Keeping brisket warm for 4 hours, should I worry about temperature rise? 2nd brisket failure?

[JohnDS]

Hey guys. I am new to smoking but I've read a lot about it and smoked a few things on my barbecue. I finally purchased a RecTec 700RT pellet smoker. I do respect what most of you do with the stick burners, but for me, I needed something I didn't need to tend to.

So far I am happy with the way it operates and controls temperature. The first thing I smoked on it was a huge brisket. One of my friends who is an experienced stick burner was nice enough help me pick one out and showed me how to trim it up. I really wanted to put this smoker to the test and figured if I can do a brisket, then it's down hill from there. So although I got heat from my friend about this, I did not use a bowl of water, I did not wrap it at all to avoid stall, and I did not spritz it. I let it straight cook at 225F for 17hours. It stalled at 160F and again at 193F. It seemed tender enough at 193F so I took it off the smoker. I gotta say, it was so good and tender and the best I've had. My father came over and agreed. So I have 2 questions:

1) A couple of weeks later, I picked up a brisket myself and attempted trimming it. I obviously wasn't paying attention as well as I should have been when my friend was doing it, probably the beer. Everything went smooth except there was a big hard chunk of fat that started at the point side edge and worked its way deep into the middle of the point. I forgot if that should have been taken out, but I did it anyway and I ended up with two pieces of meat. The top half of the meat separated from the bottom half by the time i was done. I knew I screwed up. I decided to cook the two pieces separate from eachother, but at the same time. Both pieces cooked pretty much at the same internal temp and the smoker was set at 225F again. I cooked until both were 193F again, but this time they both seemed tough. I took off smoker anyway.

The two pieces were both very dry and not tender at all. The grease bucket barely had any grease in it. Although to me it seems obvious what I did wrong here this time, I am wondering if these other variables had anything to do with it being dry and tough. Here are those things:

- The first brisket with my friend was taken from fridge, trimmed, rubbed, and put on smoker immediately.

- The second brisket I did by myself I used a different rub and let it sit in fridge for 24hours before putting on smoker.

Besides for the brisket massacre I performed, had any of these variables above had any impact on it coming out dry and tough? I was thinking that maybe because I let it sit in fridge for 24hours, the salt in the rub took out some moisture? I don't think this was the case considering dry brining using salt only is supposed to help with moisture correct?

2) My father enjoyed the first brisket so much that he asked if I can cook one for him for a gathering. He hadn't known about or tried the 2nd brisket lol as I was embarrassed to invite anyone over to try it. I told him I would love to cook for him, but being inexperienced and also how the second brisket turn out, I had cold feet and didn't feel comfortable until I know what exactly went wrong with the second one, and until I do a couple more. So anyway, when I do get an answer to question #1, I will attempt to cook him one.

He will be taking the brisket 4 hours away.

My question is this, do I take the brisket off the smoker any earlier than I would have if it wasn't traveling so far? If so, what temp? What I am getting at is should I be concerned with the temperature rising more when wrapped in the foil and towels and being put in cooler for 4 hours? How long will it be good it the cooler?

3) Does anyone dry brine their brisket with salt before rubbing and smoking?

Thank you anyone for any input you can offer and taking the time out to read it.

This was the first brisket.

Below is the next day, I made a sandwich. Just as good.

 

[jbellard]

John,
Brisket (and other meat as well) can be at a certain temp and one piece be done but the next time not be done.
Clearly, your second brisket wasn’t done yet.
Usually once I get to 200 degrees, I will start to probe the brisket. For me , I have found that most of the time my brisket is done at 203-205.
For whatever reason different briskets will be done at different times which is why most guys will pick a temp to start probing for tenderness and NOT go by the internal temp.

As far as trimming, you need to google Aaron Franklin trimming brisket. He does hundreds of briskets every week and does a great tutorial.
If I had to pick, I would not trim at all vs separating the point and flat.
Get another brisket and try again using the above info and you’ll get it!

 

[jbellard]

As far as your dad traveling with the brisket for 4 hrs, you will cook it to completion and then wrap it in foil and keep in a cooler.
It will be just fine.

 

[chilerelleno]

I recommend pre-warming the cooler with hot water, and then using warm towels, pillows or such to fill up any empty space in the cooler.

 

[SparetireBBQ]

Or just have the cooler at room temp. I do this all the time. Holds easy 3-5 hrs in my Yeti

 

[JohnDS]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I never would have thought that the second brisket wouldn't be cooked enough. it was real dry and tough, I couldn't imagine cooking it longer. You guys know better than me though. I will take all your advice, thank you so much.

What is the deal with plastic wrap? Is that necessary? I would think that at the hot temp right off the smoker that the plastic wrap would leach. Anyone use that in addition to foil?

 

[chilerelleno]

Unwaxed butcher paper or foil.
No plastic next to the meat, maybe around the paper/foil in case of leakage.

 

[801driver]

I pull my briskets out of the frig, trim a little if needed, sprinkle rub and put in the smoker. I smoke my briskets open at 225'. Start poking for even doneness at 200'. When I am ready to take them out, I wrap in double foil, put an old large towel in a standard plastic ice chest cooler, then the brisket, then another towel wrapped over the top. I try to do 2 hours, but I got myself in a bind one time and had to leave it close to 5 hours, it was still very hot to slice when I was ready. Turned out great.

