what did i do wrong

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eclipse31satx

Newbie
Original poster
Sep 2, 2012
12
10
Hi, new to this forum, and new to smoking.  i smoked my first brisket today and it didnt comie out very good.  looking for some tips on what i may have done wrong.  i followed the instructions from this recipe.  http://dadgumthatsgood.com/smoked-brisket/

the ends of the brisket were nice and tender but the rest was a little tough.  i expected it to fall apart and that didnt happen. 

details

brand new Masterbuilt 20070910 30-Inch Electric Smokehouse Smoker

5 lb brisket

taylor thermometer with lead in thickest part of the brisket.  the read out sits outside the unit. 

I did not put water in the water pan

used mesquite chips

smoker stayed steady at 225 degrees

brisket reached 165 degrees after 3 hrs.  wrapped in foil and replaced in smoker

reached 195 after 2 more hours.  total cook time 5 hrs. 

removed and let it sit for 20 mins before i cut it. 

if anyone has any advice i would really appreciate it. 
 
Hi, new to this forum, and new to smoking.  i smoked my first brisket today and it didnt comie out very good.  looking for some tips on what i may have done wrong.  i followed the instructions from this recipe.  http://dadgumthatsgood.com/smoked-brisket/

the ends of the brisket were nice and tender but the rest was a little tough.  i expected it to fall apart and that didnt happen. ***If the ends/edges were tender but the rest was not, it was under-cooked.

details

brand new Masterbuilt 20070910 30-Inch Electric Smokehouse Smoker

5 lb brisket ***Assuming this was a center-cut (lean trimmed flat cut)

taylor thermometer with lead in thickest part of the brisket.  the read out sits outside the unit. 

I did not put water in the water pan ***This should seal in the natural moisture using a dry smoke chamber.

used mesquite chips

smoker stayed steady at 225 degrees

brisket reached 165 degrees after 3 hrs.  wrapped in foil and replaced in smoker

reached 195 after 2 more hours.  total cook time 5 hrs. Should be very tender slicing at that temp.

removed and let it sit for 20 mins before i cut it. ***May need a couple hours to redistribute the moisture throughout the muscles.

if anyone has any advice i would really appreciate it. 
From the link you posted above (copy/paste), here's where I think there's a problem:

"2. Place the brisket in the smoker and cook at 225°F for 4 hours, until a bark begins to form.  Apply marinade every hour to prevent the brisket from drying out. Continue to smoke the brisket until the internal temperature reaches 165° F. (Total smoking time is approximately 60 minutes per pound.)"

This is a contradiction to my recent findings that if you let the meat's surface dry, you tighten the meat fibers and reduce interior moisture evaporation. I don't inject, marinade or do anything fancy or complicated with brisket. Mopping with marinade also causes heat loss from the smoker be repeatedly opening the smoke chamber.

Also, where he states to cook to 165* I/T possibly indicates a lack of thorough working knowledge and/or experience with brisket. I've never had one come out tender mush below 180*, myself. I'm thinking I wouldn't trust his info very much...not trying to bash the guy, but you can't believe everything you read on the net. Everything I know about what I've done to smoke great brisket tells me that his process is over-board, complicated and takes away from the potential of the brisket.

Go KISS method. Salt, pepper, garlic, onion dry rub just a few minutes prior to smoking...brisket has a great, strong flavor, so no need to get wild with flavor enhancements. Smoke to ~180* open grates, probe for tenderness and take to 185* if resistance is felt, then, wrap in foil and towels to rest for 1.5-2 hours before slicing.

Many think brisket needs a lot of special treatment to get it to come out good. Not so...it just needs proper treatment.

Don't give up. Brisket is not the easiest cut of beef to learn how to smoke, but it's the king of smoked beef, IMHO, especially whole packers, as they are so versatile in what you can make with them. My first brisket made me want to never try one again...then, I got conned by the wife about 8 months later, and after arming myself with more knowledge, I have made successively better brisket nearly every time. I tweek my methods now and then just to see what we like best, what works best for my various smoker arsenal, and what effects the outcome the most. I'm a tinkerer, so it's in my nature to get into the nitty-gritty of how it all works. You may find that you need to make certain adjustments for your particular smoker that may vary from what I do...that's normal. Every smoker will act a bit different, but once you find a good baseline for a particular cut of meat, you can improve your finished product by refining your methods.

BTW, please stop by the Roll Call forum so we can properly welcome you to the SMF family. Thank-you!

Eric
 
Last edited:
Eclipse,

Welcome to SMF.  Eric was spot on with his advise and comments above.  Smoking does take time to get right, but trial and error is the best way for you to learn what works best for your setup and the flavors that you and/or your family/friends enjoy in the end.  Read, read, read and then smoke, smoke, smoke!  Good luck!

John
 
thank you both for your input.

to recap to make sure i understand,    KISS method, which i am very happy to do.   cook to 180% IT.  if d di dont feel any resistance remove and wrap in foil for 1.5 - 2 hrs.   if i feel resistance at 180, then reinsert into smoker and at 185 remove and wrap in foil.  question.  when i remove and wrap in foil is there any place in specific to let it sit?  ie...just on a kitchen counter or maybe in the oven (not on).   when you say to wrap in foil and towels - are you saying to wrap in foil and then wrap some towels around that?
 
Yep foil then towels then into a cooler. Find the right size cooler so it fits with little air space. Fill any air space with more towels. Do this with butts also. They redistribute thier juices and will stay hot for hours.


David
 
Hi Flash, good question about the water. i questioned this myself but the instructions didnt say to put water in the pan so i didnt do it. since i dont know anything about smoking i trusted the instructions. next time i will use some water. my question on using water is do you have to check it periodically to make sure it hasnt evaporated away. if so, any suggestions on how often. i dont want to open the door too often.
 
