Ideas For Thanksgiving Turkey

daricksta · Oct 27, 2012

I have the MES 30 and this year I plan to smoke our Thanksgiving Turkey. I plan on it being a 15 to 18 pounder. The wife doesn't want a spicy BBQ flavor profile but that's what I'm mainly finding for recipes. So, with the hot and traditional BBQ rubs and mops being ruled are out, I need something savory that tastes like traditional Thanksgiving but overlaid with smoke. Years ago I grilled a turkey in my Weber kettle grill over charcoal and it remains the best turkey I ever made. I'd like to replicate this using the A-MAZE-N Pellet Smoker.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a savory, as opposed to spicy, turkey rub? And I've been reading all kind of cooking temp recommendations, from 210-350 degrees. I've read low and slow doesn't work with poultry like it does with red meats, that high and faster is better. So, does anyone have a recipe, cooking temp, and cooking time recommendatons? Thanks.

s2k9k · Oct 27, 2012

Here's a few from Jeff that are a little different:

http://www.smoking-meat.com/november-10-2011-smoked-buttermilk-brined-turkey.html

http://www.smoking-meat.com/november-2010-smoked-cranberry-brined-turkey.html

http://www.smoking-meat.com/smoking-turkey.html

http://www.smoking-meat.com/nov-2005-more-turkey-tips-and-recipes.html

toby bryant · Oct 27, 2012

I have always heard that you should smoke 2 10 lb birds rather than 1 20 lb bird, due to the time spent in the danger zone.

I have a MES 30, when I do whole chicken or turkey the skin does not crisp up at 275°. I usually do whole birds in my charcoal smoker, 300° seems to be the magic number for crisp skin. But you can always crisp it up in the oven.

Just be careful with a large bird, remember 40° to 141° only has a 4 hour window.

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daricksta · Oct 28, 2012

Thanks for the links. I'll look them over and hopefully find what will work. I'm also checking roast chicken recipes for rubs and I'm also lookng a roast turkey glazes.

daricksta · Oct 28, 2012

Toby,

I didn't think about the skin crisping issue. I thought I would smoke the turkey at 300º but I was thinking of just a single turkey. What did you mean by the 41º 141º four-hour window? I want to check out the feasibility of getting the result I want with my MES30 but I'm also open to cooking it on my Weber charcoal gill using charcoal and wood chips.

daveomak · Oct 28, 2012

Rick, evening..... I've done 2 turkeys.... Not total smokes... We prepare them as usual, brine in refer, rub garlic butter under the skin, dry skin and put in smoker at 160 ish for 2 hours then into the oven to finish like normal, which can include buttering or oiling the skin.... (have the smoker up and running while prepping the bird).. This gives us a fairly "regular" bird with a nice touch of smoke.... (have the oven preheated before the bird comes out of the smoker)... I think bride has the oven at 500 for the first 10 minutes or something like that then finishes at 300 or so until done... I'm not exactly sure but I do know "It's none of my business".... the birds are great.... That probably doesn't help much but you have the satisfaction of knowing you know everything I know about cooking turkeys now...... LOL ... Dave

humdinger · Oct 28, 2012

daRicksta said:
Toby,

I didn't think about the skin crisping issue. I thought I would smoke the turkey at 300º but I was thinking of just a single turkey. What did you mean by the 41º 141º four-hour window? I want to check out the feasibility of getting the result I want with my MES30 but I'm also open to cooking it on my Weber charcoal gill using charcoal and wood chips.

Ricksta,

The 41-141 rule is a low-and-slow rule for large cuts of meat. Essentially it means that if the smoker is set at a low cooking temp, a very large bird will take too long to go from "refrigerator safe" temp to "hot enough salmonella can't grow" temp. Large birds are very thick and if they spend too much time in the 41-141 range as they heat up while cooking, you risk getting people sick. However, if you are cooking at higher temps, this may not be an issue. Basically no matter what method you use, just make sure the bird's internal temp spends less than four hours between 41-141 degrees.

