Amount of cure needed when using a brine question.

[johnnyb54]

I know the proper amount of cure to use when making sausage but I’m a little unclear about the amount needed when using a liquid. For example if I’m curing a 4lb. pork loin in let’s say 1 gallon of brine do I add the weight of the loin (4lbs.) plus the weight of the gallon of water (8.34lbs) for a total of 12 lbs. Using the 12lbs. Do I calculate the amount of cure off the 12lb. total? Another question when making let’s say 5 lbs. of jerky (1/4”slices) with a 2qt. marinade, Is the amount of cure calculated from the 5lbs. of meat and the 4lbs. of marinade? I am aware that regardless of the amount of cure I need to calculate the amount of time required to cure the meat. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[smokerjim]

I just use pop's brine, which calls for 1 gallon water, 1 tablespoon cure, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup brown sugar, 1/3 to 1 cup of salt. to need to weigh meat just make the brine and add your meat. just make sure it's submerged. then brine for 1 day for every 1/4 inch of thickness plus 2 days. so if your meat is 2 inches thick you'll brine for 8 days plus two days for a total of 10 days. I never used any wet brines where ya got to weigh the meat but i'm sure someone will chime in with those answers.

 

[crazzycajun]

Universal Cure Calculator.........

I set up a javascript Universal Cure Calculator on my website. Here's the link for anyone who wants to play around with it.... http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html The calculator can be used to calculate the amount of cure and salt required in sausage...the amounts of cure, salt and sugar...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

Maybe this thread and calculator will help, maybe Dave or someone else will chime in

 

[JC in GB]

You combine the green weight of the meat plus the water. You then add the proper amount of cure for that total weight to get your nitrate PPM into the safe range.

For example; if I had 2 kg of meat and wanted to put it in 4 kg of liquid, I would calculate the cure #1 as follows:

2 kg + 4 kg = 6 kg

6 * 2.5 = 15g cure #1

Be sure to subtract weight of cure from your calculated salt content.

This is known as an equilibrium cure as the salt and nitrate in the meat and solution will equalize over time.

You can cut down the cure time by doing an injection brine cure.

JC

 

[gary s]

Good Advice above

Gary

 

[johnnyb54]

Thank you for the great info! This definitely helps to clear things up.

 

[JC in GB]

Thank you for the great info! This definitely helps to clear things up.

Also, one more tip. Using metric units makes your calculations far easier than US units.

 

[indaswamp]

JC in GB has got you covered...

One tip I will give you is that if you are marinating jerky, and you are using an acidic liquid like soy sauce or worchestershire sauce, then the acid in the liquid will react with the nitrite in the cure forming NO2 gas before the nitrite is absorbed into the meat.

I recommend curing with salt and cure #1 first, then marinate for an hour or so to flavor....

 

[johnnyb54]

JC in GB has got you covered...

One tip I will give you is that if you are marinating jerky, and you are using an acidic liquid like soy sauce or worchestershire sauce, then the acid in the liquid will react with the nitrite in the cure forming NO2 gas before the nitrite is absorbed into the meat.

I recommend curing with salt and cure #1 first, then marinate for an hour or so to flavor....

So if I understand you I should 1st cure with salt and cure before adding the marinade. I usually marinate my jerky overnight. If I cure the meat 1st and then marinate overnight will that cause an issue with the cure?

 

[indaswamp]

Being in the liquid for 12 hours and the marinade will start to pull out the cure...

The marinade has no cure in it. All the cure is now in the meat. Cure will move from the meat to the marinade to equalize. Now, when the cure hits the marinade, the acid will produce NO2 gas, this reduces the concentration of cure in the marinade, further pulling cure out of the meat.

So having said that; no, I would not marinade overnight after curing.
You really don't NEED cure in jerky unless you just like the flavor. Jerky dries so fast, no time for the bacteria to get a foothold...especially if you hot smoke it.

 

[whistlepig]

Being in the liquid for 12 hours and the marinade will start to pull out the cure...

The marinade has no cure in it. All the cure is now in the meat. Cure will move from the meat to the marinade to equalize. Now, when the cure hits the marinade, the acid will produce NO2 gas, this reduces the concentration of cure in the marinade, further pulling cure out of the meat.

So having said that; no, I would not marinade overnight after curing.
You really don't NEED cure in jerky unless you just like the flavor. Jerky dries so fast, no time for the bacteria to get a foothold...especially if you hot smoke it.

