Oklahoma Joe Longhorn size questions

[hillingdoner]

Thanks for the info!  How thick are the plates? 

Just wondering as it might be mine are too thin to do much good.

 

[dockman]

I have some 3/16" and some 1/4"

 

[daveomak]

Just a suggestion or 2..... The flex duct... raise it up about 3-4" above the food grate... the grate may be blocking air flow....
The air inlet to the Fire Box..... Add a second air inlet about across from the FB/CC opening.... That will allow for adding air flow to the CC without adding air to the fire.... When you get familiar with that set up, adjusting CC temps will be easier and it should reduce fuel consumption.... and the secondary air will help to burn off any creosote from incomplete combustion.....

smokehouse-firebox-5.gif

• daveomak
• Jun 20, 2014

Smoke circulating in a smoker.jpg

• daveomak
• Jun 20, 2014

 

[hillingdoner]

Thanks for the posts!  And, sorry for another huge post from me. 

Here is the latest for those that may be interested.

First off, moved the plates closer to what you have Dockman, although my "floating" end plate is 6" wide instead of 4".

I put a chimney of lit kingsford charcoal in and then put my oak on top of that.  Couple of fairly large pieces to get some good embers etc.  I let the oak burn down with the firebox door open and everything else open.  I then closed the cook chamber and started drafting through to heat it up.  Firebox top door still open as wood had burned down, but not to ember stage. 

Here is the start of where I realize I need to work some more using wood only for fuel and learn more what to do.  Got the wood burned so that when stoked it broke apart into smaller chunks.  Had a black, ashy on the edges appearance.  Good heat and flame coming off so I close the big door and have just the side door open.

I get heat in the cook chamber and white smoke.  Leave it like this for approx. 30 min and then check the temp.  I'm now within 3 degrees end to end although temps are not that high.  I open the firebox and see that the wood is charcoal looking (like lump charcoal from the bag), smoke coming off and no flame.  A few seconds later a flame pops up on the charcoal looking wood.  I let it burn a minute, try moving it around so that it gets more air (my assumption of need), I now have a good flame going on it so I close the door. 

Sadly, don't remember now if I had the side door still open at this point or if I had it closed and the inlet adjusted full open.

Anyway, white smoke (this is seasoned oak burning), temps not changing much, holding around 199 both ends.

Trying to get the temps up, I thought perhaps I needed a bit more fuel by now so I then add another piece of oak.  Prob 3x5" and 8 inches long.  Leave the top door open until the wood catches and is burning pretty well.  Close the top door, side door is now closed for sure with the inlet open wide and exhaust has been open wide this whole time.

I get lots of white smoke.  Basically it seems like instead of continuing to burn a flame in the firebox once closed, it instead allows the wood to smolder and produce a lot of white smoke.  Open the main firebox lid after about 30 minutes and the added piece of wood is black and smoking, no flame.  With lid open a few seconds the piece of wood then pops into flame and burns. 

So, the moving coals around, adding wood, organizing so I believe I can get the best air flow, etc. etc. continues for a few hours.  Max temp reached side to side is 217 with a variance of only a degree or two side to side.  That is good.  The bad is, continued white smoke and the temp is too low overall. 

In the firebox I end up with white ash, very few glowing embers, some charcoal looking wood chunks just like I have lump added and a situation where it pops into flame when the door is opened.  I pull up an article on the net saying that perhaps too much fuel is being used by the poster so I give that a try and remove a larger piece I had in the box and leave only two pieces about fist size in diameter and 10 or so inches long in the box.  This does not change anything and I don't seem to be getting a nice glowing ember bed, but just white ash and black chunks.

At this point, have to admit I said screw it and got out the charcoal basket I made with the S pattern in it and thought I'd give it a try.  Loaded it with Kingsford, put a few small chunks of wood in it, dropped the basket into the firebox and put a lit chimney of coals on the end of it closest to the cook chamber.  Pushed the basket over toward the inlet, kept the inlet full open and closed the firebox.  This ended up being the key for me.  With adjustment I could either hold the temp at 225 range straight across or if I opened the inlet so that the edge of the damper was even with the corner of the full open spot it would hold at 253.  Amazing thing was it held this temp without dropping for 4 hours.  Nice clean light exhaust.