chef jimmyj · Oct 29, 2012

Here is a Brine and Rub that is a Favorite with members of my Family. I like Pitmaster Choice Pellets but Apple and/or Hickory is great with Turkey. Measure the Temp in the thickest part of the Breast and Thigh, 165* and 175*F respectively. 275*F is about the best you can hope for in an MES. If the skin is not Crisp enough when the IT is 145*F in the Breast, put the Bird in a 425*F Oven to finish cooking to 165* and Crisp the Skin. Enjoy these Recipes they make a bird with the perfect amount of salt for my taste and the Rub is sweet and mild. For a bird that size you have two choices. You can Spatchcock the bird to get it to lay flat and cook faster....With a set of Poultry Shears, cut down both sides of the Backbone and remove it to be used to make stock for gravy. Then press on both sides to flatten the bird which will break the wishbone and allow for the larger bird to lay flat. Then Smoke as desired...OR... I don't have to do the Norman Rockwell table presentation but you can if you follow the procedure I use. I cut the Legs from the Breast, spine intact and start the legs 1 hour before adding the breast. The legs cook to 175*F and the Breast to 165*F and they come out of the Smoker or Oven at the same time. Here is a the technique I follow...http://www.knowwhey.com/2010/11/thanksgiving-divide-and-conquer.html...JJ

Poultry Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran Garlic

2T Gran Onion

2T Black Peppercorns

2T Dry Thyme

1C Cider Vinegar

1 Gallon Water

Mix and Soak Bird 12-24hours.

Drain and Dry Bird, Rest in refrigerator over night to dry skin.

Chix Bubba Q Rub

1/2C Sugar in the Raw (Turbinado)

2T Sweet Paprika (Hungarian)

1T Kosher Salt

1T Chili Powder (contains some Cumin and Oregano) Ancho Chile is same without cumin, oregano etc.

1T Granulated Garlic

1T Granulated Onion

1-2tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning

1tsp Black Pepper, more if you like

1/2tsp Grnd Allspice

Cayenne or Chipotle Pwd to taste, start with 1/2tsp and go from there

Mix 1-2T Rub for each stick of softened butter you use and rub it on and under the skin.

daricksta · Oct 29, 2012

Dave, this looks really good. I had decided last night against using the smoker but now I believe it's on again. You present the best of both worlds with your system. I wonder if 160º seems really low to cook at for two hours? I really love that garlic butter idea.

Humdinger, after I posted my comment I clicked on one of the turkey recipe links and read where Jeff explained about the 40º to 141º temp thing. Thanks for bringing it up because I never would have thought of it.

Chef Jimmy J, I really like the recipes you posted for brining and the rub. I looked at the webpage but will need to look at it a couple more times. I'm always slow on learning how to carve or cut up meat even with the photos. I forgot that 275º is the top heat temp output for the MES so I think I'll be doing what you and Dave have suggested about starting the turkey in the smoker and then moving it to a hot oven; just a matter of how long I leave it in the smoker. I've got the wood pellets you mentioned in Pitmaster's Choice, hickory and apple.

So, everyone, for an 18-20 lb bird, what is the max time I should leave the bird in the MES and at what temp? Dave has recommended 160ish for a couple of hours, and Chef JimmyJ suggests 275º and go by the internal temp of the bird before popping it into the hot oven. These are both reasonable suggestions and I don't know which way to go. I've never brined a turkey before I plan to try it this year; I've always been intimidated from doing this out of fear of contaminating the bird with bacteria if the body temp got too high.

humdinger · Oct 29, 2012

Ricksta,

No problem, it's a good safety tip when working with low cooking temps and large cuts of meat.

As for brining; a few years before I got into smoking meat, I was doing a lot of turkey frying, especially this time of year. Around 2008-2009 I caught a Turkey fry episode of "Good Eats" with Alton Brown on the Food Network and that's where I first learned of brineing. After I tried it I was hooked. There was a noticeable difference in retained juiciness with the meat, even when frying as opposed to the drier method of smoking. Go for it and reap all the praise afterwards!!!

daricksta · Oct 29, 2012

Humdinger, I saw that same episode and that put the brining idea in my head. We have two coolers and either one could fit a large bird for brining. I might chance it this year since we're going "gourmet" with side dishes and dessert. Both Better Homes and Gardens, and Cooking Light have outstanding specialty cooking magazines with terrific recipes that are easy to make. I really plan to rock the turkey this year and now I'm convinced that the Big Three of brining, smoking, and roasting it will do the trick.

daveomak · Oct 29, 2012

Rick, I use 160... You can smoke at a higher temp like 225 would not be a problem... Probably safer..... I have everything up and running while prepping the bird... Do not inject or poke the bird in any way prior to smoking or putting in the oven.... That will introduce surface bacteria into the meat.... I figure the salt in the brine and 160 deg kills the surface bacteria... Now we are 2 hours into the 4 hour 40-140 danger zone.... the 500 deg oven for 10 minutes or so will raise the meat temp significantly and kill bacteria further.... I would wait on taking the IT of the bird for at least an hour after put into the oven... Just to be sure all the surface bacteria has been killed.....