Good luck to you, we have to just keep practicing.

 

[JohnDS]

What do you mean you smoke them "open". Do you mean unwrapped the whole cook?

Thank you.

 

[greg1]

As others have mentioned your brisket was under cooked. I start probing for tenderness at 195. I am probably going to take a lot of flack for this but, I will say it anyway I recently switched to cooking briskest's without wrapping in butcher paper at the stall and with changing to that step I only trim out the hard fat along the edge at the point and flat. I don't trim anything on the fat cap just score it. I was making some pretty darn good brisket wrapping in butcher paper but going naked the whole way took it to another level. I also like to give my briskest's a 4 hour rest if possible before slicing and serving.

 

[petehalsted]

There was a recent post (prob 2 or 3 weeks back) where someone had a brisket that was still not probe tender at like 203, and if I remember right the final pull temp for that brisket was like 207. The conversation was a real eye opener for me, I wish I could remember the title of the thread. The bottom line from that thread was brisket will feel dry and tough until its done. Once those long strand proteins finally decide to unwrap and break down, the brisket will loosen up and become moist. Before that thread, I always thought 205 was absolute max and over the years I have pulled a couple out at 205 that were dry and tough and wrote them off as failures, now I suspect I just needed to power through until they reach probe tender. I know its really hard to leave a $50+ piece of meat going when you think its already shoe leather, but after reading that thread I am a believer.

BTW, I don't think anyone spelled it out exactly for you, but what you ended up doing was separating the point from the flat. The fat you "want" to trim is the hard stuff on the exterior, plus leave a fat cap. There is much discussion about the thickeness of the cap but somewhere between 1/2 to 3/4 inch. So folks don't trim at all other than the hard stuff.

 

[normanaj]

I've always used Jeff's "No fuss method" for doing brisket.Never had one come out bad.

https://www.smoking-meat.com/december-31-2015-smoked-brisket-no-fuss-method

 

[JohnDS]

Thank you guys again for taking time out and explaining. I can't wait to do another one.
Petehalsted, I always heard people say 1/8" - 1/4" cap. I guess it's just preference, idk.

 

[hardcookin]

I would say that briskets cook different from cook to cook. Sometimes by a very narrow margin, sometimes by a lot. I have had tough pieces of meat just take forever to go tender. Point being, each cow is different so each cook is a little different.
I would suggest that probing will yield better results. Usually anywhere from 190 -210.

In your picture above you could tell the brisket wasn't done because the grain wasn't opened up.

 

[JohnDS]

When you guys start probing, are you looking for "point" tenderness? I assume the flat will not be as tender or atleast be tender at different temperatures? Should you favor the point?

 

[tallbm]

Hi there and welcome!

You are getting some good advice, and here is my go at it:

1. You didnt' cook long enough on your 2nd brisket. Collagen begins breaking down at 190F or so and when it breaks down you the meat becomes tender, think of the collagen like glue in the meat fibers. Also when it breaks down along with the fat you get jucienss.

So again, cook until tender like people are mentioning. I start checking for tenderness around 198F. You will get varying numbers from people on when to check or when their brisket is most often tender. I think the varying numbers are due to how hard it is to get the perfect probe placement in the brisket. It seems that it takes me 3 meat probes inserted to get 1 right hahaha. Along with the fact that each piece of meat will be different, I think this is why you get varying numbers. Mine are usually done when the lowest temp probe reads 202-204F.

Probe in the thickest and center most portion of the Flat, not the point. The flat is the problem child, and the point is very forgiving. Do this and you will have a better idea.

Also again, the meat is done when it is tender. Just use the IT (internal temp) to tell you when to check for tenderness and and it is tender when you stab all over (especially the thick part of the flat) and the toothpic/skewer/probe goes in like butter.

2. Once you have finished cooking to tenderness simply double wrap in foil and then wrap in 3 bath towels. This works for me every time for 4-5 hour rests on my counter! When I unwrap and slice after 4-5 hours it is steaming hot! Coolers will work as well but if you dont' have one or have room then the 3 bath towel trick will work just fine, I do it all the time.

3. I usually just season the brisket all up while the smoker is getting hot and then throw it in.
I've "dry brined" a.k.a. seasoned the night before and covered with plastic wrap BUT this was because I wasn't going to have time to trim and season when I planned to throw it on the smoker. My schedule gets stupid busy and sometimes I have to prep the meat when all I have is a 2 hour window or some gap the day before and I'm busy the day of cooking as well. Both approaches work fine


If you watch the Aaron Franklin trimming video you will be fine. I trim about 90% like he days BUT I don't throw the good meat away like that which comes off the Flat (that is a big piece that MUST be trimmed in my opinion). I take that good meat and throw it in the smoker so it gets cooked as well. You can throw it in at the begning and pull when it is done or throw it in later and pull when everything is done or just grind it for burger, etc. etc. Don't let that good meat go to waste.

Thats it for my 2cents :)