Positives, perhaps learned a little, progress with getting temps even, got to test out my home made minion charcoal basket and got a brisket out of the deal when all said and done.

As far as being a stick burner and using just wood for fuel, I have a LOT to learn.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

DaveOmak- that is interesting about the vent.  Also the comment on the exhaust.  Have to admit my dryer vent tube is just bent and propped in.  I'm not much for it as it does not look that great, but have not found tubing that was not galvanized as yet to use instead to make it cleaner.   I did think about knocking it out of the way during the cook and seeing what results I got at the grate temp wise and flow change, but had the brisket on when I did and I did not want to loose any temp opening the cook chamber door. 

Been through so much fuel on this thing learning and testing, but may try one more burn and see what working with and without the exhaust extension actually does for me now.   Would be interesting too to see if raising it as you suggest would give positive results on flow (easier heat build) while maintaining grate temp even.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[buttburner]

As you have found out you need to maintain a flame. When you see white smoke there will not be a flame in the firebox. Peek in the lid and you will see the flame appear, then the white smoke disappears.One thing to try is smaller diameter splits, and make sure they are preheated before addingSmaller diameter spits ignite and stay lit a lot easier. You will find the perfect size

 

[hillingdoner]

That is a good tip.  I did use a couple of rather large initial logs/splits.  Maybe smaller and less would be a better deal. 

Considered giving it a go (smaller pieces and try without and then moved elbow exhaust) just a little while ago.  Feel bad for the neighbor though as they had to have their patio door closed all day yesterday with me smoking that brisket and I see their door open again.

Went out to at least clean the ash out of the smoker and heard their door close.  Don't want to be inconsiderate so may wait a day or two before further testing.

 

[james1nc]

 
That is a good tip.  I did use a couple of rather large initial logs/splits.  Maybe smaller and less would be a better deal. 

Considered giving it a go (smaller pieces and try without and then moved elbow exhaust) just a little while ago.  Feel bad for the neighbor though as they had to have their patio door closed all day yesterday with me smoking that brisket and I see their door open again.

Went out to at least clean the ash out of the smoker and heard their door close.  Don't want to be inconsiderate so may wait a day or two before further testing.

I have a big chop saw and I cut my logs in different lengths, I have from 4'' 6'' and 10'' pieces of oak . the only time I use the 10'' is when I will be away from my smoker for awhile  because it will give me two good hours of heat unattended .  Just keep playing with it and it will come to you . it took me awhile to get mine where I know how the get the fire going where I wanted it .

 

[hillingdoner]

For those that are still interested or following this rambling topic here is a bit more of my quest to get things right or at least close.

First off, a big thank you to all who have posted.   The info has not fallen on deaf ears and I've made adjustments and learned from them.  Anyway, thanks.

Okay, so here goes.  Neighbor made the mistake of closing their patio door so I got the smoker going on a test run.

I have the tuning plates set up like Dockman.  My plates are just the 16g 18"x6" pieces you can buy from Home Depot in their metal department.  Sprayed with Pam and run through a few burn cycles.  I got good results I thought out of my old set-up, but using the new positioning has pushed the heat further into the cook chamber closer to the exhaust end which is what I wanted.  

On this run I also tried using a little smaller pieces of wood started with one chimney of Kingsford.  I also took out the dryer vent exhaust extension down to the grate.  I expected to loose temp on the exhaust end grate.  This proved to be not so in my instance. 

I ran my digi gauge probes through a potato and positioned one on either end of the cook chamber.  The gauges ran anywhere from exactly the same temperature to 7 degrees difference at a maximum.  I got the temps up to 253 (exhaust) and 250 (firebox) and they held there until I adjusted the smoker to try and get more to 225 - 230 range.  The temps at the grate held within the 0 - 7 degree variance range during the entire process and WITHOUT the exhaust extension to the grate.  Close enough for me!

DSCF8647.JPG

• hillingdoner
• Jun 24, 2014

Smoker cooling a little here, but you see the left (exhaust end) and right (firebox end) temps at the grate.  223 and 219.  Only 4 degrees out here which was about the average.  Often the temp would be exactly the same or within a degree or two as it idled along.