Does anyone know about intramuscular bacteria and pathogens in turkey or chickens ???? And what will survive the IT of 165 deg F for 10 minutes in a turkey....

Dave

daveomak · Oct 29, 2012

I found this excerpt from a site.... I had to join to get the rest of the story which I did not do..... Anyway, it looks like poultry and beef are sterile and contamination occurs at the time of processing, if you read between the lines.... Dave

... Studies on red meat have shown that the deep tissues of red meat carcasses are
intrinsically sterile [Gill, 1979] and [Gill, 1980] . It is not unreasonable to assume that
the same applies to healthy poultry. During processing, especially ...

chef jimmyj · Oct 29, 2012

The main pathogens that are of concern in poultry are various strains of Salmonella and Campylobacter both of which are found in the Digestive system and contaminate the exterior of the Muscles and between the Muscles and found under and on the Skin surface following the slaughter and processing of the birds. There are no Bacteria that invades and survives within the muscle but there may be some Parasites that do so but there is no mention of concern to humans in terms of food borne illness. The only other issue is Avian Flu transmission from Bird Feces to Humans but can't find records of any infection to birds or Humans from commercially raised birds in the United States, many precautions are taken to avoid infection, but proper sanitation and precautions against cross contamination need to be taken with home bred and free-range birds as it is free roaming birds that are most frequently infected...JJ

daricksta · Oct 29, 2012

Man, it's almost like you need a guide map to smoke a turkey. Dave, I would have thought injections into the turkey breast and drumsticks would be ok since I've seen it done on cooking shows. I thank both you and Chef JimmyJ for doing the bacterial research. I've yet to hear of Avian Flu infecting farm-raised turkeys but with the USDA so lax on inspecting these days, you never know.

After all this discussion, my lovely wife said she's concerned about food safety when it comes to putting the turkey in a smoker. She feels more comfortable roasting it in the oven, breast side down per a recipe she used a couple of years ago that was superb.

But not to worry: we have whole turkey breast in the freezer and that's the sucker I'm going to experiment on soon. It'll be perfect for the smoker and I can finish it off in the oven.

Dave, what was that site you had to join?

daveomak · Oct 29, 2012

. Rick, afternoon.... Make the wife happy..... That is the most important thing to do.....

daricksta · Oct 29, 2012

Dave: agreed!

toby bryant · Oct 29, 2012

Rick,

Have you thought about buying 2 10lb turkeys, letting the wife do one in the oven and do the other in your Weber. I would definitely recommend brining, it makes a huge difference regardless of cooking method.

I did not mean to start a firestorm with the 4 hour rule, lol. But salmonella poisoning would put a damper on a successful turkey day!

I do small turkeys and bone-in turkey breasts all the time in my charcoal smoker. A 10lb turkey @ 300° smoker temp is usually done in 3 to 3 1/2 hours and breasts around 2 hours.

Whatever you decide ... keep the wife happy :)

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xutfuzzy · Oct 30, 2012

Just my $.02...I smoke the separate pieces. I noticed after my first Thanksgiving turkey that only a small handful of people actually ate the dark meat (amateurs) so the next year I just bought two separate turkey breasts (which allowed me to do two different flavor profiles) and a drumstick for me. Having two different flavors of turkey pleased everyone, and I had a drumstick to myself. :)

daricksta · Oct 30, 2012

Toby and xutfuzzy, I like those ideas. Toby, I'm glad you brought up the four hour rule because I got food poisoning last summer. I had smoked a brisket in my electric smoker and the next day I grilled something on my Weber charcoal grill and decided to warm the brisket up over the coals after I cooked some steaks. It was on the coals for about 20-30 minutes. I was the only one to eat the brisket and that night I got really sick. Still don't know how I did it since it was beef and not poultry or fish that I had eaten. So, all for increased food safety.

As far as what we end up with on Thanksgiving, I broached the idea of two smaller turkeys and separate parts to the divine wife and she's thinking it over. She's very traditional when it comes to Thanksgiving--one big bird and all, so we'll see. There will be just five of us for dinner but I'd love to do a taste test between an oven-roasted turkey and a smoked one.

But Toby, remember that a MES 30 has a max temp of only 275º so that would limit the time I could keep a turkey in the smoker and I'd still have to finish it in the oven to crisp up the skin. But I have decided on brining the bird(s) this year.

Ideas For Thanksgiving Turkey

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