Heating Element replacement--but which one??

[Bearcarver]

Yes, that is a factor I must either face or back away from. The existing element is 1200 w so it's a fair question to ask 'is 300 w more worth all this effort'? I had thought of using 2 800w elements but it is apparently a little tricky to find them, altho I'm sure the're out there. I'm very stubborn and don't give up easily and sometimes come out a little like Don Quixote tilting at a windmill! I am afflicted by a curse to always try to 'make something a little better'--often with mixed results. Still, that's the way I am. We'll see how it develops!

Not that you need it, but I'll give you my opinion on heating elements for the MES 30:
I always thought 800W is under powering an MES 30.
!000W should be Better, and 1200W should be Best.
Anything over 1200W is too much---Like I said That's IMO.

Bear

 

[wild west]

EDIT: On re-read, I just noticed you said you "stripped the controls...." so if that means eliminating the control housing, how did you connect AC to the element i.e., what was the physical shape of the element ends where you made the connection? That has been my main argument against using rheostat type
elements.[/QUOTE]

The elements have spade ends that run high temp wire both to the controls and to a ceramic block. I eliminated the wires to the controls and added high temp wires from the neutral and hot on the ceramic block and ran them out the warmer cabinet and tied them to an extention cord with the female end removed. Made the cord connection inside a waterproof box mounted on the outside of the warming cabinet. Also ran hight temp wire to the ground on the hot plate. Hope i explained well enough.

 

[denny]

Yes Bear, I DO need your opinion! That's why I and so many others are on here. I have read so many of your posts and always respect your opinions. You have a way of getting to the point and without any BS--I like that. My experience in smoking is limited to a large, walk-in (almost!) sandstone monster I built 20 years ago. It is excellent but takes a long time heat (12" walls and 6" arched ceiling) and can handle 1 1/2 whole hogs. I'm 81 and it got to be a bit much to handle so I bought a Good One Marshall Smoker which is really without faults except I can't have it up on my deck where it would be most convenient. So I went to the MES 30 which I truly like, after an adjustment period of not having thick steel, etc, etc. That's where I am now, and a therapist might say I'm just trying to re-do the past!! Maybe so but I'm sure having fun doing whatever it is I'm doing! I've spent a long, long time gaining experience. You can bet I recognize and appreciate good experience-based opinions like yours, tallbm, Kurt, to name just a very few. Keep up the good work!

 

[tallbm]

I think you will likely be able to find an element that will work BUT I think you will run into a separate issue that you need to really investigate before buying the stronger heating element.

The issue is how the existing element is held in place. If you take the back off your MES and look at how the existing heating element is fastened in place. I believe you will find that there is no "frame" within the MES body for you to drill and/or bolt the new element into. You will have to replicate the way the existing MES element tackles the problem but do it in a different spot and with a heating element that may not be so easy to do so with.
Know that the sturdiness of the MES body is strictly from the spray foam insulation so as you remove the foam to install a new heating element you will lose stability and will need to resolve that so the new heating element is stable when put in place. If you have knowledge, tools, skills, and ability to little metal working then this may not be an issue at all. If not you may need to get some help.
Pull the existing heating element and make sure I'm not misstating my thoughts here. It was a long time ago when I flipped my MES40 heating element and dealt with that stuff in the MES so I could be off a little bit.

Let me know if this makes sense :)

 

[denny]

EDIT: On re-read, I just noticed you said you "stripped the controls...." so if that means eliminating the control housing, how did you connect AC to the element i.e., what was the physical shape of the element ends where you made the connection? That has been my main argument against using rheostat type
elements.

The elements have spade ends that run high temp wire both to the controls and to a ceramic block. I eliminated the wires to the controls and added high temp wires from the neutral and hot on the ceramic block and ran them out the warmer cabinet and tied them to an extention cord with the female end removed. Made the cord connection inside a waterproof box mounted on the outside of the warming cabinet. Also ran hight temp wire to the ground on the hot plate. Hope i explained well enough.[/QUOTE]

That is a beautifully clear and explanatory description! Thanks very much! And it has spade connectors as well. If I decide to go to 1500w, it would work--what is the mfg and model?