DSCF8650.JPG

• hillingdoner
• Jun 24, 2014

Here is where I had the probes,   The right one is turned a little more to the corner because I snagged the wire just before snapping the shot.  I had them both pointing the same way.  Hopefully you can see the plates through the grate. 

 

[hillingdoner]

Part two of above post:  So, at least for me, conclusion so far is I like where the tuning plates are positioned and, at least for me, I'm not going to bother with the exhaust extension down to the grate.  Takes up cook area and for the variance I've averaged now, it just does not seem needed as I have good temp distribution to the grate on the exhaust end now thanks to the tuning plates pushing heat that way.  I was concerned that I might not be getting much smoke on the firebox end, but when I opened the cook chamber door the smoke within was even throughout so I think I'm good.

Here is where I have the most to learn and practice.  Still having issues with white smoke and my wood going out in the firebox causing it to smolder instead of burn. 

I'm in agreement that I'm still probably using too big a pieces of wood and perhaps too many even though I'm only using two at a go.  After reading the above posts and re reading the stickburning 101 this seems like this could still be an issue for me.  Also, in the 101 the wood size is given at 1 to 1.5 inches in diameter.  I picked up firewood so mine is much bigger around than thist.  I too used my chop saw to cut them down shorter, but I am thinking that perhaps I need to see about splitting them down to smaller diameter.   Not looking forward to that at all.

I am also wondering seriously about DaveOmak's post about another vent.  It seems like my fire is starving.  Either too much wood or still not enough air coming in.  To keep the wood burning I had to leave the firebox side door open.  If I closed the door and just ran the inlet damper all the way open, the fire would go out fairly quickly and I'd get billowing white smoke out of the exhaust.  If I opened the top lid to the firebox the wood would flame up again and if I opened the side door before closing the top lid it would stay burning nicely.  Smoke out of the exhaust this way was more of a vapor.  I could tell something was coming out of the exhaust, but it was clear.  Only issue though with doing this is that heat would build up back to the 250 range and potentially climbing instead of 225-230 and I found it difficult to use the entire door to adjust the heat down.  I was not much for having the side door open with the chance of hot coals maybe falling out also. 

So, that is where I am.  I know it just isn't probably this difficult and maybe I over think things, but that is how I am.  Here is a few more pics.

DSCF8646.JPG

• hillingdoner
• Jun 24, 2014

is what I would get as soon as I closed the side door and just had the inlet damper open all the way.  Flame would go out on the wood and the smoke would go from clear, where you could hardly tell anything was coming out, to starting to smoke like this or thicker.  This is pic the smoke is pretty light compared to most times where it was really white and billowy, but by now the wood had dwindled down a bit.

DSCF8649.JPG

• hillingdoner
• Jun 24, 2014

of the firebox right after the smoke picture above.  Just two, what I thought were small, chunks of wood with the flame out.  Side door closed and damper all the way open.

 

[daveomak]

For those that are still interested or following this rambling topic here is a bit more of my quest to get things right or at least close.

First off, a big thank you to all who have posted.  The info has not fallen on deaf ears and I've made adjustments and learned from them.  Anyway, thanks.

Okay, so here goes.  Neighbor made the mistake of closing their patio door so I got the smoker going on a test run.

I have the tuning plates set up like Dockman.  My plates are just the 16g 18"x6" pieces you can buy from Home Depot in their metal department.  Sprayed with Pam and run through a few burn cycles.  I got good results I thought out of my old set-up, but using the new positioning has pushed the heat further into the cook chamber closer to the exhaust end which is what I wanted.  

On this run I also tried using a little smaller pieces of wood started with one chimney of Kingsford.  I also took out the dryer vent exhaust extension down to the grate.  I expected to loose temp on the exhaust end grate.  This proved to be not so in my instance. 

 [/URL] Here is where I had the probes,   The right one is turned a little more to the corner because I snagged the wire just before snapping the shot.  I had them both pointing the same way.  Hopefully you can see the plates through the grate. 

HD, morning..... Thank you...... It is very refreshing to see someone try and learn the intricacies of operating a SFB w/tuning plates, and have success.... A lot of thought went into that design by some "BBQ GEEK" that wanted adjustable temps across the cooking surface...

