Attention Breadmakers: Bromide vs. Iodide in processed flour

[SmokinEdge]

Just recently learned about this... Iodide (or is it Iodate?) was used as a conditioner in commercial flour up until around 1980. Then a switch to Bromide was made. My question is why was this done? Bromide is toxic to the human body and is banned in food stuffs in a lot of countries. Bromine will displace Iodine in the body when a person is deficient in Iodine (which is more common than people think). Bromine has been linked with numerous cancers...Breast, Uterine, Prostate, Pancreatic....among others.

Can anyone shed some light on this reason for the change?

indaswamp
Here is a link to a sodium bromide poisoning case. The article is a bit off topic but the sodium bromide part of it may be of interest.

https://www.westernjournal.com/man-finds-hallucinating-hospital-asking-chatgpt-dietary-advice/

 

[Smoke-Chem BBQ]

indaswamp
Here is a link to a sodium bromide poisoning case. The article is a bit off topic but the sodium bromide part of it may be of interest.

https://www.westernjournal.com/man-finds-hallucinating-hospital-asking-chatgpt-dietary-advice/

I saw that...weird case, and it's unfortunate that they don't know if ChatGPT gave him such very bad advice, or if he misinterpreted what ChatGPT said.

KBr is considered to have very low toxicity (much, much lower than potassium bromate), but the average adult consumes almost 3600 mg of sodium chloride a day, so replacing that with sodium bromide would be a huge dose of KBr...not surprising that it would cause serious problems.

FDA guidelines for potassium bromate in flour are no more than 50 mg/kg, which, when converted during baking to KBr would be about 35 mg/kg. Some flours do exceed the FDA guidelines, but on the other hand, it would be hard to consume 1 kg/2.2 lbs of flour a day in any combination of baked goods. If you consume a lot of baked goods, looking for non-brominated flour might make sense, but at least with a normal diet you can't get anywhere near the levels of KBr the patient in the link did.

The dose makes the poison.

 

[indaswamp]

KBr is considered to have very low toxicity (much, much lower than potassium bromate)

KBr is potassium Bromate. Did you mean to type NaBr?

 

[indaswamp]

I think it is the combination of lower iodine intake coupled with increased Bromine intake.....both being bad....especially for those on a low salt intake diet where they are lowering their iodine intake even further by reducing salt intake (iodized salt). It is even worse if someone is consuming iodine free salt such as Celtic salt or Himalayan salt....or even just plain old sea salt.

 

[Smoke-Chem BBQ]

KBr is potassium Bromate. Did you mean to type NaBr?

No, I meant KBr, to highlight that it's not a good replacement for NaCl. KCl, potassium chloride, on the other hand, is a salt substitute sometimes used by people on a low sodium diet, though that otherwise didn't come up in this conversation.

KCl tastes a little like table salt, I've no idea what KBr or KBrO3 taste like.

KBr is potassium bromide, the residue left after KBrO3 (potassium bromate) is baked and the oxygens given up in the process of conditioning the flour.

P PolishDeli gave a good explanation of the chemistry further up in this thread.

 

[indaswamp]

My mistake. Potassium Bromate chemical formula is KBrO3...

Potassium Bromide is KBr....

 

[SmokinEdge]

Don’t you get plenty of iodine from eating shellfish among other foods?

 

[SmokinEdge]

I saw that...weird case, and it's unfortunate that they don't know if ChatGPT gave him such very bad advice, or if he misinterpreted what ChatGPT said.

KBr is considered to have very low toxicity (much, much lower than potassium bromate), but the average adult consumes almost 3600 mg of sodium chloride a day, so replacing that with sodium bromide would be a huge dose of KBr...not surprising that it would cause serious problems.

FDA guidelines for potassium bromate in flour are no more than 50 mg/kg, which, when converted during baking to KBr would be about 35 mg/kg. Some flours do exceed the FDA guidelines, but on the other hand, it would be hard to consume 1 kg/2.2 lbs of flour a day in any combination of baked goods. If you consume a lot of baked goods, looking for non-brominated flour might make sense, but at least with a normal diet you can't get anywhere near the levels of KBr the patient in the link did.