 

[wild west]

The brand name is Salton. Not sure on model # but it is a 2 burner total 1500 watt ....1 burner is a little larger than the other.

 

[wild west]

Also with that type of burner i can use wood chunks and charcoal in cast pans on the burners. I need to prelight the charcoal in a chimney but i can achieve the flavour of wood and charcoal and also a smoke ring. A mes 30 is likely too small for that setup though.

 

[denny]

I think you will likely be able to find an element that will work BUT I think you will run into a separate issue that you need to really investigate before buying the stronger heating element.

The issue is how the existing element is held in place. If you take the back off your MES and look at how the existing heating element is fastened in place. I believe you will find that there is no "frame" within the MES body for you to drill and/or bolt the new element into. You will have to replicate the way the existing MES element tackles the problem but do it in a different spot and with a heating element that may not be so easy to do so with.
Know that the sturdiness of the MES body is strictly from the spray foam insulation so as you remove the foam to install a new heating element you will lose stability and will need to resolve that so the new heating element is stable when put in place. If you have knowledge, tools, skills, and ability to little metal working then this may not be an issue at all. If not you may need to get some help.
Pull the existing heating element and make sure I'm not misstating my thoughts here. It was a long time ago when I flipped my MES40 heating element and dealt with that stuff in the MES so I could be off a little bit.

Let me know if this makes sense :)

Posts like this are probably one of the best features of this forum. It outlines a very real and knotty problem that faces any member who has an inkling to pursue
an idea that has not been covered before. Right up there with it are all the detailed step by step procedures someone has taken the considerable time and energy to craft. I applaud you all. As to this particular challenge, I have considered the over-all obstacles but in no way with the clarity and scope you have presented. So now I'm standing back and taking a second look. I'm sure I have the knowledge, tools and other prerequisites you list. However, other parts of the issue such as final appearance and effort involved for such little return (300W!), gives reason to pause.

I have decided to put this section on hold and finish the PID conversion, re-wiring, high temp terminals, new roll-out switch and other facets. I need to pick up more experience with an electric smoker in order to more fairly judge whether my heat-recovery time demands more power. A million thanks to each of you who have held out your advice and the good intentions behind it all.

 

[denny]

I think you will likely be able to find an element that will work BUT I think you will run into a separate issue that you need to really investigate before buying the stronger heating element.

The issue is how the existing element is held in place. If you take the back off your MES and look at how the existing heating element is fastened in place. I believe you will find that there is no "frame" within the MES body for you to drill and/or bolt the new element into. You will have to replicate the way the existing MES element tackles the problem but do it in a different spot and with a heating element that may not be so easy to do so with.
Know that the sturdiness of the MES body is strictly from the spray foam insulation so as you remove the foam to install a new heating element you will lose stability and will need to resolve that so the new heating element is stable when put in place. If you have knowledge, tools, skills, and ability to little metal working then this may not be an issue at all. If not you may need to get some help.
Pull the existing heating element and make sure I'm not misstating my thoughts here. It was a long time ago when I flipped my MES40 heating element and dealt with that stuff in the MES so I could be off a little bit.

Let me know if this makes sense :)

Posts like this are probably one of the best features of this forum. It outlines a very real and knotty problem that faces any member who has an inkling to pursue
an idea that has not been covered before. Right up there with it are all the detailed step by step procedures someone has taken the considerable time and energy to craft. I applaud you all. As to this particular challenge, I have considered the over-all obstacles but in no way with the clarity and scope you have presented. So now I'm standing back and taking a second look. I'm sure I have the knowledge, tools and other prerequisites you list. However, other parts of the issue such as final appearance and effort involved for such little return (300W!), gives reason to pause.

I have decided to put this section on hold and finish the PID conversion, re-wiring, high temp terminals, new roll-out switch and other facets. I need to pick up more experience with an electric smoker in order to more fairly judge whether my heat-recovery time demands more power. A million thanks to each of you who have held out your advice and the good intentions behind it all.

Also with that type of burner i can use wood chunks and charcoal in cast pans on the burners. I need to prelight the charcoal in a chimney but i can achieve the flavour of wood and charcoal and also a smoke ring. A mes 30 is likely too small for that setup though.