BRAVO

 

[hillingdoner]

Thanks for that DaveOmak.  Now I just need to get that fire issue cured. 

From just what I've seen so far, I need to have the wood continue to burn/be in flame to get the "invisible" smoke or "blue" smoke that is required for a good cook.  I'm going to try to make the pieces of wood I have smaller in diameter, but the same length.  My only issue is that I would think I'd reach the point of diminishing returns as if they are too small I may end up having to add to the fire continuously. 

Thoughts still on the issue of getting enough air in.  Way I see it I have two options and one that is probably not an option. 

1) get another vent of some kind and install it around the area you mentioned sort of across from the firebox outlet .  I don't have room in the door so would be above in the top "half" of the firebox.  This would give me a quasi OJ smoker that I've seen at Home Depot that has a large wheel with two inlets into the firebox instead of the single I have on the Lowes one.  If I install an inlet in this area I have a few concerns though.  The first is that it would be above the fire.  So, would I get any benefit from it as far as increasing air to keep the fire going?  Also, I worry that it would end up just being a draw vent that would perhaps increase the air sucked in the bottom inlet and then just venting my heat and smoke out the top one.

2)  Somehow increase the exhaust size closer to what is shown in the pit calculator and see if I can get more "draw" from the exhaust end.  Issue with this is it might be more work than my abilities are capable of.  Source for good material in the size needed is one issue and my mediocre at best welding skills another.  Only have an ancient flux 70 amp welder I got from Sam's back in the 80's!

3) this one is probably not an option.  With my grates cross ways in the fire box, the base of the fire is now raised so that the bottom of the coals sit approx. an inch from the top of the inlet hole.  In other words, most of my inlet air is coming in under the fire.  I have moved the fire around and made sure to have space so air is not trapped under the coals/fire, but I wonder if this is squeezing off my available air that would keep things going.  I could put the grate back long ways in the chamber, but then there is very little room for the ash to drop away so that is why I say it is probably not an option.

Puzzling.  Any thoughts or experiences with the above?  With the loads of people using these things with good results and the desired "blue/clear" smoke I know it is probably down to my not understanding something or doing something wrong.  The process continues.....

As a note for those interested, this is the second cook/burn where I have plugged the drain tube in the cook chamber with foil while running.  I'd occasionally see smoke coming out of this otherwise and thought it might be acting as a siphon for heat and smoke.  Not sure of the overall effect if any, but thought I'd mention.

 

[daveomak]

Skifreak made this mod to his air inlet.... The adjustable plate, on the top half of the butterfly valve, worked pretty good for controlling the upper air while still being able to control the air to the fire.... not exactly sure of your configuration.... but.... I thought this was a pretty ingenious mod... It could be modded to an adjuster on both halves of the BF inlet...

DualAirinletsSkiFreak.jpg

• daveomak
• Jun 24, 2014

 

[hillingdoner]

Skifreak made this mod to his air inlet.... The adjustable plate, on the top half of the butterfly valve, worked pretty good for controlling the upper air while still being able to control the air to the fire.... not exactly sure of your configuration.... but.... I thought this was a pretty ingenious mod... It could be modded to an adjuster on both halves of the BF inlet...

DualAirinletsSkiFreak.jpg

• daveomak
• Jun 24, 2014

That is what is weird with these smokers.  As best I can tell there is a variance on the same smoker, but has a different letter designation at the end of the part number.  Seems to be the one I got might be a Lowes exclusive (just a feeling) as the Home Depot one has the vent like you just pictured.  Mine only has a single vent and I believe the door is smaller potentially too although not measured to verify. 

DSCF8631.JPG

• hillingdoner
• Jun 24, 2014

This is what the (now flipped and modded) damper and door look like on my smoker.  The seam for the two firebox halves is not much higher up from the top of this picture so I don't believe I'd have room to add an inlet there so would have to be above the seam.  That might be too high though.

As I said, I believe the two models are the same smoker, just a different firebox door/vent arrangement.  Going off memory, but I believe my smoker measured out at 40 inches long for the cook chamber and 20 inch diameter.  The fire box I seem to remember measured 18 inches long and 20 inch diameter.

Vent inlet area I had stock was only 7.5 inches, but with the mod I now have a bit over 12 inches. 