 

[SmokyMose]

I just use pop's brine, which calls for 1 gallon water, 1 tablespoon cure, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup brown sugar, 1/3 to 1 cup of salt. to need to weigh meat just make the brine and add your meat. just make sure it's submerged. then brine for 1 day for every 1/4 inch of thickness plus 2 days. so if your meat is 2 inches thick you'll brine for 8 days plus two days for a total of 10 days. I never used any wet brines where ya got to weigh the meat but i'm sure someone will chime in with those answers.

I'm a Pop's Brine believer, too. If something's over 2" thick I'll do a few brine injections. I just let it soak for 2 weeks, turning and stirring once. No "calculations".
I thought Pop called for a "heaping" tablespoon of #1...

 

[smokerjim]

I'm a Pop's Brine believer, too. If something's over 2" thick I'll do a few brine injections. I just let it soak for 2 weeks, turning and stirring once. No "calculations".
I thought Pop called for a "heaping" tablespoon of #1...

as far as I know he calls for 1 tablespoon, don't think he mentions heaping but I could be wrong, either way I think you'll be fine though.

 

[SmokyMose]

as far as I know he calls for 1 tablespoon, don't think he mentions heaping but I could be wrong, either way I think you'll be fine though.

I've been using it for about 3 years now so I guess it's OK...
Just curious :-)

 

[Polka]

I recently read it again in my notes -- heaping -- which I take to mean rounded -- no mountains. For a brine, close is good. 1 TBSP works every time. R

 

[johnnyb54]

I just use pop's brine, which calls for 1 gallon water, 1 tablespoon cure, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup brown sugar, 1/3 to 1 cup of salt. to need to weigh meat just make the brine and add your meat. just make sure it's submerged. then brine for 1 day for every 1/4 inch of thickness plus 2 days. so if your meat is 2 inches thick you'll brine for 8 days plus two days for a total of 10 days. I never used any wet brines where ya got to weigh the meat but i'm sure someone will chime in with those answers.

So now I’m confused. Pops brine calls for a tablespoon for a gallon of water. If my meat weighs 5 lbs. I add another teaspoon for a total of 4 teaspoons or approx. 23 grams. This is close to the amount of cure that Ruhlman has in his corned beef recipe. If I use DiggingDogFarms cure calculator (http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html) 1gal. of water (8.34 lbs. or 3782.96 grams) plus 5 lbs. of meat (2268 grams), total grams 6051. When I use 6051 grams in the universal calculator I get 15.1 grams of cure to be used. A difference of 8 grams between DiggingDog and Pops brine/Michael Ruhlman. Am I doing something wrong with the calculator or am I just not comprehending it? Thanks.

 

[smokerjim]

So now I’m confused. Pops brine calls for a tablespoon for a gallon of water. If my meat weighs 5 lbs. I add another teaspoon for a total of 4 teaspoons or approx. 23 grams. This is close to the amount of cure that Ruhlman has in his corned beef recipe. If I use DiggingDogFarms cure calculator (http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html) 1gal. of water (8.34 lbs. or 3782.96 grams) plus 5 lbs. of meat (2268 grams), total grams 6051. When I use 6051 grams in the universal calculator I get 15.1 grams of cure to be used. A difference of 8 grams between DiggingDog and Pops brine/Michael Ruhlman. Am I doing something wrong with the calculator or am I just not comprehending it? Thanks.

I just punched in 6501 grams into diggingdogs and yeah I got 15.1 grams, that's why i use pop's brine no need to weigh anything just make the brine and add your meat. amount of meat doesn't matter as long as it's submerged. i'm not positive but i think pop's uses close to the least amount of cure that is at safe levels for curing. so other recipes might call for a little more. if that's what you are asking.

 

[pc farmer]

I just punched in 6501 grams into diggingdogs and yeah I got 15.1 grams, that's why use pop's brine no need to weigh anything just make the brine and add your meat. amount of meat doesn't matter as long as it's submerged. i'm not positive but i think pop's uses close to the least amount of cure that is at safe levels for curing. so other recipes might call for a little more. if that's what you are asking.

Yeah, you have it right JIm. Pops in on the very low side of cure amount. Digging Dogs uses alittle more cure, still well within the upper limit.

 

[daveomak]

To make a "mathematically" correct brine....
The brine should be 25-50% the weight of the meat and 1 tsp. per 5#'s of brine and meat will give you a ~156 Ppm nitrite content of the meat....
You still inject if over 2" thick meat... and if <2" thick, 7 days per inch of thickness for the brine duration...

 

[indaswamp]

Thanks for posting that Dave. I knew there was a correct ratio of liquid to meat mass, just could remember what it was...