Lots of folks, including myself, are turning to sand or gravel in the water pan as a thermal mass to help reduce temp swings. Water will reduce high temp spikes, but also takes more energy to offset the cooling effect of water evaporation. Heat control (high temp spikes) is really only an issue with propane or charcoal smokers of the less expensive types, or those which are not modified to perform better. Water in the pan in most electric smokers is not really necessary, especially due to most of them having lower ventilation rates than most propane or vertical charcoal smokers, as electrics have a higher humidity in the smoke chamber just from the natural moisture evaporation from the meat.

My advice would be to use washed sand in your MES water pan and fashion a foil pan over the sand to catch drippings so you can keep using the same sand over and over. The play sand at hardware stores and home centers is a convenient way to grab some, and you only need a small part of the bag, so you'll enough to last for about a year with swapping it out several times annually. And, you don't need to open the door to check the pan, because you'll have no water evaporating from it...makes your MES more of a true set it and forget it smoker...problem solved...well, other than adding smoke wood chips, at least.

Eric
 
Couple of things jump out that I didn't see covered:
  • Don't trust the factory therm to keep track of chamber temps. Most factory therms are off by 50-100°! Get a good digital probe that is your dedicated chamber probe.
  • Personally I do use water in the my pan. I have a charcoal smoker and I have always had great results using water..... but if you don't want to that's OK as well.
  • Small flats are harder to cook than full packers
OK, now when doing a small flat try the following. Keep the rub simple salt, pepper, garlic powder, paprika.... that's it. I strongly recommend mesquite wood for beef.... it really adds a wonderful flavor to beef.

Keep your chamber between 200° & 225° (water boils at 212° so the higher your temps get the faster you boil the moisture out of your brisket), get the brisket in, close the door and leave it alone for 3 hrs. After three hours put your probe in, close the door and leave it alone till the internal meat temp hits 155'ish - normally you would go to 165'ish, but with a small flat you want to foil early. Once you hit 155° ± 2° wrap it in two layers of heavy foil with either half a beer or half a can of low sodium beef broth - personally I prefer the beer. Put it back in the smoker and leave it alone till internal temp hits 190° - at 190° peal open a small area on the foil and stick it with a butter knife, if it slides in you are don cooking and are ready to rest it in the towel lined cooler. If the butter knife does not slide in easily close up the foil and check it every 5° of internal temp, till it does slide in.

Each piece of meat is different some will be tender at 190°, others might have to go all the way to 205° or 210°. The name of the game is low, slow, and don't rush it - and you will have brisket that family and friends will rave about! Also if your peeking, poking, basting, mopping your not cooking - every time you open the door you add 10 min. to your smoke time. Brisket isn't hard, as long as you are patient.

Johnny
 
Hi, get a smoke chamber thermometer my MES 30 temp varies quite a bit. Electric element is still heating when it shuts off and is still cooling when it turns on, so you have overshoot  and undershoot. I had to find the right set temp for my unit to make me happy. The Mes is good smoker don't give up.
 
Eric has made me a believer in the "dry smoke chamber". I used to inject, spritz, mop and try all kinds of fancy stuff and open the door all the time and never really got results I was looking for until I read these threads one day and decided to give it a try:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...n-gourmet-w-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view-finished

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...-wet-dry-smoke-chamber-humidity-q-view-method

This produced the most juiciest butt I have ever done and it had the great bark I had been searcing for! 

I know this thread is about brisket but I just had to share how the "dry smoke chamber" has really upped my game! Thanks again Eric!
 
I know one time I accidentally left my water pan (using water or sand) out and came back to find my temps at 400º +.  Once I replaced it I dropped back down to a reasonable 250º. As long as something is in the pan that can act as a heat sink you should have no problem. You may have to readjust your normal heat level setting be it charcoal or propane or even electric to make sure you don't end up grilling instead of doing a low and slow if you go with this Dry Chamber method. This again pertains more to vertical smokers, not so much in horizontals.

 I have never had a butt take 16 hours to produce FLOS, I know my wife would kill me if it took that long for dinner. 
wife.gif
  LOL
 
I know one time I accidentally left my water pan (using water or sand) out and came back to find my temps at 400º +.  Once I replaced it I dropped back down to a reasonable 250º. As long as something is in the pan that can act as a heat sink you should have no problem. You may have to readjust your normal heat level setting be it charcoal or propane or even electric to make sure you don't end up grilling instead of doing a low and slow if you go with this Dry Chamber method. This again pertains more to vertical smokers, not so much in horizontals.

 I have never had a butt take 16 hours to produce FLOS, I know my wife would kill me if it took that long for dinner. 
wife.gif
  LOL
Yes, that is very true about switching to a dry smoke chamber...your normal setting for intake draft on a charcoal smoker, or burner valve on a gasser, will change quite a bit. Even just letting your water pan run dry if using a wet pan will give you a huge spike in temps. Water in the pan plays a major role in temp control for spikes, but this also translates to a major increase in fuel/energy use. I use far less propane or charcoal with a dry pan...around 40% less, on average. I was getting up to 60 hours run time per 20lb LPG tank with my Smoke Vault 24 and a wet pan @ ~230* chamber temps with ambient of 60-70*...should go over 75 hours with a dry pan.

Yeah, 16 hours is a short no-foil butt smoke for me, Flash. I have had more than a few run well over 20 hours, and several were between 24 and 25.5 hours to hit 200* I/T...I called them the stubborn asses...LOL!!! I have been running closer to the 240-245* chamber temps (up from 225*) lately with a wet to dry smoke chamber with butts...it seems to yield even better natural moisture retention, about 15% reduction in overall cooking time and a killer bark.

Eric
 
This is some great input. The sharing on this forum is fantastic. I really appreciate the advice and shared links.
 
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