 

[daveomak]

A small air inlet above the door should work.... That opening need be only about 3-4 square inches....

 

[frizzlefry]

I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.

 

[james1nc]

 
I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.

I had the same problem I used 4-6'' bolts and raised my grate .no more problems with ash build up

 

[buttburner]

I had problems keeping the temp up after a few hours in my OK Joe.  I finally figured out that ash was  building up under the fire grate blocking air flow.  I need to get some kind of metal shovel to clean it out or build a fire basket or raise the grate.

Turn the fire grate 90 degrees in the firebox and it will raise it enough for good air flow. Then take one of the fire grates out of the smoke chamber and lay it next to it so the whole firebox is covered with grates.I can cook for 12 hours that way, still room for the ash

 

[hillingdoner]

 Turn the fire grate 90 degrees in the firebox and it will raise it enough for good air flow. Then take one of the fire grates out of the smoke chamber and lay it next to it so the whole firebox is covered with grates.I can cook for 12 hours that way, still room for the ash

This is how I have mine.  Every once in a while I move the ash around through the inlet hole just to be sure it is not piling up and blocking air flow.  Not had a problem in that regard with them sideways as ButtBurner says.   Still plenty of room.

DaveOmak - decided this AM, before I break down and add another inlet I'm going to try another burn with even smaller pieces of wood and see if that helps.  Perhaps my firewood is still too large in diameter to keep the burn going.  I keep coming back to (in my mind) the fact that others seem to be getting the desired results with temp and blue/clear smoke without doing anything, but maybe throw in some tuning plates to even out the temps.  Supports the feeling that I really must be doing something wrong in my basic process.

I'd think if there were a basic flaw in the fundamental design of the pit that there would be loads of threads with common place additions of vents etc.  I have a tendency to make things harder than they really are

   Then again, not sure how many OJ smokers on the board are like mine with the single inlet in the door rather than the dual round inlet adjuster set up.

Interesting to me was this AM I looked at the Yoder site.  Looks basically like the same smoker, but more heavy duty (would not mind having one, but can't afford $1000 more).  The door on the side of the firebox is larger and it has the dual inlet round adjuster as well.  Hmmmm.  Guess I should start calling myself IHOP being as I waffle back and forth.

I did have a look/measure last evening to see the available room if I did add a vent.  Just really don't see room right above the door due to the seam for the two halves being there.  So, vent above the door would have to be a pretty good deal higher than the fire so again wonder about it becoming less a source of inlet air and more an outlet vent for my heat and smoke. 

I could potentially fit a very small round inlet to the side of the door towards the top corner.  Probably and estimated 3" diameter round hole max.

Then that other thought popped up again of maybe putting a vent on the opposite side of the firebox from the door.  Basically under the cook chamber where the firebox half moon shape hangs down.  Bit of a pain to adjust anything, but there should be room there and I guess you could always add a rod to extend out to make adjustments easier.

Anyone any thoughts on this last idea?  Do you think it would cause too much of a cross breeze and just blow everything out of the side vents?  Cause any issues with placement as it would be under where the inlet to the cook chamber is for the heat and smoke? 

 

[buttburner]

Don’t add any vents. Totally unnecessary with this cooker. Learn to manage your fire and you will be fineI promise!!!

 

[hillingdoner]

Thanks for the reply ButtBurner.

Yes, going to try a few more burns and see if I can crack it finally before doing anything drastic.  At the moment the wood keeps going out and just putting out white smoke.  Don't seem to be able to get that nice glowing embers with a flame burning clean all the while. 

I purchased some seasoned oak and some seasoned hickory at the same time so I'm going to see what I get with the hickory as I already cut that into smaller pieces. 

So far I've been using one chimney of Kingsford, dumping it in the grate when most of the top bricks are turning gray at the edges and I have a nice yellow/orange glow from the lower coals.  Then I put the wood on with everything open and let it light good.  Just don't seem to be able to keep it going from there once I close everything except the inlet damper full open and the exhaust stack full open.  Dies out and smokes a lot, but pops back into flame when I open the main firebox door.

One somewhat successful burn so far has been with pretty much all charcoal in a basket with a few small chunks of wood thrown in.  Would rather just use straight wood as that is what I read this smoker is supposed to be designed for.