The dose makes the poison.

The article was about the guy wanting to cut Chloride out of his diet, not Sodium. The AI swerved him into sodium bromide, I don’t use AI but to my understanding it give you results largely based on your own search history. So the guy was searching for salt substitutes that contained no chloride.

 

[indaswamp]

Don’t you get plenty of iodine from eating shellfish among other foods?

Yes, but most people do not eat the recommended 2-3 servings per week to achieve enough iodine intake from seafood alone.

There is also the issue with sublimation, which is a solid going directly to vapor, and something iodine can do very readily. So some of the iodine added to fortify salt is lost before it makes it into your body-especially when the salt is old and stored for a long time.

Iodine will form vapor from sea water as well, so people living near the coast will breathe it in. And lastly-the RDA for iodine was set at the minimum to prevent goiter (enlarged thyroid) and not the amount needed for optimal health. There are numerous tissues throughout the body that utilize iodine. It is important to fight infection in the lungs.....and the airways.

I personally am taking 600-1000micrograms of iodine per day from a sea kelp supplement.

 

[indaswamp]

as far as other foods.....most are severely deficient, It depends on the soil; for both animal and plant foods. Anything from the sea will have much higher concentrations.

 

[SmokinEdge]

as far as other foods.....most are severely deficient, It depends on the soil; for both animal and plant foods. Anything from the sea will have much higher concentrations.

I take this supplement when I remember. Ever heard of it?

 

[indaswamp]

From the website:

• The portion in IOSOL that is iodine, 43% is ammonium iodide and iodine, 57% is “free iodine.” By the time the IOSOL enters the stomach, the ammonium separates from the iodide and the remainder becomes 100% is “free iodine” which raises the metabolism and restores the electrical balance of the body.*

 

[indaswamp]

I can attest to the rise in metabolism from taking iodine.....

 

[forktender]

Central Milling has some really good grains and flours.

C.M. has a shop about 45 minutes from my house, it's in Petaluma CA.
I have family in Petaluma, and Santa Rosa, whenever they come to visit, or I go see them I either have them or grab what I need from C.M. shop.
If you're lucky, they are baking bread or making pastries or pizza in their test kitchen. They have a fully stocked commercial kitchen there, and they also have bread, pizza, and pastry making classes there. Went they are baking you can sample the goods. Their sourdough bread, and pizza is frick'in flat out amazing.

I love their flour, it's all I use.
Dan.

 

[forktender]

I can attest to the rise in metabolism from taking iodine.....

How much do you take? I'd like to try it.

Do you have a link to the product that you use?

Thank you.
Dan.

 

[indaswamp]

How much do you take? I'd like to try it.

Do you have a link to the product that you use?

Thank you.
Dan.

I take 950-1000 micrograms per day, in the morning....do not take it at night or it will keep you awake. The upper range would be around 1500 micrograms from everything I have read so far. This is what I take, though there are many other kelp products on the market...


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009A0LDM

*edit to add: I do not know if kelp powder is the best option, as I am just now researching iodine for my personal health. The Japanese have been eating kelp for a long time...at rates 100X higher than the U.S. RDA for iodine. And they have much lower rates of breast, ovarian, prostate, and pancreatic cancers....

 

[indaswamp]

I am currently reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AU40LIQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

 

[forktender]

This is why I love this website, this is awesome, thank you for the detailed information. I'm gonna give it a try, I could use something to jump start my metabolism.

Thanks a bunch.
Dan.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

This is why I love this website, this is awesome, thank you for the detailed information. I'm gonna give it a try, I could use something to jump start my metabolism.

Thanks a bunch.
Dan.

Don't you think you should check with your doctor first?

 

[forktender]

Don't you think you should check with your doctor first?

I had planned on doing so, my yearly physical is next week.