Also with that type of burner i can use wood chunks and charcoal in cast pans on the burners. I need to prelight the charcoal in a chimney but i can achieve the flavour of wood and charcoal and also a smoke ring. A mes 30 is likely too small for that setup though.

Thank you Wild West, of our beloved neighbor to the north, and whose Dominion we Yanks can't seem to pronounce correctly! As you may have noted I'm holding off on the element replacement for now but you can be sure I've stored your posts for further reference. Sounds like your smoker is very versatile and functional and which you should be very proud.

PS--I obviously don't know what I'm doing when I make these replies! I can see that there is unnecessary duplication that must be caused by my improper way of making them. My apologies to all for the resulting annoyances. I have tried to improve but haven't found the correct instructions so far.

 

[tallbm]

The elements have spade ends that run high temp wire both to the controls and to a ceramic block. I eliminated the wires to the controls and added high temp wires from the neutral and hot on the ceramic block and ran them out the warmer cabinet and tied them to an extention cord with the female end removed. Made the cord connection inside a waterproof box mounted on the outside of the warming cabinet. Also ran hight temp wire to the ground on the hot plate. Hope i explained well enough.

That is a beautifully clear and explanatory description! Thanks very much! And it has spade connectors as well. If I decide to go to 1500w, it would work--what is the mfg and model?[/QUOTE]

Another word to the wise if using a 1500watt element.
The amps pulled for 1500 Watts will be 12.5 Amps on a 120 Volt outlet. That is getting pretty close to 15 amps which is the limit for the breaker to flip.

In theory you have up to 14.9 amps to use on that breaker (provided the breaker holds true to 15 amps which GFI's are reported to weaken over time).
So with the 1500 watt element pulling 12.5 amps you at max have 2.4 amps left to pull on that breaker before it flips.

If you have any lights, appliances, etc. pulling power from other outlets that are on that same breaker then they cannot exceed 2.4 amps of draw or the breaker will flip when you turn on the 1500 watt element.

My back porch outlet is tied into the same circuit/breaker as my front porch, and ENTIRE garage. I have to make sure that I am not pulling more than 15 Amps while running my MES along with anything plugged into my garage and front porch (think Christmas lights... which are LED in my case so lower wattage).

Before you go and spend a lot of money and make these mods, be sure you know how much amperage you have to spare on the outlet/circuit that you plan to run this 1500 watt element on or you might have a disappointing outcome :)

 

[hoity toit]

I would like to know as well. One thought...you could but the hot plate and "part out" the element. Or perhaps find a small old electric oven and rob the element out of it. Running a 220 element on 120 will work but the amperage will be double.

 

[hoity toit]

That is a beautifully clear and explanatory description! Thanks very much! And it has spade connectors as well. If I decide to go to 1500w, it would work--what is the mfg and model?

Another word to the wise if using a 1500watt element.
The amps pulled for 1500 Watts will be 12.5 Amps on a 120 Volt outlet. That is getting pretty close to 15 amps which is the limit for the breaker to flip.

In theory you have up to 14.9 amps to use on that breaker (provided the breaker holds true to 15 amps which GFI's are reported to weaken over time).
So with the 1500 watt element pulling 12.5 amps you at max have 2.4 amps left to pull on that breaker before it flips.

If you have any lights, appliances, etc. pulling power from other outlets that are on that same breaker then they cannot exceed 2.4 amps of draw or the breaker will flip when you turn on the 1500 watt element.

My back porch outlet is tied into the same circuit/breaker as my front porch, and ENTIRE garage. I have to make sure that I am not pulling more than 15 Amps while running my MES along with anything plugged into my garage and front porch (think Christmas lights... which are LED in my case so lower wattage).

Before you go and spend a lot of money and make these mods, be sure you know how much amperage you have to spare on the outlet/circuit that you plan to run this 1500 watt element on or you might have a disappointing outcome :)[/QUOTE]


Being a licensed Electrical Contractor I ran two 20 amp 120 volt circuits to my back patio. Now I can use both electric smokers at the same time no problem.

HT

 

[denny]

That is a beautifully clear and explanatory description! Thanks very much! And it has spade connectors as well. If I decide to go to 1500w, it would work--what is the mfg and model?

