (0.6% nitrite, 99.4% salt) so applied at 2% of meat weight you will have about 120ppm nitrite, applied at 2.5% (salt) you would have 150ppm nitrite. With these products you can’t over do the nitrite without making the meat to salty to eat. This European style of curing salt is where Mortons TQ was born, they just added a little sugar and .5% nitrate.

On Mortons web site, they do not recommend their product for the production of bacon. That’s CYA from the USDA regulations of no nitrates in bacon, TQ as a product predates the current regulations.

 

[staticgenerator]

OP states recipe calls for cure #2 (correct)
Users reply that no nitrate needed in cures < 40 days (correct)
OP replies with concern that MTQ contains nitrate for shorter cure (correct)
Morton’s website recommends MTQ for cures 3-5 days (correct)

Conclusion: I am addressing the OPs (unaddressed) point that MTQ contains nitrates for shorter cures. I don’t use MTQ and I don’t recommend it. It should not be used because nitrates are not needed in cures < 40 days. Others can do their own research and decide.

 

[SmokinEdge]

OP states recipe calls for cure #2 (correct)
Users reply that no nitrate needed in cures < 40 days (correct)
OP replies with concern that MTQ contains nitrate for shorter cure (correct)
Morton’s website recommends MTQ for cures 3-5 days (correct)

Conclusion: I am addressing the OPs (unaddressed) point that MTQ contains nitrates for shorter cures. I don’t use MTQ and I don’t recommend it. It should not be used because nitrates are not needed in cures < 40 days. Others can do their own research and decide.

You are largely correct.
Nitrate is broken down to nitrite, like a time capsule for a continued supply of nitrite.

Can you explain how and why nitrate is converted to nitrite? This is very important as to why not to use or to use. The process is specific.

 

[staticgenerator]

Can you explain how and why nitrate is converted to nitrite? This is very important as to why not to use or to use. The process is specific.

Here’s what I found on Lapoli’s website:

In reality, the nitrate, to be useful in curing, must be converted to nitrite...this is accomplished by bacteria (Micrococcus, for example) present in the meat paste. Nitrite is used up quickly in the curing process so a mixture of nitrate and nitrite is added to dry-cured meats to ensure a supply of nitrite in the later stages of maturation. In addition it keeps the meat an appealing red color. Nitrite reacts with myoglobin and is an essential for the development of characteristic red color in preserved meats. It is quickly used up so another sodium compound (nitrate) is added along with the nitrite. An enzymatic reaction (caused by nitratereductase) converts nitrate to nitrite. The reductase is produce by a common bacterium (Micrococcus) found in the meat or the bacteria may be added during production.

Introduction to Making Salami

lpoli.50webs.com

This isn’t a very thorough explanation, but it’s a good intro. As I understand it, more nitrates are needed during a dry cure process, especially one where the product will have reduced moisture, sit on a shelf at room temperature, and is ready to eat without cooking. The nitrates act as a reserve source of nitrites that will be used later.

In any case, I’m just a novice. Lapoli’s website has largely been my go to for all things cured. He’s taken a lot of home cured processing and modernized it, making things as safe as it possibly can be. I’ve tried some dried cured meats through this source, and while I’m not totally happy with the results, I’ve been able to proceed with confidence.

Happy and safe curing, smoking and most of all: eating!

 

[SmokinEdge]

The key here is enzymatic reduction. Meaning the enzyme must be present and must be in a temperature range where it’s active (above 50*F) Otherwise the nitrate will not convert to nitrite.

Nitrate does not cure meat directly! Nitrite cures meat directly and at any temperature above freezing.