First time doing bacon

[meateater]

There is no difference between a chemical produced in a lab or produced in a living organism.  I can make vitamin C in a laboratory or extract it from any number of sources including rose hips, orange juice the list goes on.  It's all the extra stuff that comes with it.  Whole oranges are a better source of Vitamin C then orange juice simply because they also provides fiber.  Oranges and Orange juice are better sources of Vitamin C then a tablet because they provide a wide variety of nutrients and carbohydrates.  If you want all that extra stuff.  I try to keep my sugar down so I take multivitamins and stay away from the fruit juices. 

The terms Natural and Organic are important when considering all the other stuff that goes into the process.  I would think nitrites and nitrates from celery juice or powder carries more "extra chemicals" then the chemicals purified by mechanical methods.  If all you need is the nitrite, do you want all the other stuff from the celery powder?

We have lost our way using these terms.  I think "hormone free", "pesticide free",  "no dyes or stabilizers" are important.  Organic and Natural are just ways for manufacturers to take the intent of a law and bend it to fit their marketing and profit strategy. 

I enjoyed reading this Thread,  good job guys.

Al

Your a plethora of knowledge professor.  

 

[alblancher]

He He  I hear somebody yanking on my chain 

 

[exhaustedspark]

Well here is the answer i got back from the sausage maker regarding the labeling and use of Celeray powder.

Hey Karl,
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    Good question. It is a new phenomenon using celery juice powder instead of using a salt and nitrite/nitrate combo (typical U.S. Cures), gaining steam quickly from the organic/natural food trend, which large producers know they can tap into... unfortunately the USDA/FDA is a fairly slow moving animal when it comes to proper labeling. I have seen these "uncured" smoked turkey slices, no nitrite bacon and so on. It is all just plain nonsense. The ingredients list on the package will invariably include celery juice powder or other high-nitrate vegetable extract which (as you mentioned) has plenty of nitrates which then break down into nitrites by reacting to bacteria present in the meat (Staphylococcus xylosus or carnosus, or a variant of Micrococcaceae <--- i have to check spelling EVERY time!). It is of course broken down further into nitric oxide. Usually you will also see the last ingredient as "Starter Culture" or Lactic Acid Bacteria or S. xylosus which are used as a nitrate reductase, quickly breaking down the nitrates. The wording is what makes it 'technically' true but, it is in my opinion misleading and the USDA doesn't go far enough in regulating what 'uncured' means when it DOES in fact contain Nitrates which will eventually CURE the product over time. It sounds confusing because it is confusing, but its grrrrreat marketing ;-)

    Let me know if this made sense to you and if you need me to clarify anything...

Sincerely,
 

Miroslaw "Mac" Stanuszek
R & D
The SausageMaker, Inc.
716.824.5814 ext.517
[email protected]

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On 8/10/2011 6:23 PM, Karl Miller wrote:

Regarding the use of #11080 Celery Juice Powder

I have noticed the use of Celery juice powder with bacon and the pkg states it is not cured. I checked the USDA site and it states the product is not cured and no nitrites added must be posted on the package also.

This is causing a lot of confusion not only with me but on quite a few forums. Does this stuff indeed cure and why wont the usda acknowledge it??

Also how can one claim no nitrites added when indeed it looks like this stuff brakes down in to nitrites??

Karl

 

[chef jay]

I did some searches on TenderQuick in Toronto area which lead me to grocery store which could carry it. They didn't have it but they had their own cure called ReadyCure (registered trademark). The ingredients are salt, sodium nitrite and sodium bicarbonate. They list the usage for dry cure as 'use 2 lbs. to 100 lbs. of meat'. So I'm thinking from the ingredients that primarily this cure is for pickles but it does list meat. Will the sodium bicarbonate work with bacon? I'm not going to complain if it doesn't, it just means kosher dills for me...

On another note, my parents are on a cross country trip to the west coast and will be in Billings Montana tomorrow. Can anyone recommend a good bbq joint? My Dad will thank you for it.

 

[tjohnson]

I believe Sodium Bicarbonate is added to help speed up the process

Todd

 

[alblancher]

Todd,

I may need to look at that again.  Sodium Bicarbonate is normally an anti-caking agent to keep dry mixes flowing evenly.  I have not seen it on the list of approved accelerates  as I look for cure mixes used in injection curing.  I'll keep my eyes open but that is it's normal function in dry mixes.  I did see it mentioned in a survivalist blog when they made Sodium Nitrite from the Ammonium Nitrite found in cold packs 

 http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/02/the_process_of_preserving_meat.html  

 

[chef jay]

I've thawed my pork belly and i'm going to give it a shot. Given the ratio above above, I figured out what amount of cure was needed per pound and then added some brown sugar and salt in the desired ratio as per another recipe I found. My next question is are you better to go light or heavy on the cure? I'm thinking less is best, as long as something is in there. I did it to what I calculated the ratio to be but I see, depending on the product, that some recipes call for more cure that what I've added (I have 4 lbs of meat, I added 1,28 oz of cure, 100:2 on the label).

