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When to probe.... - Page 2

post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef JimmyJ View Post

Your original post was thought provoking, but Please Sir, Stale Smoke is not a Safety Issue. If you want to talk about it further, a thread in the appropriate forum, like Blowing Smoke Around the Smoker would be a better place...Thank you my friend...JJ
I apologize for bringing THAT up....I will not be starting a thread about it....ThanKS for your input...
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkjunkie View Post


I apologize for bringing THAT up....I will not be starting a thread about it....ThanKS for your input...

No need to apologize...:biggrin: We just got to keep things organized as much as possible...JJ

post #23 of 29
All interesting reading above and it could go on like the theory of evolution. I feel the absolute most important thing is keep your probe's and equipment clean. How many times have you seen crusty utensils and dirty smokers/grills at cookouts? I for one will not be partaking in the fare. It's a chefs first responsibility in his kitchen to eliminate any possibility of contamination. Check product and keep temps correct on storage. Keep your prep area clean and a Sani bucket available with clean kitchen towels. In short, do your best to eliminate any possibility of contamination, it's our responsibility. JMHO.
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
Not trying to be a smart azz here....but how many of us,have dropped something on the floor, picked it up and thought about the five second rule and ate it? I know I sure have....lol...

I also asked him about the freezing of pork. I have read that it is necessary to freeze it for 30 days prior to smoking it. Les told me if cooking it at a low temperature it is necessary, but if cooking it at a higher temperature it is not. But he again said in most cases a healthy individual will have no problem eating smoked pork that was not frozen.
He did tell me that all these guidelines are on the extreme side of caution...pretty much what has been mentioned earlier....Damn near every star has to be aligned type of thing. He jokingly, least that is how I took it, said that if we didn't live in a lawsuit happy society the guidelines would probably be a lot less restrictive.
He also said that "cooking" food at the low temperature we use is inherently dangerous, if one were to look at all the "worst case" scenarios. But right after he said this he asked me if I wanted any more of the sausage he made from one of his lambs...that he cooked low and slow.

I feel, to a point, we do live in a paranoid society. How many of us are gun folks that go shooting? How many of these folks have a million dollar Umbrella policy on their residence, just in case they injure someone while out target shooting? For that matter, how many of us protect their homes with an alarm? Perhaps include a firearm? Of these folks how many of them ever needed either one?

Cleanliness...I think that is far more important in our hobby than when to worry about probing a piece of meat. Last year I got invited to a neighbors bbq. These folks claim to be farmers. He slaughtered and butchered a pig, by himself, after watching a few You Tube videos with the assistance of his daughter who had taken a biology class in HS. Their property is a complete disaster, the area where he did the butchering was outside, on a extremely dirty wooden table. I asked what the IT was before he pulled the meat from his grill, his response was he cooked by time not temperature. The meat was sitting on a platter in their absolutely filthy house...with a dozen or so flies hovering over it. A true disaster in the making.

I apologize for getting off subject and rambling.

Hope all of you folks have a great weekend....
post #25 of 29


Quote: I also asked him about the freezing of pork. I have read that it is necessary to freeze it for 30 days prior to smoking it. Les told me if cooking it at a low temperature it is necessary, but if cooking it at a higher temperature it is not. But he again said in most cases a healthy individual will have no problem eating smoked pork that was not frozen.

 

I have to wonder what Les meant by Low and High temperature....See the USDA /FDA regulations below... I was taught that the main worry in Pork was Trichinae Spiralis, the parasite that enters the muscles and causes Trichinellosis (Trichinosis). Although there have been very few cases, " in commercial Pork " since the late 40's, there is still a remote possibility that commercially raised hogs can be infected. The main cause was hogs eating unprocessed food scraps and garbage...Common in Home Farms of the past. All food refuse fed to commercial hogs for the last 60 years, has to be recooked to sterilize it. However, there may always be unethical farmers that cut corners and cost by feeding hogs whatever. The Trichinae is killed by heating the pork to an IT of 126°F and held there for at least 6 minutes and at 140° or higher the bug is killed in 2 minutes or less. So, for our Smoking purposes, the low and slow smoking at 225° to 145+, and Cold/Cool smoking of Nitrite Cured meats to 145°F, should represent no issue at all.

 

The only remaining problem is Cured/Dried Pork that will never be cooked. It is necessary to kill the Trichinae by Freezing before processing and consumption.

 

Years ago the freezing for 30 days was a common recommendation but that was typically in Home Refrigerator/Freezers. The USDA requirement for freezing to kill Trichinae has drastically changed as further testing was done...Hours not Days...

 

Freezing - Experiments have been performed to determine the effect of cold temperatures on the survival of T. spiralis in pork. Predicted times required to kill trichinae were 8 minutes at -20° C (-4° F), 64 minutes at -15° C (5° F), and 4 days at -10° C (14° F). Trichinae were killed instantaneously at -23.3° C (-10° F). The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Code of Federal Regulations, requires that pork intended for use in processed products be frozen at -17.8° C (0° F) for 106 hours, at -20.6° C (-5° F) for 82 hours, at -23.3° C (-10° F) for 63 hours, at -26.1° C

(-15° F) for 48 hours, at -28.9° C (-20° F) for 35 hours, at -31.7° C (-25° F) for 22 hours, at

-34.5° C (-30° F) for 8 hours, and at -37.2° C (-35° F) for 0.5 hours. These extended times take into account the amount of time required for temperature to equalize within the meat along with a margin of safety.

 

Here is the USDA text in it's entirety... https://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/trichinae/docs/fact_sheet.htm

post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
I probably should have been more specific. Les told me that when pork is cooked at 300*+ that it does not need to be frozen as the bacteria can not survive in that temperature, it only needs to be frozen when cooked at lower, again he used the 300* as the cutoff.
The following was just his opinion....that the freezing pork regulations are in place because retailers do not know how consumers will be cooking, low and slow vs hot and fast. So to be safe pork is frozen to remove any liability issues. Like I said, this is just his opinion.
If he is there today I will have my phone with me and plan on showing him this, perhaps he will add his 2 cents directly..
post #27 of 29

It would be great to hear what he says. All reference and teaching material refer to Finished IT as critical and with a few exceptions, Ground Meat, Injected Meat, how you get there, 200 or 300+, does not matter. By that thinking, would Sous Vide be absolutely Deadly?...JJ

post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Will have to wait until tomorrow. Ernie must have heard wrong, birthday party is tomorrow. I made a crock pot of beans, hauled this 90% full crock pot of beans up 6 miles of bumpy dirt roads only to find out the party is tomorrow lol...which reminds I have some questions....
post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 
Les didn't make it on Sunday..
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