Another word to the wise if using a 1500watt element.
The amps pulled for 1500 Watts will be 12.5 Amps on a 120 Volt outlet. That is getting pretty close to 15 amps which is the limit for the breaker to flip.

In theory you have up to 14.9 amps to use on that breaker (provided the breaker holds true to 15 amps which GFI's are reported to weaken over time).
So with the 1500 watt element pulling 12.5 amps you at max have 2.4 amps left to pull on that breaker before it flips.

If you have any lights, appliances, etc. pulling power from other outlets that are on that same breaker then they cannot exceed 2.4 amps of draw or the breaker will flip when you turn on the 1500 watt element.

My back porch outlet is tied into the same circuit/breaker as my front porch, and ENTIRE garage. I have to make sure that I am not pulling more than 15 Amps while running my MES along with anything plugged into my garage and front porch (think Christmas lights... which are LED in my case so lower wattage).

Before you go and spend a lot of money and make these mods, be sure you know how much amperage you have to spare on the outlet/circuit that you plan to run this 1500 watt element on or you might have a disappointing outcome :)[/QUOTE]


Spot on tallbum! Everything you mention bears repeating. When I got this MES 30 I added a dedicated circuit with 12 ga Romex, a 20 A duplex receptacle and a new 20 A breaker. This was out of respect for the drain an electric heating coil, under heavy use for hours, can effect. Also, I wanted to have a little cushion for future needs and other possible lights, etc. The importance of what you have written cannot be over stated and should be made a stickey, if not already! Thanks in advance for all the potential lives and loss you have saved for future readers!

 

[denny]

Another word to the wise if using a 1500watt element.
The amps pulled for 1500 Watts will be 12.5 Amps on a 120 Volt outlet. That is getting pretty close to 15 amps which is the limit for the breaker to flip.

In theory you have up to 14.9 amps to use on that breaker (provided the breaker holds true to 15 amps which GFI's are reported to weaken over time).
So with the 1500 watt element pulling 12.5 amps you at max have 2.4 amps left to pull on that breaker before it flips.

If you have any lights, appliances, etc. pulling power from other outlets that are on that same breaker then they cannot exceed 2.4 amps of draw or the breaker will flip when you turn on the 1500 watt element.

My back porch outlet is tied into the same circuit/breaker as my front porch, and ENTIRE garage. I have to make sure that I am not pulling more than 15 Amps while running my MES along with anything plugged into my garage and front porch (think Christmas lights... which are LED in my case so lower wattage).

Before you go and spend a lot of money and make these mods, be sure you know how much amperage you have to spare on the outlet/circuit that you plan to run this 1500 watt element on or you might have a disappointing outcome :)

Being a licensed Electrical Contractor I ran two 20 amp 120 volt circuits to my back patio. Now I can use both electric smokers at the same time no problem.

HT[/QUOTE]


HT--A wise move that creates a perfect setting for smokers. It's just too bad we can't all be this fortunate!

 

[tallbm]

Being a licensed Electrical Contractor I ran two 20 amp 120 volt circuits to my back patio. Now I can use both electric smokers at the same time no problem.

HT

Nice! Feel free to come by my place disconnect my garage outlets from my GFI circuit so that if a bad storm comes through and trips the GFI from my back porch fan and light that my garage fridge and freezer don't also get cut off
That is such a pain for me hahahha

 

[denny]

I would like to know as well. One thought...you could but the hot plate and "part out" the element. Or perhaps find a small old electric oven and rob the element out of it. Running a 220 element on 120 will work but the amperage will be double.

I almost over-looked this one! I still have 2 or 3 feelers out on the "parted-out" elements --mostly to check out if they have male spade connectors. It may be that there is an easy work-around for that problem, which has become such an insurmountable monster of a beast to me, but if so I have yet to think of it! At any rate, it has been put on the back burner, for the time being, pun intended! I had initially thought that a 220 element, running on 120, would provide only 750w. Not so! It should still produce 1500w and at twice the amperage as you pointed out. My only "formal" electronic training came with getting a General class ham radio license in 1958, and some facts don't come up as quickly or easily as they used to--and I'll stop there! Thanks for pushing my 'recall' button