 

[tjohnson]

I've thawed my pork belly and i'm going to give it a shot. Given the ratio above above, I figured out what amount of cure was needed per pound and then added some brown sugar and salt in the desired ratio as per another recipe I found. My next question is are you better to go light or heavy on the cure? I'm thinking less is best, as long as something is in there. I did it to what I calculated the ratio to be but I see, depending on the product, that some recipes call for more cure that what I've added (I have 4 lbs of meat, I added 1,28 oz of cure, 100:2 on the label).

Follow the instructions on the label, but you can add extra sugar and salt.  Use up all the mixture and stuff your slab in a ziploc bag.

Allow it to rest in the fridge for 7 days minimum, but I usually go 10 days.  Turn it every day.

Todd

 

[Bearcarver]

Chef Jay,

Yup---1.28 is what I get too, for 4 pounds, using Canada's "Ready Cure".

Bear

 

[chef jay]

Sorry for all the rookie questions but I guess we were all there once... Do I drain off the liquid that's produced or do I just leave it? If I do drain it, is it necessary to wipe it down? I'm turning it daily, I'm anxious and excited, and I think whatever I get will be better than not trying to do it at all. Also, I bought a bunch of wood this weekend with a gift certificate from my birthday and I got some pecan. Can I use it? If I combine woods, say apple and hickory, will it make a difference than using just one? Will my neighbours come knocking at my door once I start smoking the bacon?

 

[fpnmf]

Leave it..

Pecan is very good for bacon.

If you share it with your neighbors..you will have new friends for sure..

Stay calm..have fun...

Have a great day!!!

   Craig

 

[chef jay]

Thanks again for the quick response and for the advice. I will try the pecan. I've been dying to try it, it's the first time I've bought it. I'm pretty calm on the whole experience, I just can't wait to try homemade bacon.

The neighbours are used the smoke so I don't think they will mind. Once I bbq the final product, that's when they'll come knocking... (I make great pancakes too)

 

[Bearcarver]

Sorry for all the rookie questions but I guess we were all there once... Do I drain off the liquid that's produced or do I just leave it? If I do drain it, is it necessary to wipe it down? I'm turning it daily, I'm anxious and excited, and I think whatever I get will be better than not trying to do it at all. Also, I bought a bunch of wood this weekend with a gift certificate from my birthday and I got some pecan. Can I use it? If I combine woods, say apple and hickory, will it make a difference than using just one? Will my neighbours come knocking at my door once I start smoking the bacon?

I don't drain the juices until the Belly is through curing. Much of it will be reabsorbed, and some of it is cure.

All those woods are fine. I prefer Hickory, because I like my Bacon good & smoky.

Better Bar the doors, unless you're making a lot of Bacon !!!!

Don't forget the Qview!

Bear

 

[daveomak]

https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/e/e6/e6acd54d_wp_001_2007_Natural_Organic_Cured_Meat1.pdf

 

[chefrob]

wow, a bacon thread that didn't turn into a mess..............great job and great info on this one! nice job guys and chef jay, don't forget pics!

 

[chef jay]

I tested my bacon before smoking it and while tasty, waaaay too salty. The colour and marbling, if you want to call it that, were great. It fried up very nicely as well.

I can figure out my ratio for the cure that I bought. Does any have a simple per pound ratio for salt and sugar to while curing? I can get fancy on the next batch. I'm still testing. The good news is I'm fairly confident on my cold smoking, now I just need smoke good to smoke. I'm going to get another piece today.

 

[Bearcarver]

I tested my bacon before smoking it and while tasty, waaaay too salty. The colour and marbling, if you want to call it that, were great. It fried up very nicely as well.

I can figure out my ratio for the cure that I bought. Does any have a simple per pound ratio for salt and sugar to while curing? I can get fancy on the next batch. I'm still testing. The good news is I'm fairly confident on my cold smoking, now I just need smoke good to smoke. I'm going to get another piece today.

Jay,

Did you soak it & test it again, and soak it & taste it again, until it was to your liking?

Bear

 

[chef jay]

Umm, sounds like I missed an important step... Ok, I have the next one on the go. So soak, test, soak, test. After I get desired saltiness, does it need to sit again or am I good to smoke?

 

[Bearcarver]

Umm, sounds like I missed an important step... Ok, I have the next one on the go. So soak, test, soak, test. After I get desired saltiness, does it need to sit again or am I good to smoke?

I use TQ, and I have NEVER HAD TO soak due to saltiness.

However, I always soak for a half hour to an hour, & then give a salt-fry test to a few small slices.

If it's not to salty, you can rinse, pat dry, season, and form your pellicle.

I form the pellicle overnight, on my racks, in my extra fridge, but you can also put it in front of a fan for an hour or two, or just put it in the smoker at about 130˚ for an hour or so "without smoke". Then it should be ready to add smoke.

If it is too salty after using "ReadyCure" or anything else, soak it for an hour or two, and test it again. Repeat until it's to your liking. Then it will be ready to do as I mentioned above.

Hope this helps,

Bear

 

[chef jay]

I does thanks, I appreciate your responses. I bought another 4 lb chunk of pork belly which I will cure. I'll follow the advice above and then try it out. I'll take some pictures and post them once done.